Detecting Wine Aromas with Candy + Go South for Value with Lori Budd



Which candy-based trick can you use to teach yourself new flavors and aromas? What makes discovering a bargain wine more exciting than luxury wine? What does the tip “go south” mean when it comes to hidden values in wine?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m being interviewed by Lori Budd, winemaker, writer and host of the Exploring The Wine Glass podcast.

You can find the wines we discussed here.


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  • What makes finding an amazing bargain wine even more exciting than an expensive wine?
  • Why you should consider going south on your search for a new great wine to try?
  • How do food and wine elevate each other when paired well?
  • Why do I prefer to pair food with wine versus the other way around?
  • What is my favourite food and wine pairing?
  • Which candy-based trick can you use to teach yourself new flavours and aromas?
  • How can you pair wine and chocolate without ending in disaster?
  • What makes technology and wine a perfect pairing?
  • How do my website wine tools and mobile apps make choosing and pairing wine easy?
  • Which luxury wine would I wish to have if I were stranded on a desert island?
  • Why do I love podcasting?
  • Lori’s Opposites Game


Start The Conversation: Click Below to Share These Wine Tips


About Lori Budd

Lori Budd began her career as a microbiologist, but her need for excitement led her into Adventure Education, teaching students how to rock climb, zip line and tie those all important survival knots. Along the way, she fell in love with wine and graduated from the prestigious UC Davis enology program, along with certifications from a number of other wine programs. She and her husband, Michael, own Dracaena Wines in Paso Robles. She’s consumed by the stories that unfold as each glass is poured, and shares those in her award-winning blog and podcast called Exploring the Glass.




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Thirsty for more?

  • Sign up for my free online wine video class where I’ll walk you through The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!)
  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on, and other country-specific Amazon sites;, and other country-specific iTunes sites; and



Natalie MacLean 0:00
I’m a wine cheapskate at heart. There’s a thrill of the hunt when you can find a wine that tastes twice as much as it cost. Like if you go to a discount warehouse outlet store and you find a Versace jacket that’s 10% of its original cost. And one of my biggest tips that came out of that book was go south. So a lot of the bad your name regions in many countries are expensive. So if you think Tuscany and Piedmont if you go south, you’re going to get deals from Sicily. Even in California, Napa and Sonoma. Go south to Paso Robles or Santa Cruz and you’re going to find much more affordable wines.

Natalie MacLean 0:46
Do you have a thirst to learn about wine, the love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places and amusingly awkward social situations. That’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie Maclean. And each week, I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle please. And let’s get started. Welcome to Episode 197. Which candy based trick can you use to teach yourself about new flavours and aromas in wine? What makes discovering a bargain wine more exciting than a luxury wine? And what does the tip go south mean when it comes to finding hidden values? You’ll hear those tips and stories in Part Two of my chat with Lori Budd. Winemaker, writer and host of the Exploring The Wineglass podcast. Lori is actually interviewing me. And you don’t have to have listened to Part One from last week first, but I hope you’ll go back if you missed it after you finish this one. Now on a personal note, before we dive into the show with the continuing story of publishing my new wine memoir Wine Witch on Fire: Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Defamation, and Drinking Too Much. I’m continuing on with things I’m looking for in the copy editing phase from my book as these might be helpful to you in your own writing, whatever the medium. So I’m looking to get rid of words that end in L Y. They are the enemy. These are usually adverbs modifying a wimpy verb. So for example, she closed the door forcefully. Close to weak. Change it to she slammed the door and then you’ve gotten rid of the L Y wimpy verb or adjective. I’m also trying to paint a picture in my mind when I write a scene. There are many questions I asked myself, but one would be how would the light be hitting someone: with the evening rays be creating an amber halo around his hair, or with the morning sunlight be illuminating every feature on his face? It helps the reader visualize as well. That’s some tips to share on how you improve your writing. Let me know I’ve posted a link to a blog post called Diary of a Book Launch in the show notes at This is where I share more behind the scenes stories about the journey of taking this memoir from idea to publication. If you want a more intimate insider seat beside me on this journey, please let me know that you’d like to become a beta reader and get a sneak peek at the manuscript. Email me at Natalie@Natalie Okay, on with the show.

Lori Budd 3:58
Now, your second book again, you know you’re taking it so seriously. Unquenchable:  A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines. So that is very important, because not everybody can enjoy that Cristal.

Natalie MacLean 4:14
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And really Lori, I’m a wine cheapskate at heart. So you know the best wine is the one somebody else bought for you. But there’s a thrill of the hunt when you can find a wine that tastes twice as much as it cost. Like, you know, anybody can splashed down a lot of money. Well, some people can for whatever Cristal or whatever you’re drinking. But to me, it’s like the thrill of the hunt. Like if you go to a discount warehouse outlet store and you find a Versace jacket. That’s 10% off its original cost. It’s like there’s a story there. I found this jacket it fit. And I only paid 10%. There’s something thrilling about that. Yeah, you can find the values. Yeah, so I’m always on the hunt. And I think a lot of our listeners readers want to enjoy wine but you know don’t have a trust fund and so finding those undiscovered gems is part of that. And one of my biggest tips that came out of that book was go south. So a lot of the brand name regions in many countries are expensive so if you think Northern Italy you know Tuscany and Piedmont, if you go south, you’re going to get deals from Sicily. Even in California, Napa and Sonoma go sells to Paso Robles or Santa Cruz or wherever and you’re going to find much more affordable wines.

Lori Budd 5:35
I actually have never thought about that but that is so true. Like as you’re talking my brain is going through the different countries and it is. You are absolutely

Natalie MacLean 5:43
Like France. Bordeaux, Burgundy go south. Languedoc, Provence. You are gonna pay a lot less.

Lori Budd 5:49
Wow, that is a right there folks worthy right there. That’s the worthy tip of the day. Holy cow.

Natalie MacLean 5:57
Well, that’s your region too. Paso Robles, a spectacular wines and, you know, quality I think. Underpriced compared to Napa and Sonoma.

Lori Budd 6:06
Just a bit, just a bit. Yes, I have some friends up north that keep telling me I should increase the price of our wines. And I’m like, No, I don’t need to charge my customers $95 for my bottle. Like, right, to me that’s insane.

Natalie MacLean 6:26
Well thank you. Thank you for your service, Lori.

Lori Budd 6:29
That’s a little bit crazy. That you know what, on the other hand, kudos to them if they’re getting it, too. It’s just how you approach your business sense I guess, you know. Sure. That is a excellent tip. And so spot on that I have never even thought about that. But absolutely go south. And Sicily. Etna. Love it. Love it.

Natalie MacLean 6:50
Yes. Beautiful, beautiful island.

Lori Budd 6:53
So also I’m going to make you blush eventually. I’m going to keep trying.

Unknown Speaker 6:59
I got makeup on. Don’t worry, you’ve done it.

Lori Budd 7:02
So the James Beard four times! I don’t know, that sounds like a record to me. I don’t think anybody has won the James Beard four times. You’ve got the MFK Fisher Award, and the Bert Greene awards. And these are all culinary related awards. So obviously you have a deep affection for food. So how do you describe that food and wine relationship?

Natalie 7:29
So I think like great partnerships, all great partnerships, they elevate each other. You know, who is it Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers that’s often brought up, peanut butter and jelly, ice cream and chocolate sauce. I think wine and food when you’ve got a great match gives you this sensory cloud of pleasure that you would not get with just the wine alone or just the food alone. It is the interaction or the interplay of all the taste, the texture, the weight. And I think there’s something that also happens in that you don’t satiate out so early of the wine or the food if you’re just having those on their own. It’s like when we put on perfume. At first it’s a strong, you could smell the perfume, but then you become oblivious to the perfume. But what happens in food and wine as if you keep alternating? It’s like a reminder. Oh, yeah, there’s that food taste. Oh, yeah, there’s that wine taste. It doesn’t fade into the background. It’s a sensory playground that continues longer in the partnership.

Lori Budd 8:31
I always think of, and people laugh at me, but Ratatouille. Have you seen Ratatouille?

Natalie 8:38
Yes, that movie. Yes. It’s adorable cartoon little rat who’s a chef.

Lori Budd 8:42
Who’s a chef. And anyone can cook, right? That’s the whole motto of it. Anyone can cook. But the scene where he is trying to teach his brother what food is really, right. And he take gives them a little piece of the strawberry. And the brother’s like, yeah yeah yeah. And then he gives them a little piece of cheese. And he was like yeah yeah yeah, and it’s got like music notes going up. But then he takes the strawberry and the cheese and he puts them both in and a symphony comes together or you know.

Natalie MacLean 9:14
Rhat’s a great example. I love that.

Lori Budd 9:16
I absolutely love that movie from start to finish. But that scene of him trying to explore what food or teach what food can do is an amazing scene. Love it. One of my favourite movies. Most of my favourite movies are cartoons. There’s so much more than meets the eye to these cartoons. I tell you.

Natalie 9:37
Absolutely. Many levels.

Lori Budd 9:40
So that brings me to when you’re cooking dinner, right? So we spoke previously and I said that I’m not really a foodie. I could appreciate food, but there’s a lot of foods I don’t eat. So that’s why I’m a boring food person. But when you’re cooking a meal, do you start with the wine and then say this is the meal I’m going to make with this wine. Or do you start with the food and then say yeah I think this is the wine that’s gonna go with it.

Natalie MacLean 10:09
So I am a wine first kind of gal, just like I buy earrings or shoes first and then find an outfit that will accommodate. I’m gonna sound like some frivolous shopper who just spends her days at outlet stores. But fortunately my partner, Miles, he is a great cook. I don’t cook I pull corks. And he’s very adaptable in many aspects of our relationship. So I will pull out a wine and say what can you make that will go with this? And yeah, he’s very good at doing that.

Lori Budd 10:38
So wine first. All right, okay. And, you know, that is a skill I think. You know these chefs they’re doing a wine tasting dinner, and they’re tasting the wine and they just create quite the thing. And we know that there’s those basic rules of what goes with what, you know, and things like that. But the way they can explore it, it’s a skill. It’s a skill. Kudos to Miles. Good job. So what is your favourite pairing?

Natalie 11:07
Well. Pinot Noir with more Pinot Noir.

Natalie MacLean 11:11
Pinot with veal or any dish that doesn’t overwhelm the Pinot because it really is the star of the meal for me and it’s my go to wine. So yeah, I would say like and I do love cool climate California Pinot. Of course we have lots of great pianos here in Canada, and Burgundy if somebody else is buying Of course.

Lori Budd 11:29
Yes, there you go. So, I have a little funny story of Pinot. When we first started getting into wine and we would go visit Napa, Sonoma and you know, the Carneros and things like that. And we would taste Pinot and every single time I tasted Pinot, I’m like, I don’t like this. There’s something wrong. Like not wrong wrong, but like to my palate. There’s something wrong with it. No, I don’t like this one. Sure. And tasting it. You know, my husband likes Pinot and he would like try to sneak one in and go and I’m like, no, no, no, I don’t like it like tasting it. I didn’t know I was tasting Pinot. I’m like, no, no, I don’t like it. There’s something weird. That’s all. That’s all I kept saying weird, weird, weird. And as we got into wine and we really started learning how to appreciate wine and start doing a little those wine descriptors going on. What I realized was every time I said, ooh weird, people said strawberry. And I am deathly allergic to strawberry. Okay, so now just for people who are listening, strawberries are not in wine unless you’re drinking strawberry wine okay. There is the flavour of strawberry. But because I’m definitely allergic to strawberry, my brain didn’t know what that was. Yes. It just was weird. I had no way of describing what I was tasting. Because my brain doesn’t know strawberry, right? And once I was able to say, oh, it’s that weird thing again. Okay, I can now say that’s strawberry. I still don’t really know what a strawberry tastes like. But my brain has now been remapped to recognize that sensation or that taste to be strawberry. And now I love Pinot.

Natalie 13:23
You can reassure your brain you’re not going to die of anaphylactic shock or whatever it was.

Lori Budd 13:27
I don’t know what it is. So every time I tasted it, all I could say is no it’s a weird taste. I don’t know, you know. And the scientist in me my brain was remapped to learn was a different way of learning what a strawberry was because my palate doesn’t know what a strawberry is. Because I don’t remember what I taste because I’m too busy shooting myself up with something, you know. That’s fascinating. That’s why today when people tell me Well, how do you know what this tastes like with this tastes like, one of  favourite things to tell them to do is because I’m cheap, you can go to a Whole Foods or Trader Joe’s and go buy all those funky little fruits that are out there and taste what they all tastes like so that your palate learns what it is. But that’s probably going to add up to quite a bit. But I always tell them go to Jelly Belly and go pick out jelly beans of all the different flavours that Jelly Belly has. And then taste the Jelly Bean and that will tell you. Because I mean that’s the flavour right.

Natalie 14:33
That’s true. And even though the jelly beans are sweet if you were eating them and then breathing out the retro nasal right, you’ll get that aroma sense of you know, apart from the sugar of whether it’s you know, hot pepper or whatever it is. That’s a great idea.

Lori Budd 14:46
Yeah, that’s my Pinot story. And, you know, it does confuse some people. So I always preface it no, there’s no strawberries in there. I was not having an allergic reaction. It’s just your brain. And being the scientist that I am that always is an incredible thing and it teaches you you can remap your brain. You can always teach a dog new tricks.

Natalie MacLean 15:10
Or to drink Pinot Noir. But you’re right like and you’re the scientists you do better. But like Pinots will have molecular structures that mimic the molecular structure in strawberries. So it’s not strawberry, but it’s going to smell or taste like strawberry. And obviously your brain was picking that up going warning, danger, danger.

Lori Budd 15:26
Yeah, just I don’t know what it is. That was the only word I can say, though, there’s something weird in this. And at the very beginning, people were thinking I was saying it was corked. No, no, it’s just weird. But listening to other people taste, which is another great I think another great tip for people who are learning wine. (A) don’t be afraid to say what you taste, but (B) listen to what other people are saying and try to correlate to what you’re getting, you know. You’re training your palate. Yes. Just like you have to lift weights to get muscles. You got to lift wine to train that palate. It’s a lot of work. But it’s worth absolutely, absolutely. So now I have to go to the opposite. What is your most disasterous pairing?

Natalie 16:09
Right. So I had always heard that you could pair full bodied reds with chocolate. And my big mistake was not picking up full bodied enough Cabernet and then doing milk  chocolate, which was just it was gross. It was really gross. But later I learned that not only does say fortified wines do they work better, like Port or whatever, Sherry, but you need to get the darkest chocolate you can find if you want to be nice to your wine. So the reason is that dark chocolate, it has the least amount of sugar, the least amount of dairy content versus milk chocolate, which has a lot more. And those things are very, very mean to wine. And so the combination didn’t work. And thank God I wasn’t doing it like on Valentine’s Day or whatever. I would have ruined the evening, but it was like, oh, this is just gross. The chocolate was making the wine tastes metallic or something, something weird. But I learned. I was scarred but I learned.

Lori Budd 17:09
But it’s a memory you will always remember.

Unknown Speaker 17:12
Oh, yeah. Gross.

Lori Budd 17:14
Milk chocolate if you think about it. It’s take a glass of milk and then take a glass of wine or a sip of wine.

Unknown Speaker 17:21
Yeah, just don’t do it.

Lori Budd 17:22
Yeah, a big stop sign needs to be on that you know.

Natalie 17:26
Exactly, a warning. A wine bottle should come with a warning, don’t do milk chocolate.

Lori Budd 17:29
Yes, yes, absolutely. I like it. So let’s talk about your website. Because it is the largest wine review site based in Canada. You actually have more than 3.2 million visitors a year, and you have over 300,000 people signed up for your newsletter. So obviously, people recognize that you are a fantastic source for wine. How did the website come about? And how do you manage that?

Natalie 18:02
By the way, my mom’s gonna love this podcast, Lori. She’ll be checking off her little list. Anyway, so I started the website in the Palaeolithic Era of websites at least in the wine industry. I started one in 2000 when there weren’t a lot. But I came from high tech. And I just think websites and social media and mobile apps, they work really well with wine even though you think oh my gosh, you know, technology. That’s new stuff. Wine and that’s kind of old, traditional. But wine, it has so much information attached to it. Each bottle, you know, that can have like 30 pieces of info. So if you really want to take a deep dive technology is your friend. If the user interface, you know, the design is friendly and not confusing. So with the website, one of the first things I did was to create food and wine pairing tools. So they’re there to this day, and I’m always updating them. But you can start with a wine or start with a food. Let’s say you start with a food. I’m having roast chicken. It will take you through, through an interactive little matcher there. Okay, you could try Chardonnay, etc. And then you can narrow down to what type of Chardonnay, like what type of style. And then it’ll take you to the next screen which would be my latest reviews of that style of Chardonnay. And then you can go another screen, which stores have this Chardonnay in stock right now? So it’s on the mobile apps as well. But it takes you from start to finish. Or you can say I already have this Chardonnay, what dishes should I be considering? So I just think technology, if it’s harnessed, can be our friend when it comes to wine, which can be so overwhelming. Technology can pinpoint the answers we need or the bottles or the wines we want.

Lori Budd 19:48
That’s incredible to be able to go to one site and do that. And then. I mean, I’m good with computers like I’m usually the person in the family and the friends were like how do I do this? Like programmes, I’m great at working out programmes. But on that tail end, that coding to make that programme. Like, I’m happy when I can put a box around the text on my blog, you know. I HTML’ed that. Or have flashing text, woo hooo. You know, of course, it took me 10 hours to do that, but I did it. Like, that’s incredible to have all that in one resource. But that’s got to be mind blowing on the back end.

Natalie 20:34
Yeah, fortunately, I have excellent web developer. So I’m not doing the coding, thank goodness, because I would be making a mess of it. But he’s fabulous. And he’s been with me for like, more than 15 years. So it’s a good partnership.

Lori Budd 20:46
And it’s constantly being updated, which is phenomenal. Now, there’s free access, and there’s a paywall and free access. So what’s the difference between those two?

Natalie 20:59
So I’d say 98% of the content is free, like all the articles, the pairing tools, the mobile apps, etc. So what I charge for, and it’s a subscription of about $3 a month, is my wine reviews from the last 20 days. So the most recent wine reviews and after that, as they age out 21 days and older, they’re free and open access. So that’s the subscription, the paywall part. It’s just those last 20 days of reviews.

Lori Budd 21:26
And that’s only $3 a month. Oh, my goodness. That’s like not even a Starbucks.

Unknown Speaker 21:33
Yes, I’d like to compare it.

Lori Budd 21:35
That’s not even a single glass of wine.

Natalie 21:38
That’s true. Not these days. No, that’s a sample taster. That’s a taster. Anyway.

Lori Budd 21:44
That’s a taster. We just were in Santa Cruz. And when we go on vacation, we kind of do some beer tasting also. And we were blown away by the price of the beers. Like it was nine bucks for a pint of beer now. So we need to get the cost things down a bit. It’s insane. It’s going up. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So this is incredible,  so can you just tell what is the website because that is a phenomenal resource.

Natalie 22:10
Sure. It’s my name, which can be spelled a whole lot of ways, but it’s Natalie McLean. So it’s N A T A L I E  M A C L E A N If you Google Natalie and wine I think I’ll come up.

Lori Budd 22:25
It will come up. It will come up. Trust me, it will come up. And then your podcast because you obviously have so much spare time on your hands. Why not? Your podcast is Unreserved Wine Talk. And so I am honoured to have been a guest on.

Natalie 22:45
So you were fabulous. The stories you told. Terrific interview.

Lori Budd 22:49
Thank you. So when did you get into podcasting? Because you are way ahead of the game with the website. Were you ahead of the game with the podcast?

Natalie MacLean 22:57
I had tried back in 2008. But the tools weren’t available. It was just painful. Like, you know, the tools we have today make it so much easier. So I wasn’t as early an adopter of podcasting. I got into it in 2018. And yeah, it’s weekly and absolutely love it because most of my episodes are interviews like yours. And it allows me to be nosy and impertinent and, especially as an introvert, I get to ask questions I would never ask at a dinner party. Like you know, what’s your best failure? And what did you learn from it? It’s like you can’t blurt that out over dinner. It’s like what? You could Lori, you’re an extrovert. Me, I just sit there quietly during dinner and hope somebody asked me a question.

Lori Budd 23:46
Well, you can ask it. Might not go over so well. But you can ask it, trust me.

Natalie MacLean 23:51
Yeah, someone’s needs to be cut off. Stop asking those questions.

Lori Budd 23:56
That’s the benefit of being an extrovert. When you’re an extrovert, nobody knows when you’ve had too much. Because you’re just always that way. So there’s really no difference.

Unknown Speaker 24:09
Yeah, they know when I’ve woken up. It’s like, okay. She’s back. Anyway.

Lori Budd 24:15
All right. So being an introvert, I don’t know if this is a good thing for an introvert or a bad thing. But if you were stranded on a deserted island, and you could only have one wine. So I’ll give you the benefit. One variety. One variety. Doesn’t only have to be one wine.  One variety, but unlimited supply. You can’t get off of the island and you’re like Gilligan’s Island. You can get all this stuff. You can have radios, you can have all this thing, but you can’t get off that island.

Natalie 24:45
That sound like heaven for an introvert. I love it. No more people. No, I’m kidding.

Lori Budd 24:49
Unlimited wine variety. What variety would it be?

Natalie MacLean 24:53
Let it’s so easy. Domaine Romanée Conti from Burgundy, which is a Pinot Noir and yeah it’s pricey. But since there has an unlimited supply and budget. That’s awesome. I’m good to go. I’ll see you in 20 years.

Lori Budd 25:06
It just keep dropping down those cases, no exactly.

Natalie 25:11
No need for a rescue actually. Just leave me here. I’m good.

Lori Budd 25:15
Alright, so Pinot Noir and a very specific Pinot Noir. Okay. Yes. Now I have not had that, but I will have to try. Tell me about that one because I know nothing about that. So I know Burgundy but.

Natalie 25:28
Yeah, so that was in Red, White and Drunk All Over as well. I got to taste that. And again, people say how do you get to taste all these? It’s because of the readers I bring with me. It’s not me. I’m not special. They know, especially with these tasting rooms that are not open to the public, they know that I’m bringing with me the audience who’s going to read the book or listen to the podcast or whatever. So I got to taste Domaine Romanée Conti with the owner and winemaker Aubert de Villaine. And he actually made me do a blind tasting guessing game, which was really daunting, unnerving. And we went down to the wine cellar, or the library of old bottles, and they were all cobwebby and the only thing I noticed is they seem to start in the early 1900s and then go up to current day. And so he said, turn around. And so I was turning around, but I noticed he was starting to pull from the middle section. Like, okay, I’m turned.

Natalie MacLean 26:26
So I thought, Oh, he’s probably somewhere in the middle. Anyway, I had to guess. I said, ah, 1950s. He said, very good. And then I thought, now nothing’s going to help me now. Because I thought, oh, roughly middle. And I wanted to say something like, well, the rains in ’54. Just have to rule that one out. And because I wasn’t going to B.S. I took a stab in the middle and went with 1956. And it was right. He thought I was some sort of savant, but really, I was the idiot who’s just guessing.

Natalie 26:59
There’s a newfound respect. And he let me, you know, have another glass and was like all right we’re friends now right?

Lori Budd 27:03
That’s awesome. All right, so I can get why you’d want that on the deserted island. But now I’m going to flip it because you are a foodie. So now here’s your wine. What is the one food? Sgain unlimited, but only food other than the coconuts? What is the food you’re gonna want to be there?

Natalie 27:28
So because I have to maintain my health in order to drink the wine and stay alive, I would pick a comfort food like chicken parmesan. The way Miles makes it is it’s very lightly breaded. And then he has a homemade tomato sauce. He puts on it and then over that he oven bakes cheese. And it is the most glorious thing. I love it and it’s not too unhealthy. And he always asks, what do you want for dinner with a smile on his face. Because he knows, chicken parm, please.

Lori Budd 28:00
My husband’s answer to that is pizza.

Unknown Speaker 28:02
Oh, yeah. That’s another good comfort food.

Lori Budd 28:06
All right, so Pinot Noir and chicken parm. Okay. All right. So with that, now that you’re stranded on the deserted island, we’re gonna let you come off. The rescue is finally going to come. But so we already said where people can find you. But what’s the app? And what about the socials? Where can people find you?

Natalie 28:28
So my website is the hub for everything. So And on there, you’ll find the mobile app tools etc,  alll my links to socials which tend to be at Natalie Maclean. If it’s not that it’ll be at Natalie Maclean wine, if someone already snagged my name, But that’s where you can find me and everything else that I do the books, etc. Oh, I also teach online food and wine pairing classes, which is really fun. I’m loving that.

Lori Budd 28:54
I’ve seen these before. How does that work? Are you sending out a list of what to buy?

Natalie 28:59
Yeah, I’m not texting them the wine or anything like that. But I have students from all over the world. Lots from the US, Canada of course, but Australia, Brazil, the Netherlands. And we all gather and it’s so much fun because the real focus is on food and wine pairing, which I find is accessible to everyone. So both novices will take the course but also, even those who have a lot of certifications and professional like sommeliers are in there too, because a lot of the professional designations don’t dive into food and wine pairing as much as I do in my courses. So welcome everybody who wants to join our happy little gang. It’s a lot of fun and a lot of experimentation. And the other thing is the memoir that I’m writing right now, Lori, I’d also invite people if they want to be a beta reader, beta reader means you just go through it and give me comments. You don’t have to be a wine expert. It’s just how does this book strike you. And with your comments, I’m trying to make the book better before it is published. I have a publisher but beta reading is a very important step in the process. So if any of your listeners, if you anybody would like to be a beta reader, I welcome you.

Lori Budd 30:08
I have a friend from college who is an author. And he started. He’s like, I’m just going to write this book, one book. And he, he’s about 12 books in and amazing writer. Like he found this skill that he just didn’t know he had. He unleashed this author in him. And his stories are incredible. And his very first book, I was a beta reader for it. And it’s an really interesting thing. So if anybody wants to do it, give it a try. It’s kind of cool. Because, like, there were things. I was like, I don’t understand how she got from here to here, you know. Like things like that. Because in his brain, it made a lot of sense. So you know, the authors are looking for people who aren’t inside their brain to hear the story.

Natalie MacLean 30:49
Precisely. That’s it. So again, you don’t have to be an editor or writer or wine expert. You don’t have to be an expert just to love books, wine, and words. But people will catch things. It’s like, oh, you just slipped into the past tense. It doesn’t even have to be that technical. As you say, like a timeline that doesn’t make sense. Or you’ve introduced a character and you didn’t give a first name or something like weird stuff, right. And that is so helpful. So again, if anybody wants to or is interested, you can just email me [email protected]

Lori Budd 31:17
You’re very good at the marketing aspect. Just keep everything the same. Natalie Maclean.

Natalie 31:23
I try. I wish I had a simpler name, like, you know, Pat Smith or something.

Lori Budd 31:27
Then you probably couldn’t have. Because there would be so many.

Natalie 31:30

That’s true, that would have been way too hard. Or it would have to pay a lot of money for PatSmith right?

Lori Budd 31:34
Absolutely. Absolutely. That was one of the first things I learned when I was learning about marketing for the winery is be consistent. So it’s Dracena Wines across the board. Everything’s Dracena Wines. And when a new thing comes out, like TikTok, I don’t do TikTok, but I went in and took Dracena Wines you know. So whatever that you know, new things come out, go in and snag your name so that somebody else doesn’t so. Exactly. Good advice. Yes. All right. So when I was on your podcast, you had the Hot Seat questions, the quick round. So I am resurrecting my game of opposites just for you. Thank you. So it is very simple. There is no right or wrong answer. And it is super, super fast. No right or wrong answer. All it is is I’m going to give you two words that are opposites. And one of them hopefully resonates with you and you just say which one resonates with you. There’s no right or wrong, that’s all I can say. My wonderful ending comes from a friend’s episode. Phoebe, Phoebe is trying to get Joey or Joey is travelling cross country and he doesn’t know whether to go the north route or the south route. So this was what she did to get him to decide which way to go. So big research on my end to figure this out.

Natalie MacLean 32:58
I love it. Very scientific.

Lori Budd 33:01
So we’re going to start off with non wine related terms. And then we’ll kind of zoom get into wine related terms. Okay, awesome. All right. So here we go. Night or day? Day. Sunset or sunrise? Sunrise. Black or white? Black. Walk or run? Walk. Food or drink? Drink, drink, drink. Old World or New world?

Unknown Speaker 33:26
Oh, Old World, I guess.

Lori Budd 33:27
Sweet or dry? Dry. Red or White? Red. Bubbles are still? Still. Oak or stainless? Stainless. Drink now or drink later?

Natalie 33:40
I’ll drink now, right away.

Lori Budd 33:44
Before I even get in the door.

Natalie 33:48
Exactly. Decant on doorstep.

Lori Budd 33:50
Blender or varietal.

Natalie 33:52
Oh, varietal I guess. Because Pinot. Anyway.

Lori Budd 33:55
Vintage or non vintage?  Vintage. Cork or screw cap? Cork. Napa or Sonoma? Ooh, Sonoma. Commercial or indigenous? Indigenous. Bordeaux or Rhone or Burgundy?

Unknown Speaker 34:10
Oh, three. Burgundy. Should I prioritize them.

Unknown Speaker 34:16
Burgundy then Bordeaux. I guess.

Unknown Speaker 34:18

Lori Budd 34:19
Yeah. Warm climate or cool climate? Cool. See, that’s it.

Natalie 34:22
Oh, wow. What a relief. Oh, my goodness. It felt like a quiz, a school quiz or a spelling bee. It was like, oh what am I revealing here?

Lori Budd 34:31
It is, you know, so it is kind of similar to that. It is similar to like, what you’re revealing or whatever. But yeah, interesting. is usually the people who say day usually say sunrise. You did say that. But then they also usually say white and you did say black so that was a little twist with the event.

Natalie 34:52
I like wearing black especially on a wine tour. I call them my buffet pants. So if I wear white, you’re gonna get spills on them first. And then you’re going to look like a tub of lard for me. Wear black. Anyway, that’s that’s where my brain went. It was like, Oh, no. Black pants for sure and a black shirt.

Lori Budd 35:10
Wine and clothing definitely definitely does not go. Yeah. And then usually people say Old world, they usually say drink later. And if they say New World, they usually say, drink now.

Natalie 35:20

Instant gratification but with Burgundy.

Lori Budd 35:25
So that’s it. No other than that. Thanks. Thanks. You can thank Phoebe or whoever wrote Phoebe’s lives.

Natalie MacLean 35:33
I love it. And it’s neat that you gave a little interpretation as well. That’s cool.

Lori Budd 35:37
You know, you can’t take the science out of me. Always got to throw that science stuff in there.

Natalie MacLean 35:42
I love it. That’s what makes you interesting, among many other things.

Lori Budd 35:46
Thank you. Well, I want to thank you so much for joining me and letting taking time out of your day to share your story with me because it is an incredible story. And I absolutely love meeting people who are so into wine and so down to earth at the same time. And thank you. It was my pleasure to talk to you and interview you and I really, really hope one day we get to meet in real life.

Natalie MacLean 36:13

Natalie 36:14
Lori, this has been so much fun. Yakked away and my interview of you last week and this one, it’s just I know, we would have

Natalie MacLean 36:21
so much fun if we could just get together.

Lori Budd 36:24

Natalie MacLean 36:25
A glass or three. Yeah.

Lori Budd 36:28
Thank you. And borders are open again. So yeah. There’s potential. But absolutely, yeah. And honestly, you know, this is horrible. I have not been to Canada really. I’ve spent one weekend in Montreal as a girls kind of getaway weekend of which we drove so we spent more time on the road than I think. That was when we were in Jersey so I drove up. And then the only other time I’ve been in Canada was a gambling trip to Windsor. So, we flew into Detroit and met my brother and sister in law and then drove over to gamble. Oh, wow. Wow. So I need to explore and honestly, I don’t think I’ve had Canadian wine.

Natalie MacLean 37:15
Okay. Now it’s real confession time. You would love it like either the Okanagan or Niagara are a great starting places, but even Quebec, Eastern Townships or Nova Scotia’s is beautiful. They all have great wine regions that I’m sure you’d love. Like lots of wineries that have restaurants ,beautiful scenery.

Natalie 37:32
I mean, it’s just lovely places to visit.

Lori Budd 37:34

Well, I’ve got to get on United. Hey, United here we go. Natalie is telling me I need to come there. So United. You need to get me there. Let’s go. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I do look forward to meeting you in person one day.  And it’s slightly 8:45 in the morning. So I do not have anything clinking with you today, but I will do a virtual. Yes. Enjoy your week.

Unknown Speaker 38:04
Oh, you too, Lori. Bye for now. Bye.

Lori Budd 38:06
Have a great one. Bye.

Natalie MacLean 38:14
Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed by chat with Lori. In the shownotes. You’ll find my email contact. the full transcript of my conversation with Lori, links to her podcast and website, and where you can find the live stream video version of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube Live every Wednesday at 7pm. You’ll also find a link to my free Ultimate Guide to Wine and Food Pairing. That’s all in the show notes at Email me if you’re a tip, sip, question, or want to be a beta reader of my new memoir at [email protected]. Also, this is episode 197. We’re getting close to 200. Woo hoo. Thank you for being there with me all along this journey. If you’ve got tips or suggestions on how to celebrate, whether it’s maybe what to post on social media, what to do for that 200th episode. Anything else? A big big cake with 200 candles might be a fire hazard, but whatever. Let me know. You won’t want to miss next week when I chat with sisters Sandy Dawkins and Michelle Lester who co-host the podcast Wines To Find. In the meantime, if you missed episode 182 go back and take a listen. It’s my second interview where I’m asking Lori the questions and we talk about her views on Cabernet Franc, California’s Paso Robles region, and high acidity wines. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Lori Budd 39:48
Wines have acidity even red wines have acidity to them but tannins calm it down. In a white wine, when the acid is high, you take a sip and you’re tongue starts to salivate kind of like if you suck on a lemon. That makes you crave another drink.

Natalie MacLean 40:05
Just as you squeeze lemon on a fish because it adds that mouthwatering acidity and makes the food taste better, I think the acidity also brings forward the flavour in the wine and makes it even taste better. Acid is our friend.

Lori Budd 40:17
Yes, there’s a balance.

Natalie MacLean 40:24
If you liked this episode, please email or tell one friend about it this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in the wines and stories we discussed. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a wine that tastes twice as much as it cost.

Natalie MacLean 40:49
You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at /subscribe. Meet me here next week. Cheers.