Restaurant Wine Lists, Poutine, Niagara & Pairing Tips



What are my top tips for choosing a bottle from a long restaurant wine list? What are the best wines to pair with extremely rich dishes like poutine? What would surprise you about the Niagara-on-the-Lake wine region and why should you visit?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m being interviewed by Scott Greenberg, on his podcast, The Vine Guy. He also hosts the “Wine of the Week” show on WTOP radio in Washington, DC.

You can find the wines we discussed here.



  • How have I incorporated my love of tech into my wine career?
  • What are the advantages to you of learning about food and wine online?
  • What will you learn in my online food and wine pairing classes?
  • How has the pandemic impacted my food and wine pairing classes?
  • How can you use my butter or lemon trick for each food and wine pairing?
  • Why is food and wine pairing something you should pay attention to?
  • How can you comfortably navigate intimidating restaurant wine lists?
  • What’s the weirdest food and wine pairing I’ve ever had?
  • Which wines should you try the next time you’re looking for a poutine pairing?
  • How do the tasting experiences with La Crema Pinot Noir and Hidden Valley Pinot Noir compare?
  • Why should you make a plan to visit Niagara-on-the-Lake?
  • Why is the Veuve Clicquot at the top of my list of people across time that I’d like to share a bottle with?

Start The Conversation: Click Below to Share These Wine Tips


About Scott Greenberg

Scott Greenberg, also known as “The Vine Guy”, is the host of the “Wine of the Week” show on WTOP radio in Washington, DC and the Vine Guy Podcast. Scott started his career in wine journalism as the syndicated wine columnist for the Washington Journal Newspaper and continues to contribute to Tasting Panel Magazine.

He’s also hosted numerous wine tastings, judged wine competitions and has taught a course on North American Wineries for the Smithsonian Associates program in Washington. Scott is To Kalon Vineyard Specialist and Italian Wine Scholar. He recently relocated from Maryland to Park City, Utah, where he lives with his wife, Cindy, and a rescue dog named Frankie.




Join me on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube Live Video

Join me on Instagram Live Video, Facebook Live Video or YouTube Live Video every Wednesday at 7 pm eastern for a casual wine chat.

Want to know when we go live?

Add this to your calendar:



Tag Me on Social

Tag me on social media if you enjoyed the episode:


Thirsty for more?

  • Sign up for my free online wine video class where I’ll walk you through The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!)
  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on, and other country-specific Amazon sites;, and other country-specific iTunes sites; and



Natalie MacLean 0:00
food and wine pairing. I think you’ll agree Scott is all about experimentation. It’s okay. If you discover something doesn’t work. That’s part of the learning the experimentation and if it doesn’t work out between your lobster and butter and your big red wine half have been in between, for goodness sakes, it’s not the end of the world. While I not one for hard and fast rules, because the best pairing of wine is to yourself, you know, pair the wine to the diner, not the dinner. I do think there are Yeah, but I think there are guidelines that are starting point. So there’s a reason why at least most of us don’t put ketchup on ice cream. Certain flavours, textures and weights that really don’t go well together create a kind of a nasty taste or sensation. So I think there are some guidelines that can help

Natalie MacLean 0:54
do you have a thirst to learn about wine, the love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations. Oh, that’s the blend here on the unreserved wine talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie Maclean. And each week, I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle please. And let’s get started. Welcome to Episode 153. What are my top tips for choosing a great bottle from a really long restaurant line list? What are the best wines to pair with very rich dishes like protein? And what would surprise you about the Niagara on the Lake wine region, and why it’s worth visiting now. You’ll get those answers and more wine tips in my chat with Scott Greenberg on his podcast, the vine guy. Scott also hosts the wine of the Week show on WTO P radio in Washington DC. In the show notes you’ll find a full transcript of our conversation, links to where you can buy my books, how you can join me in a free online food and wine pairing class and where you can find me on Zoom Insta Facebook and YouTube Live video every Wednesday at 7pm That’s all in the show notes at Natalie Maclean comm forward slash 153. Now on a personal note, before we dive into the show, Myles and I are just back from two gloriously crisp sunny days in Montreal. We love walking around Old Montreal especially and nipping into little galleries and art shops. We had a great dinner at Joby restaurant and then spent the train ride back digesting it and our memories. It felt so good to get away after almost two years of not travelling outside of the province. How about you? Are you making some travel plans? Let me know. Okay, on with the show.

Scott Greenberg 3:11
Welcome to another episode of the vine guy. I’m your host Scott Greenberg. And in this episode, I have the delightful pleasure of having Natalie McLean as my guest now, if you don’t know who Natalie MacLean is, you’ve probably been living in a wine cave somewhere because Natalie may not be so mad actually. That’s right. Natalie offers popular online wine and food courses. At Natalie Maclean calm. She’s the host of unreserved wine talk and selected as one of the best drink podcasts by the New York Times. Both of her books red, white and drunk all over a wine cellar journey from grape to glass and unquenchable. A tipsy quest for the world’s best bargain wines. were selected as an Amazon best books of the year. She’s the wine expert on C TV’s the social Canada’s largest daytime television show and by the way, Natalie is Canadian a CTV News and global televisions morning show. Natalie was named the world’s best drinks journalist at the World Food Media Awards, and is one count them for James Beard Foundation journalism awards. Wow. She is the only person to have won both the MFK Fisher distinguished writing award from the James Beard Foundation and the MFK Fisher Award for Excellence in culinary writing from less Dom’s dysgraphia international God I hope I said that right. Natalie, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for being my guest here today. It is such a pleasure to see you.

Natalie MacLean 4:47
Oh it’s so great to see to Scott live from bone it looks like

Scott Greenberg 4:50
Yeah, almost. And I would say not happier days but certainly in travel free days care. Can’t wait talking about Natalie, I have to ask where’s your background?

Natalie MacLean 5:03
My background is in st. Elena, California and it’s the old inglenook estate which is right beside the Francis Ford Coppola winery. So while I was in St. Elena, I bought this painting and got permission from the painter to use it as my backdrop for my video. So I just feel like I’m in the middle of the vineyards. I love that feeling.

Scott Greenberg 5:22
I know and it looks like you’re in the middle of the vineyards and quick, small world story. Before we jump into this, we were just talking about Robin Lael of local vineyards before we started the podcast. And it turns out that her great great grandfather was near bomb Gustaf. Right. So

Natalie MacLean 5:41
inglenook Oh, wow, she’s,

Scott Greenberg 5:43
she’s literally. So yeah, part of our family legacy is that very vineyard, that’s your background. So

Natalie MacLean 5:52
everything comes full circle, I think in the wine world eventually.

Scott Greenberg 5:55
Absolutely. It’s a small world. And I’m glad I’m part of it. And I’m glad you’re here today. With me. This is really exciting. So I’m going to just jump right in, I want you to tell me a little bit about food and wine pairing courses that you teach online, you know, what do you cover? Who’s registering for these courses? Because I have to tell you now, I’ve only read one of your books, I read the red, white and drunk all over just because one, I love the title. And two, it is a brilliant book. I mean, really make why not just interesting, but approachable. So I gotta believe you’re doing the same thing with your food and wine pairing courses.

Natalie MacLean 6:28
Oh, thank you. Yeah, that’s what I hoped to do. So my world was kind of high tech. Before I got into wine. I used to work for silicon graphics, which was headquartered in Mountain View, California. It’s now the headquarters of Google. So I got into the tech aspects early, when I got into wine, I kind of love the intersection. So most of what I’ve done all along, has been online, getting a website, having mobile apps, and now teaching wine and food courses online. And I just, I absolutely love it, Scott, because it allows me to connect with wine lovers around the world. I mean, most of my students are in the United States or Canada, but we have people from the Netherlands and Brazil and Australia. And I just love it because it sort of brings us together especially at least while we’re recording this now, during the lockdown. People really are just yearning for that connection, that we can’t get so much in person right now with wine tasting events, and so on being on hold. But I think they also start to realise that learning about food and wine pairing online or wine online actually has a lot of advantages. Like you know, you don’t have to hire a sitter, you’re not looking for parking, but you get to connect with all of these people around the world who share your passion. I just love it. To answer your question, though, in terms of what I actually teach. It’s a lot about the different concepts, you know, how do the flavours weight and texture of wine and food come together? Whether we want to contrast them or compliment them, I just think it’s a great entry point into the world of wine. Because we find foods so much less intimidating than we do wine. I think a lot of us like a roast chicken, I’m not checking its vintage chart. So I find a lot of people can enter it that way. But then even as you become more expert in wine, there’s always more to learn when it comes to pairings.

Scott Greenberg 8:18
You mentioned the pandemic. So many of us being kind of I would say, being careful or cautious and stay at home have taken up new hobbies. Of course, one of them is cooking. And I’ve got to believe that with all the things that we’re trying our hands out, I know that for example, Dave McIntyre, the wine writer for The Washington Post has become adroit at making sourdough bread bait. He’s just huge into sourdough bread. Now, I have become kind of the king of pasta making in our house. So I’m kind of curious, has your attendance skewed more towards the home chef when it comes to food and wine pairings? And what are you recommending people try at home?

Natalie MacLean 8:55
Well, yeah, the pandemic certainly has affected my classes overall in that they’ve kind of skyrocketed in popularity because people are searching for something to do online. So there’s many more people taking these courses that kind of got through that mental block that yes, you can learn online. And I don’t have to text you the wine. But I think a lot of people are looking to your point Scott to elevate their sort of home food and wine experience when they can’t often go to a restaurant. So they are learning to cook and they want to up their game wine wise to go with that. And it’s become a hobby, a passion for a lot of people, you know, something to wile away the days until we can return to restaurants and so on. But yeah, we’re getting a lot more foodies and home chefs who are learning about that aspect, but at the same time want to marry it to having great wines because I think wine is more than a condiment to your dinner. It’s kind of Yeah, it starts with wine and then then you pick the food as we’ve talked about before. I’m an earrings first kind of gal and then the outfit. So wine first food second, but that’s just me. But I think the two working together just can create such a magical experience.

Scott Greenberg 10:09
Well, you and I are definitely simpatico because I always think about wine for a stupid second. I don’t wear earrings at least I haven’t since college story, but I am obsessed obsessed with food and wine pairings. It’s just kind of in my wine, friends circle. It’s kind of my thing. You know, everybody in your wine supplies the thing that’s my thing. I’m just obsessed with Paris. What is your favourite tip for food and wine pairing?

Natalie MacLean 10:35
I love to give the tip I call it the lemon or butter test. So whatever you’re serving, would you tend to slather it with butter? Or would you put a squeeze of lemon on it? So if it’s the first the former like some slathered butter might be on a nice juicy steak, then you’re probably looking for a full bodied rich wine probably a red wine although I do think that lots of full bodied oak aged Chardonnays do very well, especially with the criminalization and the steak. And the buttery notes of the Chardonnay can work but like a Cabernet or something like that. Whereas if you’re putting a squeeze lemon on a light fish dish, then you’re probably looking for something that has some lemon lime zest, some wake up juicy, racy acidity like a Riesling or a Sauvignon Blanc, something like that. So I always tell my online students think about it, butter or lemon and let that start to be your guide as to narrowing in the options.

Scott Greenberg 11:32
Oh, Natalie, I love it. And I have a very embarrassing story to share with you. Excellent. We’re having a special dinner one night here during lockdown. And all three of my boys were home. So it was a special occasion. So I did a butter poached lobster. And I had specifically picked out a amortised blunk for the occasion. And so of course, I picked the bottle and I opened it up. And I had grabbed the wrong bottle of air montage. Natalie and it was a red arrow. Oh my god. Yeah, that was a shot. So you know, oh my god, or fours, right?

Natalie MacLean 12:11
I feel problems.

Scott Greenberg 12:14
Boys and my wife, I’ll like to be a scantron with dad. Boy, did you screw this up? And I’m like, well, it’s open now. But are you gonna do? It was great. And it was really the butter of that lobster that pulled that gorgeous, gorgeous Northern Rhone, red wine all together. So to your point, I love it. We didn’t use lemon on the lobster that night, we use butter. And now you just explained to me why I was saved from total embarrassment.

Natalie MacLean 12:42
Oh, excellent. It’s good to come to full understanding of something you do just intuitively right?

Scott Greenberg 12:49
I absolutely agree. So I’m obsessed, as I said, within wine pairings. But not everybody gets it. I mean, a lot of people will go to a restaurant or they’ll cook a meal at home. And then they’ll sort of kind of scratch their head and try to say, Well, does food and wine pairing really matter? Will you and I know that? It certainly does. But why do you think it’s important

Natalie MacLean 13:14
part of that I think Scott is bringing more people to wine through that less intimidating facet of food. So whether it’s chicken or steak or whatever, most people are pretty comfortable with how they order food in a restaurant, for example. But again, we get hung up on the wine lists. And it’s no wonder because you can’t try wine before you buy it, you know, at least not legally. And you’re looking at probably a list of wines that you may not recognise. Because a restaurant usually wants to present you with a different taste experience of wines you’re not going to find in liquor stores, typically. So yeah, so I think the more confidence we have, and that we can impart in the food and wine pairings, especially leading with the food in this case, the more we can inspire both confidence and curiosity in wine because food and wine pairing, I think you’ll agree Scott is all about experimentation. It’s okay, if you discover something doesn’t work. That’s part of the learning the experimentation and just carry on. And if it doesn’t work out between your lobster and butter and your big red wine, half a bun in between, for goodness sakes, it’s not the end of the world. So I think that’s why there is value in that and then I guess, while I’m not one for hard and fast rules, because the best pairing of wine is to yourself, you know, pair the wine to the diner, not the dinner. I do think there are Yeah, that’s not mine, but I someone said it. But I think there are reasons fundamental sort of guidelines that are starting points. So there’s a reason why at least most of us don’t put ketchup on ice cream. You know, there’s certain flavours, textures and weights that kind of really don’t go well together create a kind of a nasty taste sensation. So I think there are some guidelines that can help.

Scott Greenberg 15:04
So as vaccinations are now rolling out, as we’re starting to get a little bit more comfortable with maybe venturing out, I know that I will be fully, quote, charged up as of tomorrow. So I’m looking forward to and we started venturing. Yeah, I’m excited as we start to venture back out to restaurants. I know that probably one of the most intimidating things in the restaurant environment is when somebody hands you that wine encyclopaedia, wine book, card divan, as they say, you can really get intimidated trying to figure out because somebody at the tables may be having fish, somebody at the table is maybe having a steak, somebody else may be a vegetarian, and you said you don’t put ketchup on ice cream, or you can but I don’t know what kind of experience you’re gonna have. How can somebody who’s handed out wine list? Navigate? What do you have any tips or anything that you could share with us that kind of maybe eases that burden a little bit? And I know what I’m doing, and sometimes I’m intimidated. Yeah,

Natalie MacLean 16:09
well, we’re here to solve those first world problems. By but I think within a restaurant setting, there’s a couple things you can do. If it’s a restaurant that cares about wine, it probably does if they have a big tome that they’re handing you or a long list. As the sommelier or the server, somebody in that joint is going to be knowledgeable enough on wine to give you some suggestions. And if you don’t know what to ask, tell that person Hey, you know, we love this Cabernet or that Riesling that will give that person a gauge as to your taste and your price range. So that’s tip number one always ask the sommelier. Another question to ask, or to say is we’re having steak and chicken now how are you going to bring it all together? You know, very different dishes. A third question would be What are you excited about on the wine list? Tell us about that. So that’s where I would start. And then past that, if you’re on your own in a place that you sense doesn’t have a lot of wine savvy in terms of the people who are there. I would go with what I call switch hitter wines, Pinot Noir and Riesling, I find if you’re having vastly different dishes like seafood and steak if you’ve got vastly different palates, and you just want to have one or two bottles, I would go with one of those wines that kind of have lots of flavour but aren’t polarising, so they’re not to full body to light. They’re what I call them, switch hitter wines. And lastly, go by the glass, maybe order wine by the glass if you can. Not always an option, but that’s another way to handle it.

Scott Greenberg 17:47
That way, I knew I liked you. But now I love you people. Drink more Riesling? Yes, wonderful. It’s great. I don’t think we know enough about it as consumers. I don’t think it gets pushed enough on wine list. But if you’re listening to this podcast, please consider reasoning, reasoning, reasoning, and of course Pinot Noir. I absolutely love your recommendation family. Oh, great. Good, good. Good. I have to ask you, though, you know, with all of your knowledge and all of your experience of just getting curious. What’s the weirdest food and wine pairing you’ve ever had?

Natalie MacLean 18:21
One that I thought would not work. What it did was Rosae, a dry Rosae from Provence in the south of France, and catch up chips back to catch up, catch up chips. I’m not sure if you have them in the United States, it might be a uniquely Canadian phenomenon that maybe you’ll definitely will have to come and visit us to try this unique taste experience, Scott, but they’re their ketchup flavoured chips, and they happen to be among my favourite. And so I thought I have to find out wine pairing was just one of my missions lately. And I know real life catch up has more sugar than ice cream. That’s probably why I like it. So I thought these ketchup chips are gonna be too sweet for a dry Rosae. But it turned out it worked like they had sort of a smoky not so sweet as I thought tastes to them and the dry sort of strawberry inflected Rosae really worked well. And of course, the nice racy acidity of the Rosae was beautiful with the fat of the chips. And so it was very happy to discover that.

Scott Greenberg 19:29
Awesome. Okay, so I’m gonna throw you a curveball since you cannot Canada. What would be your favourite pairing with coochie

Natalie MacLean 19:37
coo teen Of course. butene friends. Exactly. Well, again, we’re making the trip to Canada for this one, unless you have a heart condition because it’s a coronary special. Traditionally French dish though, you’ll find it served across the country of French fries. Then come The cheese curds though squeaky cheese curds sprinkled all over generously douse your french fries with those and then put gravy on it because that’s not enough fat, everything else, just keep going. And then you’re definitely going to need some wine to clear out your arteries. So, all right, I could go either way with a red or a white with a white. We’re looking at of course very rich cheese, glorious grease and gravy of the fries and the gravy Of course. So I would go with maybe a buttery Chardonnay or maybe a full bodied Roussanne from the Rhone Valley, something like that. Okay, good. But let’s not forget the red wine lovers. In this case, I would go with something that is not tannic, so not a Cabernet, typically a young Cabernet, but something rich and round with those sort of fleshy right plummy berries and plums like a Sheraz, or maybe even a Syrah but as long as it’s very fruit forward, because to handle again, those rich flavours and just that mouth coding grease, you’re going to need something very rich and round itself.

Scott Greenberg 21:06
Well, you know, somebody wants to ask me, Scott, if you were a wine, what would you be? And I think you just nailed it. I think I’m a sir. I’m rich, rounded plumbing.

Natalie MacLean 21:14
There you go. That’s a great thing to be.

Scott Greenberg 21:18
Yes, and I go great with Pucci.

Unknown Speaker 21:21
That’s right. Perfect.

Scott Greenberg 21:25
Now, we’re coming up on my favourite part of the podcast, Natalie. Oh. So we’re going to go couple wines that you selected that you want to talk about today. I’m very excited about this. Because you have decided to go what I would say north and south you being the North United States being to south of you. So I’m curious as to what wines you’ve got for us today.

Natalie MacLean 21:52
Yeah, a little cross border collaboration. Here. I’ve got two Pinot Noir hours because that does happen to be my favourite grape of choice. So I’ve got lacryma from Sonoma Valley. Nice, cool climate in California. And then all of our wines are cool climate here in Canada. This is hidden bench Pinot Noir from the Niagara region.

Scott Greenberg 22:14
Oh, they’re both right about this.

Natalie MacLean 22:17
Yes. So the Sonoma is a 2018. The hidden benches at 2019. I’ve got a big glass. Because as you know, Scott, Pinot Noir is so aromatic. We want to give it lots of room to swirl around and collect those lovely aromas. But this one is just so beautiful. I’m starting with the hidden bench because it is cooler, so it has more acidity. The Sonoma lacryma is much more fruit forward, even though it’s still very balanced, medium bodied, juicy, that sort of thing. So I’ll just take a sip just to be sure and check here for you. I want to be thorough. Oh my goodness. I love the no wires

Scott Greenberg 22:57
is almost as big as your earrings.

Natalie MacLean 23:01
Yes, and I can have a facial afterwards, after I finished my wine in the glass itself. Hmm, that’s so beautiful. I just love the way Pinot Noir it gets the juices running literally whet your appetite, which is I think what an ideal wine should do. Oh, it’s a Gusher. And then and it’s got those right berries and cherries and a little bit of plum, but mostly cherries. This is like crema. It’s got a bit of a deeper colour. bit darker on the fruit, whereas the hidden bench was like red fruit, this one sort of dark red, but again, not anything you’d find in a Cabernet like, like because see, sir, a black currant not that dark.

Scott Greenberg 23:44
Definitely looks darker than is

Natalie MacLean 23:47
definitely. I mean, I don’t know the lighting is hard to tell. But I can tell just looking at them here, especially if I had a white background. The colour would be even more magnified the difference but really lovely. Again, lots of juicy acidity. Both of these would be so good with like roast chicken and turkey and veal and grilled veggies. Grilled portabella mushroom would be the bond. I think they’re wonderful. I love these two wines.

Scott Greenberg 24:15
So I want to go back to the hidden bench for a moment. I don’t think a lot of people have an opportunity to sample Canadian wines. Can you talk a little bit about the region this is coming from and kind of what the wine growing areas like because I’m fascinated by Canadian ones. I’ve had the great pleasure of visiting Canada on several occasions and enjoying the wine, but I don’t think a lot of people get exposed to Canadian wine.

Natalie MacLean 24:41
It’s great. It’s a beautiful region to visit especially when we get more fully opened back up. I think a lot of people would be surprised just how many wineries there are. I mean, there’s more than 700 across Canada but the largest two regions are Ontario and British Columbia on the west coast. So in Niagara which is really The largest of about three, four, there’s a fourth emerging region, but it’s the largest concentration. And it’s Niagara on the Lake. And in this case, the bench region, which is still part of Niagara. And the reason that wine grows so well here wine grapes is that it’s got the moderating effect of Lake Niagara, which acts like a water bottle. So the water stores up heat in the summer, and then releases it through the winter so that the vines don’t die from freezing over the winter. So it’s just moderating the temperatures. And then in the summer, it’s releasing more coolness so that the grapes don’t roast in the summer. And it’s just a spectacular region, because it’s got lots of wineries to visit. But there’s also lots of great restaurants that are attached to wineries and other restaurants and other things to do that it’s kid friendly to there’s biking and ballooning and so on, but I think people would be surprised just at the range of wines that are done. And the quality Pinot Noir and Riesling I think do lead as cool climate grapes here. But also unoaked chardonnay, Cabernet Franc is a big one here, and gourmet. Those would be the big ones I’d say. And of course, we’re known for ice wine. That tends to be something that people buy when they’re here and then re gift to relatives. It’s glorious. It put us on the map originally, but I think that’s dry. Still table wines are really worth trying. And then we’re also really good at sparkling wine because the traditional sparkling blend is Pinot Noir, Pinot manye Chardonnay, and we do those well, so a lot of great bubblies here as well.

Scott Greenberg 26:43
Well, my introduction to Canadian wines, of course, was ice wine. And I adore them. I think they are absolutely great. And if anybody is going to give some ice wine. I’m your man.

Unknown Speaker 26:54
coming your way.

Scott Greenberg 26:54
I love them. Yeah, I’m so excited to hear about the Pinot Noir and Chardonnay and Peter in the air coming on. Is this the Niagara?

Natalie MacLean 27:03
Yes. So Ontario has sort of four regions and it’s an easy drive once you cross the New York border, but there’s sort of Niagara, which has all kinds of little sub appellations as well. Even more South is Paley Island, and Lake Erie North Shore. So far smaller region, not as developed wine wise, not as old as the vines are in Niagara, but exciting. New things are happening there. That east of Toronto is an area called Prince Edward County Picton really exciting stuff happening there. But again, so much smaller than the Niagara region. And then there’s a few wineries around where I live in Ottawa, believe it or not, but that’s really just starting to emerge.

Scott Greenberg 27:47
Fantastic. Well, I can’t wait. I would love to come and visit and maybe you could be my tour guide.

Natalie MacLean 27:54
Yes, absolutely. And first on the menu is protein. beavertails are another delicacy. And yeah, we’re going to have to try all the things. beaver tail, beaver tails, those are like these twisty pretzel things. We call them beaver tails. Okay,

Scott Greenberg 28:08
the real beaver tail.

Natalie MacLean 28:09
No, no, we’re not going to show it to down on one of our national animals. He’s not protected or endangered. But, you know, not tasty, but it’s like a pretzel. A giant pretzel in the shape of a beaver tail. Thanks for clarifying that. For all Canadians doing?

Scott Greenberg 28:29
Wow. Are we gonna end this podcast on a weird note? Natalie, I have to say, turn about my dear, is fair play. And you had recently asked me what I had the pleasure of appearing on your video cast. you’d asked me a very interesting question, which took me by surprise. So I hope I take you by surprise.

Scott Greenberg 28:57
Alive or dead? Would you want to share a bottle of wine with them? And what would that wine be?

Natalie MacLean 29:04
Oh, wow. Okay. Oh Ha. All right. Yes. Serves me right. It’s nice. But I do have an answer only because I was writing about her recently. She’s no longer with us. But the verb Clico mad am BB Nicole Kiko pulse out there. Who was the young woman at age 28, who took over with Clicquot champagne house when she lost her husband to I think it was illness. She had an eight year old daughter Clementine. And she ran that business and arguably one of France’s best luxury brands for more than 60 years at a time when women weren’t in business at all. She got through the Napoleonic blockade, got her wines over into the court of Russia in time for the birth of the new Tsar, so it became fashionable back then that was the Instagram equivalent of having your wines popularised and she just did so many things. so bravely so you know she also invented riddling, you know before champagne bottles or discord she got to put them upside down to get rid of the sediment. She drilled holes in her kitchen table and figured out how to clarify bubbly. So she’s just a remarkable woman whom I admire and a tough old bird. And I’d love to have her for dinner and ask her about you know, the things she did the people she met me kept her going

Scott Greenberg 30:24
and what one would use her Oh,

Natalie MacLean 30:27
like grand down champagne by booth we go the grand down? Yep.

Scott Greenberg 30:32
One of my favourites. I absolutely adore Lagonda. Champion only selected in the best years. So

Natalie MacLean 30:43
I probably asked her to brag. I’m not an older

Scott Greenberg 30:50
boy, would that be older? Natalie, thank you so much for being my guest. Before I let you go, I do have a cute story to share with you. You were talking about how you have an international audience that people from all over the world are now tuning in to your website, which by the way, we will repeat in just a second. And one of the countries you had mentioned was Australia. And again, just before the pandemic hit, literally at the very end of 2019. I had the pleasure of being the wine personality, if you will, for lack of a better word, but they actually hit my name tag said wine expert which I to this day I kept in habit on a bulletin board. That makes me giggle. But I had this lovely Australian couple on the ship. And after I’d finished my third course we were having dinner and they came up and said oh we loved your wine seminars. We think you’re absolutely brilliant. Awesome, but you know Natalie Maclean

Natalie MacLean 31:48
it’s kind of share that story. They were

Scott Greenberg 31:53
they were playing. Natalie, Australia everyone. Everyone listening please, please tune in to Natalie Maclean. You can find her at WWW dot Natalie And we claim by the way is m AC Lea. That’s writing from the East Coast. We have a McLean, Virginia without the A so right we’re gonna give you the A for effort. Again, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It’s so wonderful to see you and spend time with you.

Natalie MacLean 32:27
Oh, Scott, thank you so much. This has been terrific. I’m going to raise two glasses to you. Right. There we go. Cheers.

Scott Greenberg 32:39
That’ll do it for this episode of The Veyron guy WP news podcast. Don’t forget to follow me on Twitter and catch my wine of the week shows every Friday, WT o And WT O P radio. And remember until the next time do good drink well.

Natalie MacLean 33:01
Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed my chat with Scott Greenberg. In the show notes you’ll find a full transcript of our conversation, links to where you can buy my books, how you can join me in a free online wine and food pairing class and where you can find me on Zoom Insta Facebook and YouTube Live video every Wednesday at 7pm. That’s all in the show notes at Natalie Maclean comm forward slash one by three. You won’t want to miss next week when I’ll pair books and bottles just in time for the holiday season. They make great gift sets. In the meantime, if you missed episode 88 go back and take a listen. I chat about how a wine name impacts price with Dr. Antonia mentor naugus. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Dr. Antonia Mantonakis 33:49
Not only were participants evaluate the taste of the wine as being higher quality, in terms of the overall evaluation, when it was more difficult sounding but participants also reported a higher willingness to pay for the wine.

Natalie MacLean 34:06
I’m assuming that for the difficult one, they were willing to pay more they thought it was a better wine.

Dr. Antonia Mantonakis 34:10
Yes, that’s correct. What was also more interesting that we were a little bit surprised by is that this difference was pronounced even for participants who had higher knowledge about wine. When a consumer is more passionate about wine, they’re really paying attention to the label and maybe the vintage and these other characteristics that they try to use as cues to evaluate the quality and

Natalie MacLean 34:36
that makes more sense not that they would be more gullible you know being knowledgeable but that they’re just paying more attention to the details

Natalie MacLean 34:48
if you liked this episode, please tell one friend about it this week, especially someone you know who be interested in the lines and trends we discussed. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great In your glass this week, perhaps a luscious full bodied wine that pairs well with contain

Natalie MacLean 35:11
you don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full body bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie Maclean comm forward slash subscribe, maybe here next week cheers