Champagne Widows + Are Expensive Wines Worth It?



Are wines that cost hundreds of dollars per bottle ever worth the price? Does deepening your understanding of wine increase your enjoyment of wine? Who were the young widows who built the famous Champagne houses into top luxury brands? How can you use the butter/lemon test to help with food and wine pairing?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m sharing part two of my interview on the All About Wine podcast with Ron Hunt.

You can find the wines we discussed here.



  • Are high-end wines like Domaine Romanée-Conti worth their price?
  • When is it worth it to go for the $30 bottle of wine instead of the $500 bottle?
  • How does deepening your understanding of wine improve your experience?
  • How can you use the butter/lemon test to help with food and wine pairing?
  • What fascinating stories are behind the Merry Widows of Mousse?
  • How did I develop my interviewing skills?
  • Why is storytelling so important?
  • Why do I embrace the enthusiastic amateur mindset?

Start The Conversation: Click Below to Share These Wine Tips


About All About Wine and Ron Hunt

All About Wine is a weekly call-in talk show dedicated to the wine industry that’s been on the air since 2009. Host Ron Hunt brings his experience and knowledge as a winemaker, cellar master, and vineyardist and tasting expert to the airwaves with special guests from around the world. Always informative and entertaining…it’s All About Wine.




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Thirsty for more?

  • Sign up for my free online wine video class where I’ll walk you through The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!)
  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on, and other country-specific Amazon sites;, and other country-specific iTunes sites; and



Natalie MacLean 0:00
There were a number of widows who built the Champagne houses, which were at their time, France’s top luxury brands. Veuve Clicquot was 28 years old when she lost her husband to the Spanish flu. During the Napoleonic blockades, she managed to get one ship through with her sparkling wine into the Court of Russia to celebrate the birth of the new Tsar, and that’s how fashions were set. They were drinking it in the court, then everybody wanted to drink it and so her wines became a hit in Russia.

Natalie MacLean 0:38
Do you have a thirst to learn about wine, do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places and amusingly awkward social situations? That’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean. And each week, I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle please. And let’s get started.

Welcome to Episode 129. Are wines that cost hundreds of dollars per bottle ever worth the price? Does deepening your understanding of wine increase your enjoyment of it? Who were the young widows who built the famous Champagne houses into top luxury brands? And how can you use the lemon butter test to help you with food and wine pairing? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, we’re carrying on with part two of my conversation with Ron Hunt, host of the terrific All About Wine podcast, who is actually interviewing me. Ron is a winemaker, cellarmaster, vineyardist and tasting expert. You don’t need to have listened to Part One first before this one but I hope you’ll go back if you missed it after you finish this one. In the show notes, you’ll find a full transcript of our conversation, how you can join me in a free online wine and food pairing class, where you can find me on Zoom, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube Live video every Wednesday at 7pm including tonight. That’s all in the show notes at

Now on a personal note, before we dive into the show, I am such a language nerd. I love collecting subject lines, yes, subject lines of emails. I’ve got a whole file folder of them. I’m always on the hunt for those that catch my attention amid all the froth of hundreds of emails that I get every day. So here are some of my favourites lately. Blink and you’ll miss it. Don’t say any of these things. The crush  I never got over. I tried to pause and think what is it about this subject line, about these words, that made me want to open the email. I think wine labels are like that too, especially when we’ve never tasted what’s inside. I’m wondering if you agree, let me know. Okay, on with the show.

Ron Hunt 3:37
You mentioned something about the cost of wine, like Domaine Romanée-Conti. Do you really candidly think that the price of some of these wines that are in the 1000s of dollars, worth it?

Natalie MacLean 3:53
Yes and no.

Ron Hunt 3:55
That’s always my answer too

Natalie MacLean 3:57
Actually,it depends. So as you know, Ron, the price of wine is related to the cost of making it only up to a certain point. Is the vineyard land expensive because it has a Southeast exposure? Did the winemaker cut back the grapes throughout the growing season so therefore, the remaining grapes are fewer, more expensive, but tastier, make better wine. And all of those host of decisions contribute to cost. But after a certain point, I don’t know what the cutoff is, but call it even $50 and way up to the $1000s, then you’re into the intangibles like scarcity, rarity, the winemakers ego, you know, did it go for 1000s of dollars at auction? Is it one of the few bottles left of that vintage? So are they worth it? Bottles that are 1000s of dollars? It’s how you define value for yourself personally.  Of course you have to have the budget, but is the price worth it to you? You know some people will pay for designer haute couture clothing because they want that fine Paris stitching and others don’t care if it’s a knockoff, made in a, you know, tee shirt place or whatever, it’s  of no value. So it’s what is that wine worth to you? And do you find it a value? So that’s the yes or no answer.

Ron Hunt 5:15
Along the same line, people have asked me that question. I always give the same answer. Yes and no. One thing I think you have to consider in there too, is that most people, and I say most people, is that 90% of the people out there that are not super learned in wine and that’s not a slap there, so please, no one, take it as it. But the people who aren’t super learned is the ones that are listening to this programme, listening to your programmes, your podcast, to try to educate themselves. These are the majority of people out there, these people would probably not appreciate the $3,000 bottle of wine, because of the subtle little differences that that has, that they haven’t really experienced and they don’t know what to look for.

Natalie MacLean 6:02
I agree. I agree, Ron, and it’s not a snobby statement at all. You know, I studied dance for 20 years, I trained as a dancer, as I mentioned. So when I watch like a ballet performance, I enjoy it visually like everyone else. But I have a muscular response, you know, when she does a jeté or whatever, entrechat (spectacular jump in ballet), because I’ve had that training. So it hits me on multiple levels, multiple sensory levels, because of my background, or education or training. And I think that’s there when it comes to wine. You definitely can enjoy it on a surface level and all the power to you. But there’s also a deeper layer of enjoyment if you want it and it does take work and paying attention to what you’re drinking and learning about it.

Ron Hunt 6:50
Yeah, I agree with you on that. I tell people that the difference between $100 bottle of wine and a $500 bottle of wine is there, you can definitely tell the difference, if you know what you’re looking for. But if you don’t, then get that $30 bottle of wine, you enjoy that just as much as the $500. But the more you get educated, the more you start reading, the more you start listening to stuff and the more you start looking for different things, then that helps you understand what you’re looking for. And in the long run, it’s going to give you a better understanding of the wine and make better.

Natalie MacLean 7:28
And with my partner Miles, we’ve been together for eight years now. When I met him he was drinking very straightforward, shall we say Australian Shiraz and that was great. Until one night he noticed I was drinking something else. And he goes, What’s that? It’s a Shiraz, but from the Rhone Valley, and he goes, well, I want to try it. And so he quickly abandoned his wine. And he’s been more learned and more expensive ever since. It’s been a journey. Well, I used to put out decoy wines, talk about snobby. It’s like drink this but gradually he caught on that there was something different and now he’s a very expensive date.

Ron Hunt 8:13
But yeah, I have to say my wife is the same way. She was into lighter whites and stuff like that; and when I started to drink more and more reds and all that, whenI  opened up the winery and the reds were getting in there and we brought up some wines from Chile, in particular Carménère, and she just fell in love with that Carménère and now she’s became an advocate of red wines and the Carménères and she’s looking for and she goes, are you tasting the pepperiness in this or? Oh my gosh. Those days are gone, when you go here, just have this.

Natalie MacLean 8:53
Exactly, we can always reminisce.

Ron Hunt 8:55
Right? That’s right. Yeah. But it’s great. And that’s, you know, that’s really what we’re trying to get people out there to do. I mean, the food and wine pairings, trying to get them to try something else besides the ones that they pick up on the bottom shelf or next to the bottom shelf, you know, reach on up to the top two tiers and grab one of those.

Natalie MacLean 9:14
Exactly one of my tips when it comes to food and wine pairing that I meant to mention earlier, but you’ve brought it up again, is would you normally put butter on your food or squeeze of lemon? So if you normally slather butter on, it’s probably a richer dish so look for a richer wine, whether it’s that full body Chardonnay or maybe a Cabernet. You know if you’re slathering butter on your steak, or if you’re going to put a squeeze of lemon on that fish dish then you’re probably looking for something lighter like a Riesling or a Sauvignon Blanc or something that has that sort of acidity that you would find in that squeeze of lemon. So I call it  the butter or lemon test.

Ron Hunt 9:49
That’s a good point. Very good point. Because, you know if you think “Am I going to put butter on this? No.”  Well, then don’t drink something that’s buttery. Yeah, that’s an excellent way to approach it. You mentioned something; tell us about the Merry Widows of Mousse.

Natalie MacLean 10:06
Whoops, yes, the Merry Widows of Mousse, they’re in Red, White and Drunk all Over. So that’s champagne. So as you probably know, Ron, Veuve, Veuve Clicquot , Veuve means widow. And so it was the widow Clicquot. But there were a number of widows who built the famous Champagne houses, which were at their time, France’s top luxury brands. And all of them had these compelling stories at the turn of the century, they had lost their husbands to illness or war. And they stepped up to run these large businesses, or actually they built them into large businesses at a time when women weren’t running companies like this. Veuve Clicquot was 28 years old when she lost her husband to the Spanish flu. She had an eight year old Clementine. And she did amazing things. When her domaine was invaded, and as the troops were sort of leaving the domaine, they were taking some bottles with them. And they were saying, Madame, get the wine back. And she said, No, no, no, they’ll be back. They’ll have a taste, and they’ll be back. First sampling programme. She was amazing, because during the Napoleonic blockades, no ships were getting through. But she managed to get one ship through with all of her sparkling wine into the court of Russia to celebrate the birth of the new Tsar. And that’s how fashions were set back in that day. If they were drinking it in the court, then everybody wanted to drink it. And so her wines became a hit in Russia. And she just had all of these innovations.

Ron Hunt 11:41
Oh, I wasn’t aware of that story; interesting

Natalie MacLean 11:45
And she’s also the one who invented riddling. So that process of turning champagne bottles to get the sludge down into the neck of them; it’s mechanised these days, but back then, she realised if she could clarify the wine from all the particulate, she would have better sales. And so she took her kitchen table, turned it upside down and drilled holes into it and put the bottles in there necks because she knew that it would sort of all float down to the neck and she could get it out that way. She invented riddling, clarifying the wine

Ron Hunt 12:17
Oh, I never knew about riddling, in fact I’ve shared it before, I’ve talked about it on the show before and I don’t know for sure, but are there any champagne houses that still does riddling?

Natalie MacLean 12:29
Some of them do, perhaps for their very, very top tier bottles like Cristal at Louis Roederer. Usually if you go to the champagne houses, they’ll have a few little sample riddling racks. They’re just sort of demonstration riddling, but a lot of it is mechanised, because it’s you know, an eighth of a turn of a bottle, every I don’t know what it is three days, or something. It’s a very, very gradual process and very time consuming. And I’m sure they would have carpal  tunnel syndrome or something

Ron Hunt 13:04
It’s interesting though, it’s an interesting aspect of champagne, riddling and all that it’s something that I’ve shared with people , they don’t understand about this sediment. They still like you say, it’s mechanised now, it’s still being used, but it’s something that needs to be done. And it makes a difference, it really does. Have you ever had a guest that you just like hard to get information out of them?

Natalie MacLean 13:35
Like pulling teeth or something? It was difficult you mean to interview them? And you wouldn’t have said they were forthcoming, shall we say?

Ron Hunt 13:44
I had an interview. And the young man was a nice young man. I talked to him before the show. And he was going to be on the show with me and all that from a winery. I kind of  think the winery was in Kentucky or something; I can’t remember exactly where;  it wasn’t  California, it was in Kentucky. And I say Do you have your own vineyard? “Yes”. What do  you have planted in your vineyard? “Cabernet, Chardonnay, and Riesling”. I mean, it just it was the interview went this way. He answered the questions and he didn’t hesitate. But that’s all he did. And usually when you ask somebody a question, they elaborate, they start telling you. Yeah, we have 20 acres of this, and we do this and you know, they go on and normally in an interview that lasts an hour, I think I went to the whole winery and all the questions I usually ask in 20 minutes. And yeah, I was going  “Do you have anything else?” It’s just No, no. Bye. Bye. Yeah, that was it. But I’m just wondering have you run across interviews like that?

Natalie MacLean 14:55
We sure when I was starting out, definitely. I mean I also host Facebook Live interviews. I’ve done about 80 of those shows on Facebook Live for the last three, four years before starting the podcast. And over time I started studying people who are great at interviewing, not necessarily wine,  like the late great Larry King. And I mean, there’s others like Tim Ferriss in the business world. I listened to them for their techniques, like, how do they get to the question after the question, like somebody will say something? How do they probe further? How are they getting these great stories out of people? And I started formulating some of my own sort of go to questions like, take me to the worst moment of your career, tell me exactly where you were, how did you feel? I mean, it’s not a gotcha interview by any source, because we go to the best moment after that. I’ll even tell them do some thinking on this. Like, I’ll let them know, I’m going to ask, but don’t script it. Let’s just make this a conversation. But that’s what people want of the story. So trying to get away from the yes, no, which is not always easy. But I’m often asking them to paint me a picture and tell me how you are feeling because that’s what we can relate to. What was it like flying that plane over your vineyards? That sort of thing. That’s where people connect. How did it feel? And tell me what was going on? What did you see? What were you smelling? What were you hearing? And then we get a little bit more nuanced and out of the yes/no or Cabernet, Chardonnay? It’s tough because not everybody, you can even get to those stories like but I push.

Ron Hunt 16:42
Yeah. And this young man, no matter what I did, it was, it was one or two word answers. And that was it. And I think I talked to him earlier in the day, it was a couple of days before then when I talked to him then, always before I when I was talking to wineries a lot. I’d always talkd to the people and call them and say, okay, who’s going to be on I say, I’m not going to give you any surprise questions or gotcha questions. So we’re just going to talk and he says, okay, and he was very forthright with me and a very easy conversationalist and all that. And I think maybe knowing that he was on the air, and it’s just like, radio fright or something,

Natalie MacLean 17:25
He went into presenter mode, as opposed to still being conversational. A lot of people think that like, they get stage fright, you know, radio fright, or whatever.

Ron Hunt 17:32
I can understand, you know, I’ve been on radio programmes before, and you sit there and you don’t think that well, X number of people is going to be listening to this, all you think is well, I’m just talking to this person right next to me.

Natalie MacLean 17:42
And that’s exactly the thing. And you do this. So naturally, Ron, but I think people will open up, if you share something about yourself first, because people listen to your show, Ron, and they listen to Unreserved Wine Talk for me, not just for the guests, but to listen to us. And that’s not meant in the big ego sense. But you’re the continuity factor for your show. And they want to learn more about you as much as they want to learn about the guests. So I find sometimes if I tell my own story, it doesn’t have to be something long. But that guests will resonate with that. And it becomes more of a conversation and they open up. But that’s been hard for me because I like to hide behind the questions. I’m an introvert at heart. And I’d rather just go down my list of questions.

Ron Hunt 18:32
You haven’t presented yourself here, you opened up quite well. You’ve been a very enjoyable guests tonight, because you have opened up and you’ve told us things about yourself and different stuff that is enjoyable. And that’s, I think, is what you’re looking for in a guest; someone who knows what they’re talking about, and shares it but doesn’t dominate. And I think that can be off putting.

Natalie MacLean 19:02
Yeah, exactly. It has to be a give and take; back and forth. And one thing that I used to be afraid of when I started interviewing folks on Facebook and on the podcast was ours can be a very technical field, and there’s so many things you can get wrong. And I used to be afraid of looking stupid and thinking people are going to think “Well, what does she know she’s been, even after writing about wine for 20 years, she’s still getting that appellation wrong?”. But you have to just forget that and move on. Because I try to maintain the mindset; I’ll always be an enthusiastic amateur, I’m always learning,  correct me if I’m wrong, like I’m not going to veer away from a question because I’m afraid that you know, I’m going to mispronounce something or I’m going to get the year wrong or something. I’ll just say, hey, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think it was, you know, 1953, whatever and so forth. You have to get past your own ego.

Ron Hunt 19:56
I don’t worry; I mispronounce regions and names and I don’t know any other languages except English. And when you put some of these French places in front of me, or even Spanish or Italian, I pronounce them wrong. And I know I do, and

Natalie MacLean 20:14
Its all these different languages coming in to wine and so of course,

Ron Hunt 20:17
I don’t worry about it. I just say I’m going to destroy this name. And then I’m pronouncing it the way I suppose it. And every once in a while I say it right

Natalie MacLean 20:28
There you go , and I think because of that you make yourself more identifiable. We don’t identify with cold hard perfection, we identify with flaws that other people, you know,

Ron Hunt 20:37
I’m no good at names.

Ron Hunt 20:44
Maybe that’s it. Mike, do you have any questions for Natalie here?

Unknown 20:52 Hold on a second.

Ron Hunt 20:53
I know Mike’s there. See, Mike is always texting. And he’s always sending out all sorts of stuff. And he’s making notes and doing all sorts of stuff all the time. And so when I ask him I always catch him off guard, and he’s

Unknown Speaker 21:06
Sorry, I just got off of Amazon, somewhere between March 4 and March 11 I’ll be receiving Red, White and Drunk all Over.

Natalie MacLean 21:14
That’s great.

Unknown Speaker 21:16
I read the reviews on Amazon, and they’re fantastic. 320 pages. I can’t wait to get it. I mean, just just looking at some of the reviews, it’s like, this is going to be great. So I can’t wait for that. After it arrives and then I can read it and do a little you know, this is what I read and all that kind of stuff. But it was great. That’s the guide that you mentioned earlier. Picked that up and looking at that. Very nice. Thank you very much. And not just enjoy. Oh $397 in Canadian is $314 in US.

Natalie MacLean 21:49
30%. What a deal.

Unknown Speaker 21:53
Absolutely. Fantastic. So yeah. Yeah, it’s been great. So I can’t wait for the book.

Natalie MacLean 21:59
Thanks Mike, that’s very kind of you.

Ron Hunt 22:01
Yeah, Mike is my engineer. He’s a co-host and engineer. We say something like, I want to how much that exchange is? And Mike will say, it’s $314. He just you know, he

Natalie MacLean 22:12
He does mental math

Ron Hunt 22:22
Yeas he does, mental Google Math

Natalie Maclean 22:27
It is what we all do

Ron Hunt 22:30
Yeah, thank goodness for the computers. So well, while we’re on the show, when would you like me as a guest?,

Natalie MacLean 22:41
Oh, whenever you have availability, I space out my guests just so I can research them thoroughly Ron

Ron Hunt 22:51
You don’t need to research me; you’ve found out everything. This is me.

Natalie MacLean 22:53
Yeah, but I’ll send you a calendar invite because right now I’m looking kind of at the end of March, early April, but we can take a day that works for both of us. Yeah, we’re on the same timezone. So that’s cool.

Ron Hunt 23:04
Yeah, really, although you’re a million miles north and tundra weather and

Natalie MacLean 23:10
yeah, yeah, here in the snowy north. The Great White North.

Ron Hunt 23:14
The Great White north. Yeah. We are blessed down here in Florida. This is nice weather for us right now. This is the time of year when visitors from your area come down here. And they go, oh my gosh, this is so beautiful, I love Florida and then they go home, sell their house and move down here. And then summer comes and they go oh my gosh. I hate Florida

Natalie MacLean 23:41
We have gone to Florida every year. We haven’t gone this year sadly. But we go to Naples. We love Naples.

Ron Hunt 23:47
Oh yeah, down the coast.  The beach,yeah. Yeah, the restaurants.

Natalie MacLean 23:53
Yeah, the restaurants too. Everything is so nice.

Ron Hunt 23:54
Yeah, Naples is great for restaurants; it’s a really nice area. St. Pete Beach was just named by TripAdvisor the number one beach in America. That was quite a coup for  St. Pete beach. They were number two last year and they were named number one by TripAdvisor this year so

Natalie MacLean 24:17
well, did they add more sand? How did they climb up there in the rankings?

Ron Hunt 24:21
I think what they did was they take into account traffic and all that stuff and this last year there was no traffic. It helped boost them up that little extra couple of points they needed to move to number one, so

Natalie MacLean 24:36
Well congrats St Pete. We will raise a glass

Ron Hunt 24:37
Yes, we will raise a glass for everything. Good thing for St. Pete beach. But we have a lot of nice beaches here though. So that’s just one of many in the area. Like Naples is another. So Natalie, anything else you’d like to talk about or bring up? Tell us again, your website and all the good stuff that everyone can find on that website. And so tell us again about the free guide that you’re offering for all the All About Wine listeners and all that good stuff, if you will.

Natalie MacLean 25:12
Thank you, Ron. That’s very kind. So I hope everyone will listen to Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, because obviously, you’re already an audio listener so I would welcome more ears. As you mentioned, my website is kind of the hub where you’ll find everything, Get the free guide,

Ron Hunt 25:38
So you get a prize for listening to All About Wine this week. So that’s cool. So thank you, Natalie. It was you very enjoyable. It’s a great conversation. And I’m looking forward to being on your show. So we can continue to talk, you know, I mean about what wine does, doesn’t it? It brings us to this.

Natalie MacLean 26:04
We go down the rabbit hole and we come back up. And we go down another one. But it’s been such a pleasure, Ron, I really enjoyed chatting with you. And Mike, nice to meet you. And thank you for getting the book.

Unknown Speaker 26:16
Very enjoyable. I can’t wait to read it.

Ron Hunt 26:19
And I will be emailing you. And we’ll get something set up for round the first of April. And I look forward to being a guest on your programme.

Natalie MacLean 26:32
All right, Ron. Awesome. Look forward to it.

Unknown Speaker 26:36
Have a good night.

Natalie MacLean 26:38
Okay, cool. Good night for now, and I hope something great is in your glass tonight or this week.

Ron Hunt 26:43
Thank you. You also.

Natalie MacLean 26:46
Okay Cheers. Okay. Perfect.

Ron Hunt 26:55
What is this caller mic is dropped? Did you leave me for a while?

Unknown Speaker 27:01
I sure did. I was reading the PDF file from her website. I still have it open actually; the wine and food pairing that you get as a template. And I was going through that and all of a sudden, I go, Oops, Oh, don’t tell me. I thought you disconnected because I didn’t hear anything. And I thought that’s the wrong thing. And no, I looked up and I read the little bar at the top of the studio thing. It says caller mic has dropped

Ron Hunt 27:27
I wasn’t even on the studio. I was on the emails that she sent us because that’s where all the information is and everything. So I was on that. And I never saw this and I come back here to the studio and I’m going you left me.

Unknown Speaker 27:42
But we stayed connected to Facebook and blogs and radio obviously didn’t cut out. I don’t know. I’m not doing too much. I was going to have a couple of you know, the website, I was looking up Unreserved Wine Talk. Her podcast, Unreserved Wine Talk, folks, check it out. It’s pretty much everywhere. It’s on Apple. It’s on There’s mention of it on, Stitcher, Tune in, which is a great app. I listen to a lot of stations on Tune In, Spotify, Google. I think Google Play has something on there as well., Shes out there.

Ron Hunt 28:24
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So check it out. She’s got a lot of formats. And then, if you can’t find her on any of these other formats to just go to, and it will connect you to just about everything that she’s doing, too. So there’s all kinds of good information on our website, for sure, also search Amazon. I’m sure she is also with book wise. Search for her on Amazon. And you’ll find her book. She has another one on there. And I was looking into that as well. I’m going to try this one. And 320 pages, I’m a slow reader so by

Ron Hunt 28:55
14 July.

Unknown Speaker 28:57
Morning. Oh, no, I’m yyears. You’re not going for a walk. If there’s any photos or something? I hope not. But it’s okay. But that’ll extend it. Ooh pictures! Okay.

Unknown Speaker 29:19
It was cheap for the paperback. I mean, like five bucks or something. Not better. 300 pages. And the reviews were fantastic. So it’s like, Yeah, why not? You know? Sure. I’ll do that .She’s got another one on there.

Ron Hunt 29:36
That one? I don’t know. That’s A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines, sort of what she says. She goes into regions and tells you buys which regions would be good. I mean, your people out there who want to try some Italian wines or find out what the prices are, this would be a good way to approach it here. So

Unknown Speaker 29:55
yeah, that would be some really good reading out there. So go to Amazon and search for her name Natalie MacLean. Like Ron said, go to our website. But lots of books out there, they’re very affordable and like a really good read. So check them out

Ron Hunt 30:10
I’m going to have to visit and grab myself one copy of it. Very good, her gift to All About Wine readers too, y’all could download that. That’s a nice, nice little thing on wine and food pairings, I’m always talking about wine and food pairings. In fact, Jim McLaughlin, and his books, his online books talk a little bit about wine and food pairings. So these are good companion things. I mean, you don’t have to be exclusive to one author or something like this. But all these together, you can make up yourself a quite comprehensive overview of what you’re trying to pair up and all that. I was really impressed, I think more than anything about her site , let me find it here again, the mobile app, that’s something else. If you’re out shopping for wines and stuff like this. This is a barcode reader and an optical front label scanner. It has notes, it has a place you can take notes, that oh, I really love this wine, look for this again and pull it up and put it, I mean, it’s just very comprehensive mobile app for you there. So use Jim McLaughlin sites, and then put it with this and you’re set. You’re set for just about anything you want to eat or drink. Yeah, this mobile app, this is another like I said, you pair this with the Jim Mclaughlin books, and you’ve got yourself just about everything you need there for wine and food pairings. Good, good. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 32:00
Thanks for being on with us today.

Ron Hunt 32:04
We really, you know, thank you, Natalie. That was that was fine. It was interesting. I enjoyed it.

Unknown Speaker 32:07
And we have no guest next week, but we will be back live for the next two weeks we’re on at 7pm until the time changes, and then we’re on at 7pm after that.

Ron Hunt 32:21
That’s right. There you go. Yeah. We’re on at 7pm EDT  and then we’re on at 7 pm Eastern Standard Time. And then after the 14th we’ll be on at 7pm Eastern Daylight Time,EDT., which is now EST. And then it becomes EDT. Right, which and all the people who are not confused are now.

Unknown Speaker 32:46
Which is the intent. Not about wine. But everything else was about the time you know, that’s one of the easy things to do. Ron, will be back next week with some updates, news and general wine conversation. And thank you for joining us. Have a great week and drink wine and drink wine and check out all night for this thing.

This concludes tonight’s broadcast of All About Wine with your host Ron. For show information go  to All About Wine on Twitter and Facebook. Visit the show website at www.allaboutwine. Archived shows are available for download on iTunes or on our show [email protected]/allaboutwine. Thank you for listening. Drink responsibly. And we’ll see you next time on All About Wine.

Natalie MacLean 33:57
Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed Part Two of my chat with Ron Hunt. In the show notes, you’ll find a link to the full transcript of our conversation, how you can join me in a free online wine and food pairing class, where you can find me on Zoom, Insta, Facebook and YouTube Live video every Wednesday at 7pm. That’s all in the show notes at

You won’t want to miss next week when I chat with Zach Geballe, the host and producer of the VinePair podcast. Zach is a wine writer, educator, and certified sommelier based in Seattle. He has some terrific tasting tips and stories to share with you.

In the meantime, if you missed Episode 37 go back and take a listen. I chat with Tilar Mazzeo, who wrote a marvellous book about Veuve Clicquot.  I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Unknown Speaker 34:57
and some girlfriends and I agree that Veuve Clicquot is our favourite Champagne and so we used to get together and drink a bottle of  it and have our husbands drive us home. We were talking one day and I remembered that Veuve in French is widow and it really started with a question where I said, well, was there really a widow Clicquot and ended up doing research and found this amazing story about a woman who not only became history’s first international businesswoman, but who invented a process which I know we talked about a little bit called remuage (riddling) that is still used in the wine industry today. And it was really the thing that moved Champagne from being a luxury product that was so expensive that only the kings and queens of France could afford it, to a luxury product that those of us who are lucky to have a weekend can take a sip of.

Natalie MacLean 35:48
If you liked this episode, please tell one friend about it this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in the tips that I shared. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a glass of Champagne.

Natalie MacLean 36:14
You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full body bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Meet me here next week. Cheers!