What Turns A Wine Country Visit Into An Incredibly Memorable Experience? with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter

Natalie MacLean
Jul9th

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Introduction

What turns a wine country visit into an incredibly memorable experience? What are the hidden perks of off-peak wine travel? How has digital media transformed the way people plan wine travel?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter, the world’s most prestigious wine magazine.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

Giveaway

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Highlights

  • What don’t many wine lovers realize about the wine-making history of the country of Georgia?
  • How important is authentic cultural immersion to wine travel?
  • Can wine tourism help preserve cultural heritage in regions recovering from political strife?
  • What’s the association between wineries and wildlife?
  • How and why are many wineries now catering to families?
  • What was Amy’s approach to balancing practical with sharing the romance of the locations in The Ultimate Wine Lover’s Travel Guide?
  • What would Amy include in her perfect wine day itinerary?
  • How has COVID-19 impacted wine travel?
  • What are the advantages of travelling to wine regions outside of the peak seasons?
  • Is environmental consciousness changing wine tourism?
  • How has digital media transformed wine travel writing?
  • Has the rise of influencers changed the wine industry?
  • What would Amy add to a new edition of the book?
  • What should you be asking about wine travel?
  • How does Amy want readers to feel after reading The Ultimate Wine Lover’s Travel Guide?
  • Which famous figures would Amy want to be able to share a bottle of wine with?

 

Key Takeaways

  • What turns a wine country visit into an incredibly memorable experience?
    • Amy advises to mix it up a bit and not cram too much into the day, because then that becomes too stressful. Probably a bit of planning will help to make it a perfect day. Often you need to book in advance. So maybe just two winery visits, one in the morning, one in the afternoon. Go somewhere for lunch where you can sit outside and just enjoy the beautiful views, get some fresh air. You might be able to hire a bicycle or go for a hike around the vineyards. See a beautiful village that has some nice culture, or architectural churches.
  • What are the hidden perks of off-peak wine travel?
    • Amy says the main thing is that the winemaker might have more time to spend with you. There must be certain times of the year that are really busy, not only in terms of tourists, but in terms of the winemaking. Also you have a higher chance of just being able to get into some of the most sought-after wineries. There might be some wineries that are just fully booked for ages.
  • How has digital media transformed the way people plan wine travel?
    • Amy observes that on social media, you can watch videos and reels of place which inspires people to do more research. So they might be sparked off by something they see on TikTok or Facebook or Instagram, and then they might go to Decanter.com, and read the whole article. So it’s all complementary.

 

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In Bordeaux, they’re recognizing the benefits of being able to connect with their end customers. As wine lovers, it’s a great trend that the wine world is opening up more. - Amy Wislocki Amy Wislocki Click to tweet

 

About Amy Wislocki

Amy has more than 30 years’ experience in publishing, and worked at a senior level for leading companies in the consumer, business-to-business and contract publishing arenas, before joining Decanter in October 2000 as Magazine Editor. As well as overseeing content planning and production for the print offering, she has also been involved in developing digital channels, Decanter.com and Decanter Premium.

 

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Transcript

Natalie MacLean 00:00:00 What turns a wine country visit into an incredibly memorable experience? What are the hidden perks of off peak wine travel? And how has digital media transformed the way people plan wine trips? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in Part Two of our chat with Amy Wislocki, editor in chief of Decanter, the world’s most prestigious wine magazine. You don’t need to have listened to Part One from last week first, but if you missed it, go back and have a listen after you finish this one. By the end of our conversation, you’ll also discover what many wine lovers don’t realize about the winemaking history of the country of Georgia. How important authentic cultural immersion is to wine travel. How wine tourism can help preserve cultural heritage in regions recovering from political strife. The connection between wineries and wildfire. How and why many wineries are now catering to families. Amy’s approach to balancing practical information with the romance of locations in the ultimate wine lovers travel guide. What Amy would include in her perfect wine day itinerary. How the pandemic has impacted wine travel. How environmental consciousness is changing wine tourism. How digital media has transformed wine travel. How the rise of influencers has changed the wine industry. What Amy would add to a new edition of the book. The questions you should ask about wine travel. How Amy wants readers to feel after reading this book. And ,which famous figures Amy would want to share a bottle of wine with.

Natalie MacLean 00:01:50 Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people? Hauntingly beautiful places and amusingly awkward social situations. Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:32 Welcome to episode 345. Continuing with my special series on Canadian wines and spirits. I’ll share my recommendations with you that were part of my guest appearance recently on CTV’s CP24 Breakfast Television show.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:49 Great to be back with you, Nick. We’re going to dive into some delicious patriotism today. We’re starting with a gorgeous white wine from Inasphere Estate in Norfolk County, Ontario. Their Pinot Grigio is crisp and dry, with mouthwatering notes of lime zest, green apple and just a hint of minerality. This family run farm turned vineyard and winery takes full advantage of Norfolk’s breezy microclimate. And the tasting patio has a gorgeous panoramic view of the vineyard farm, Lake Erie and the Inner bay. They’re a combination working farm and winery, not only offering wines but also their own fresh produce. Consider visiting them for a local farm to table experience. The racy acidity of this wine will cut through the melting cheese and fries in a poutine faster than a lumberjack holling timber. Or try it with a soft cheese. President’s Choice double cream brie with layers of buttery richness is just the thing. It’s a combo that’s creamy and zesty all at once. It’s like a sparkler on your palate. Perfect for fireworks and fresh air.

Natalie MacLean 00:04:00 You can find this President’s Choice cheese and the ones I’m going to recommend next today at any Loblaws grocery store, including No Frills and The Real Canadian Superstore. The Character Red from Hester Creek in the South Okanagan is a rich blend that whispers cedar and blackberry with a velvety finish that lingers like a good campfire story. The estate was founded in 1968 by Italian pioneer Joe Busnardo, who brought the vine cuttings back from Italy in his suitcase. Today They’re a full fledged wine destination with a villa hotel, restaurant and cooking classes. This red would be divine with President’s Choice Black Label White Fox cheddar. It’s crafted at a third generation, family owned Belton Farms in the English countryside, which has been making cheddars for more than 100 years. The milk is sourced from local dairies who pride themselves on quality and ensure the cows are grass fed from the English countryside. In other words, these cows are very happy and they make excellent cheese. White Fox is aged for 12 months, giving it a creamy, slightly nutty, mellow flavour, and a slight crunch.

Natalie MacLean 00:05:14 If we’re looking for a great cocktail, we have the ready to pour white sangria from Mastronardi in Kingsville, Ontario. It’s sunshine in a bottle with notes of lemon, lime and a juicy kiss of sweetness. No need for extra measuring or muddling. Just pour it over ice. Toss in some sliced fruit if you’re feeling extra. And voila! Suddenly you’re the fancy friend without having to Google anything. It’s so crushable that I’d pair this with President’s Choice Red Fox, a cult favorite amongst chefs and cheese lovers alike. Red Fox is aged for 18 months, which gives it a sharp cheddar tang with toffee notes, a flaky texture and a crunch from that calcium lactate crystals as the cheese matures. And now let’s end on a high note. Literally, in the highlands of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. Glen Breton is North America’s first single malt whisky. They’re copper stills imported from Scotland in 1969 are still in use today. Glen Breton has traveled to the top of Everest and the South Pole, and famously won the right to keep Glen in its name after an international battle with Scotland’s Whisky association.

Natalie MacLean 00:06:27 Pair it with President’s Choice Black Label. 36 month Parmigiano Reggiano. Parm is the undisputed king of cheeses, crafted in the heart of Italy and matured for a full 36 months. It’s bold yet balanced. The 36 month aging process unlocks intensely savoury, umami rich character. Each bite reveals a deeply complex notes of toasted hazelnuts, brown butter, and a lingering sweetness reminiscent of dried figs or warm caramel. This Parmigiano Reggiano is aged to perfection for those who appreciate patience, craftsmanship, and depth. It brings out the toffee spice and subtle smoke in the whiskey. And the whiskey, of course, is a liquid form of Canadian rebellion. Strong, smooth and seductively charming. Glen Breton would also be terrific in classic cocktails like the Old Fashioned or a Whiskey Sour, but it is also best savoured straight up, like life itself. Thank you for sharing these amazing bottles and bites. Where can we find you online? On Instagram I’m at Natalie MacLean Wine and online. My website is nataliemaclean.com

Natalie MacLean 00:07:53So two of you are going to win a copy of Decanter magazine’s new book, The Ultimate Travel Guide for Wine Lovers. If you’d like to win a copy, please email me and let me know you’d like to win. It doesn’t matter where you live. I’ll choose two winners randomly from those who contact me at [email protected]. In other bookish news, if you’re reading the paperback or e-book or listening to the audiobook of my memoir Wine Witch on Fire: Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Defamation and Drinking Too Much, a national bestseller in one of Amazon’s best books of the year, I’d love to hear from you at [email protected]. I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers worldwide at nataliemaclean.com/345. Okay, on with the show.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:18 What were some of the most off the radar places that were included like you would never imagine?

Amy Wislocki 00:08:41 Well, I guess Charleston, I mean, I guess the US places. The US up and coming wine regions were probably to me. I mean, even things like Georgia.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:50 The country, not the state.

Amy Wislocki 00:08:52 Yes, exactly. The country. Georgia even that nowadays is becoming more recognized as a wine region and as a kind of amazing destination. But yeah, so we do have an article on Georgia.

Natalie MacLean 00:09:03 And it’s the cradle of winemaking history. 8000 years. And why do you think that wine lovers, more broadly speaking, don’t realize that? Why is that story not as well known, perhaps, as it should be?

Amy Wislocki 00:09:16 I think it is getting more visibility now in the UK at any rate. I don’t know about where you are, but I guess it’s because, like the availability of the wines hasn’t been.  And probably the quality, because during Communism the wines were not very good. So I guess even though it’s an ancient wine civilization, in terms of modern winemaking and quality it’s still probably quite a young, a young industry, which is true of lots of places that have only improved their winemaking since certain political regimes ended or whatever.

Natalie MacLean 00:09:47 Sure. In that piece, it also talks about experiencing integrated agriculture. How important is authentic cultural immersion, like staying with families or whatever to wine travel? Or is it just I guess different people prefer different experiences. But what’s your take on that?

Amy Wislocki 00:10:04 Well, I guess you could ask that about any kind of travel. Staying with a local family will give you a more authentic experience. But in wine, it’s probably more the case than ever, because so many of the producers will be these tiny kind of family. They might have been handed down through generations, these small vineyards. Lots of regions, they’re just a patchwork of tiny, tiny vineyards and wineries. So I guess that just gives you like a real insight into the real existence of it, rather than just the kind of the polished tourist trail.

Natalie MacLean 00:10:38 Sure. And then just one more point about Georgia. It’s described as a rebirth post-conflict. Do you think wine tourism can help preserve or resurrect cultural heritage in regions recovering from political strife?

Amy Wislocki 00:10:50 For sure. I think even for quite pragmatic reasons, you know, I’m sure like a country’s government will see the benefit of promoting its wine making as a way of bringing tourism in and as a way of kind of helping to stimulate the economy. It’s an obvious way, isn’t it, to help grow the economy. And it’s an opportunity because I guess some countries you couldn’t really visit. They were kind of closed to international visitors. So now if they’re opening their doors again. It’s exciting opportunity for people who want to discover new things.

Natalie MacLean 00:11:25 Absolutely. You mentioned some unique experiences, like llama trekking at Divine Llama Vineyards in North Carolina. Is that like using llamas to go in through the vineyards? What were they doing there?

Amy Wislocki 00:11:36 I haven’t done it myself after that horse experience.

Natalie MacLean 00:11:40 I don’t blame you.

Amy Wislocki 00:11:41 Well, yeah. My understanding is that you go on a trek and you’re actually you’re given your own llama on a kind of lead, and you walk. It’s like taking a dog for a walk, except it’s a llama. I think it’s a two hour walk or something. And then you feed your llama some treats and then. I mean, it all sounds quite memorable and strange, but they look quite cute and fluffy, you know, they don’t look too scary.

Natalie MacLean 00:12:02 Okay, so we’re not riding the llamas, but is there another unexpected encounter, animal encounter or anything else, that was struck you as well? That’s different. A kind of activity based at a winery?

Amy Wislocki 00:12:14 Well, we did write once. This isn’t in the book. But we wrote in the magazine about Thailand and their wine scene. It’s another place you don’t really think of as a wine destination. But, they do make wine in Thailand. Sometimes they have elephants trampling the vines at night, which you know is not a problem we get in the English vineyards. And you can do at one. I think it’s Monsoon Valley, which is one of the most, probably the most well known Thai wine producer. You can do like a 4×4 safari see kind of real wildlife. And the author talks about it as I remember he, I think he used this phrase Tuscany meets the jungle or something sounds quite different. But I mean everywhere, even in Europe. You’ve got wolves in Tuscany and, you know, got all kinds of things going on. And obviously in America you’ve got coyote and bears and wine regions and.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:02 Sure. And they have wild baboons or something in South Africa.

Amy Wislocki 00:13:05 That’s right. Baboons and monkeys in South Africa. And yeah, lots of things going on.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:11 They all love those grapes. You mentioned one winery has a swimming pool in the middle of the vineyards, which kids love. Like you also offer tips for families who want to travel and maybe potential activities for children, which I thought was kind of neat.

Amy Wislocki 00:13:25 I mean, so many wineries are now catering for families, which makes total sense. You’re unlikely as a wine lover to be going there on your own. You probably are going with your family or even a partner who’s not necessarily into wine or so. There are so many sophisticated things, even in Bordeaux, which you wouldn’t expect to offer that kind of thing. Some chateau offer really quite sophisticated family activities. But there are many that offer good things for children.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:56 And you also put a lot of helpful details on logistics like ferry ride times or whatever else you have to get. How do you keep that from getting out of date the day it’s published? Are you doing an online component or something for those details?

Amy Wislocki 00:14:09 I mean, look. The fact is that obviously in a book format as soon as it’s published it is going to be out of date. You can’t help that. But I think what we’re hoping is that the book will inspire people to make these trips. Hopefully, most of the details will be correct, but I think very few people will go on holiday without actually doing their own research or checking things. And most of the wineries and hotels and restaurants will still be there. But yes, obviously you might want to check the finer details if it’s in a book that was published 2 or 3 years ago or something.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:39 Sure. Those details are helpful.

Amy Wislocki 00:14:41 In articles like this in the book. It’s about getting a balance between you do want to give people practical information, obviously in practical advice, but you also want to kind of get across the romance and the magic of a place and really kind of trying to evoke why you should visit this place. Why is it so special? But in terms of the practical information, I mean, that’s why we do. So you’ll notice that lots of the articles in the book have what we call my perfect day. So it’s a box within the article where people actually suggest an itinerary for a day. So morning, lunchtime, afternoon, evening, then where you end up, where you eat, where you stay the night. Because I think that’s really useful. And that’s why it’s so good to have insider knowledge, because it’s about knowing how to put the pieces of the jigsaw together in terms of like which winery is near which restaurant? How long will it take to go there and there? And that, I think, is really invaluable information.  That’s actually a doable itinerary.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:37 Absolutely. Those perfect day itineraries are wonderful. Like there’s one in Rioja. What for you makes a perfect wine itinerary or makes it truly exceptional versus just sort of going to tasting room after tasting room, which is how a lot of people approach it.

Amy Wislocki 00:15:53 I think it would be to mix it up a bit. Not to try and cram too much into the day because then that just becomes like too stressful and it’s all bound to go wrong at some point, you know? So I guess what I would say is probably a bit of planning will help to make it a perfect day, rather than assume you can just walk up. And often you do kind of need to book in advance. But I would say to have a combination of things. So maybe just like even just two winery visits, maybe like one in the morning, one in the afternoon. Obviously, for me, having really good food is important as well as part of it and lovely views hopefully. So maybe going somewhere for lunch where you can sit outside and just enjoy the beautiful views and get some fresh air. Maybe go for hike. Maybe do a bit of activity at some point. So one of the vineyards, you might be able to hire a bicycle or go for a little hike around the vineyards or something like that. So just to mix it up a bit, maybe have a bit of culture, stop off and see like a beautiful village that has some nice culture. Or see some of their architecture or churches. So just, I don’t know, just to have a mixture of stuff I think is really nice. We don’t only mention wineries. We do say, oh, while you’re here, go and see this or that or, you know, to try and bring it all in.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:00 Right. And post-Covid, I know, at least here in Canada, a lot of wineries now require reservations. You can’t just show up all the time. Or there might be a big busload of people there. So it does pay to plan that, to not make assumptions that you can just walk into a winery these days.

Amy Wislocki 00:17:16 I mean, I think some you can,  especially if they have a shop like a cellar door. You might be able to turn up. But even those, if they’re doing tours, the tours might be full. So I think the norm is probably to check in advance whether you need to book.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:29 Yes. You also emphasize in some places off peak travel to places like Corsica? What are the advantages? I guess lower crowds, discounts perhaps? Is there anything else?

Amy Wislocki 00:17:40 I guess the main thing I would think of is that the winemaker. They might have more time to spend with you because there must be certain times of the year that are really busy, not only in terms of tourists, but in terms of the winemaking and wine growing calendar. So there may be certain times of the year where they’re not doing very much, and then they’ll have more time to actually talk to you and explain things to you. So I’d say that would probably be the main benefit. And I guess just actually being able to get in to some places like the most sought after wineries. There might be some wineries that are just fully booked for it for ages. And, if it’s the most famous place in an area, it’ll be easier to get access. Although I guess they might not be open all around the year. You’d have to check.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:22 Underscore check. The book also highlights how places like Bordeaux have transformed from being sort of, quote, famous for Mr. Aloofness. Grand Chateau gates closed visitors. Now, estates are queuing up to welcome tourists. Is there a particular winery that stands out as doing this really well? Obviously they’re trying to embrace their customers more with global competition and that sort of thing.

Amy Wislocki 00:18:45 I think there are so many, particularly in Bordeaux, that you could say that about, because that was the image. Even when I joined Decanter, it was the image was very much of a kind of closed gate and things. Big grand iron chateau gates.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:56 You had to know someone to make an introduction for you, a letter.

Amy Wislocki 00:19:00 Yes. Now there are so many that welcome visitors. I mean, for example, Pope Clement which is a kind of very well respected winery and, used to be kind of famous for being quite aloof. They now have very elaborate tourism offerings and even helicopter rides and all kinds of things that you can do for families. And I think in Bordeaux, even more than some other regions, they’re recognizing the benefits of that because the way obviously that Bordeaux is sold, they don’t always know who their end customer is. They don’t know who’s drinking their wine because it goes through so many layers of distribution before it gets to the end customers. So I think they’re realizing the value of actually being able to connect with end customers. It’s good for us, isn’t it, as wine lovers. It’s a great trend that the wine world is opening up more.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:45 Absolutely.Several regions, like the Margaret River in Australia and Marlborough in New Zealand, emphasize their sustainability practices. Is environmental conscientiousness or consciousness changing wine tourism in your mind? Did you see that coming through in some of these articles?

Amy Wislocki 00:20:03 We have done specifically articles for people like doing a region by bike, for instance. So some wine regions lend themselves to being explored by bike or you could even walk in some places, if it’s quite close together. But then on the other hand, quite a few of the wineries are quite off the beaten track. I think you usually do have to get out of the cities and stuff. So at the end of the day, realistically, you probably will have to use some kind of transport in many cases to get to these wine regions. But it doesn’t mean that you can’t prioritize going to see wineries who have some kind of sustainable accreditation or if you want to kind of go down that route or visit wineries who are organic or whatever.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:46 Yeah, I think there’s a –  I don’t know if it’s Napa Green – I think is an organization in Napa Valley, California, where you can visit all the organic or sustainable wineries. They have a wine route where you can just visit those places.

Amy Wislocki 00:21:00 Exactly that kind of thing. And obviously in some kind of regions, like New Zealand you’ve got something like 90% of the wineries are organic or something that. Might be wrong, but, I mean they have a very high percentage of. So if that was a real preoccupation, you could. But then obviously you’d have to fly to New Zealand, which wouldn’t be very sustainable.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:16 So I know that’s that begs the question, where do you stand on that? Do you think?  You’ve got a book encouraging people to travel, which has many pleasures and is good for the wineries.

Amy Wislocki 00:21:26 But we’re not going to tell people what their own moral compass should be. I mean, obviously, if people don’t want to do that kind of travel, then they can just visit the wine regions on their own doorstep. So, you know, now, even in England, we’ve got exciting wine regions that you can visit. So I can do that. If they don’t want to go on a plane or whatever.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:45 Sure, sure. The last section of the book, or near the end, it’s the world’s 50 best wine trips, which I think people will love. Get the book for that alone. And looking at this section, you rank these based on their popularity on decanter.com.

Amy Wislocki 00:22:01 We essentially took our travel articles, our travel section, and we just did a list. We took the last 12 months of articles and we looked at the page view like hits, how much traffic the articles had got. And so then we did it in that order basically. And in the book, obviously we only had room to do like a paragraph on each one. But then what we did was we created a special URL so that people could go and see the whole list of 50, and then they can click into each article if they want to read the whole thing, you know.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:31  That’s great. Did any surprises emerge in terms of what wine travelers were actually interested in versus what you thought they would want in that list?

Amy Wislocki 00:22:41 To be honest, I think the number one was Tuscany like wineries to visit in Tuscany, which is not really much of a surprise because every wine number wants to go to Italy, and specifically probably to Tuscany. There were some quirky things on there. I think we had Uruguay and Franciacorta, for instance. I mean, you wouldn’t necessarily say it’s quirky, but I visited Franciacorta recently. I just had no idea it was such a stunning place. And I remember that was on the top 50. But it’s an hour from Milan and it’s stunning. And a lot of people don’t even know the wines because 80% of the wines are not exported. So this is an example of a place where you could go and it’s a stunning region, and then you can just taste these amazing sparkling wines, which are made in the same way as Champagne but don’t really have the profile of Champagne.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:30 Wow. So you’ve overseen, as you mentioned, Decanter’s transformation from a print only publication to one with robust digital channels, including decanter.com, Decanter Premium. How has digital media transformed wine travel writing and the way people discover destinations other than, of course, Googling it or asking ChatGPT? Are there other ways that the new digital world has influenced.

Amy Wislocki 00:23:53 Things come up now, don’t they? So people will be on social media and things will just come up on your feed that look beautiful. And I guess that’s the advantage of the digital format, is that you get this cut. I mean, obviously it’s lovely to have a coffee table type book that you can sit back with your glass of wine and flick through all these glossy photos and dream about where you’d like to go. But the advantage, obviously, of digital is that they can show you whole reels of a place and show you a video. And I guess that just inspires people then to do more research. So then they might be sparked off by something they see on TikTok or wherever, or Facebook or Instagram. And then they might go to decanter.com to oh, I saw that looks great. Let’s look at Franciacorta and then they might read the whole article. So it’s all should be complimentary really.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:40 And have you noticed a profound influence from wine influencers or however you want to characterize the TikTokers and so on?

Amy Wislocki 00:24:48 They have massive profile and they influence everything, don’t they? So yeah, there is a big rise. I guess it’s mainly in the sense that it’s democratizing wine and helping to bring in a new generation of wine lovers, which is great, which is as it should be. It’s easy to be kind of snooty about these things, but, you know, if it brings more people in, then that’s got to be a good thing.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:09 And in a new edition of this guide, or the next edition, or a companion, if you were to do one, what handful of wine regions would you like to see? Articles have not yet even been commissioned. But what do you think you might add to a new edition?

Amy Wislocki 00:25:23 We couldn’t include everything. There are wine regions and even maybe to see more depth. I mean, what might be really great would be to have a whole travel book on just like France or just Italy. And really do a like deep dive and drill down. And you could have like a map of all the wine regions at the beginning, and then go around all of the wine regions and talk about all of them. Because we didn’t, like with France, I don’t think we’ve got I can’t remember, but I don’t think we’ve got an article on Jura, for instance, which is meant to be stunning. There are lots of places that aren’t mentioned, so that might be nice to do it more in that way.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:00 Yes. And do you think virtual reality or the metaverse or other tools will ever rival the real deal when it comes to wine travel?

Amy Wislocki 00:26:09 Well, no. I mean, it’s not going to put a glass of wine in your hand, is it?

Natalie MacLean 00:26:12 No. That’s true. But that sense of being in the landscape, I don’t think. It can simulate, but it can’t replicate I don’t think.

Amy Wislocki 00:26:21 It’s not really a substitute, is it? At the end of the day?

Natalie MacLean 00:26:24 No, it’s not.

Amy Wislocki 00:26:25 Like it’s not like watching somebody swirl a glass of wine on on social media. It’s not the same as taking a sip.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:31 He’s drinking it. Yes. Is there a question about wine travel you wish people asked more frequently, but they don’t.

Amy Wislocki 00:26:40 Obviously, in the articles we want to try and recommend lots of places and also catering for different budgets and different experiences. So for me it would probably be if I was talking to the authors of the articles, it would be if you could just pick one or what was the one that really stood out to you,  what was the one winery, if you were going to visit one, what would it be and why? Or, just getting them to really narrow it down. Or an insider’s tip that most tourists wouldn’t know. They just really like tapping on that inside knowledge.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:14 How do you want readers to feel after they’ve sort of flipped through this book, even if they don’t read it cover to cover? Some will. But it’s a beautiful book to flip through. What do you hope they take away from it?

Amy Wislocki 00:27:24 Inspiration. At the end of the day, it’s escapism, isn’t it? It’s pure escapism. Sitting down with a book like that, especially if you’ve been sitting at a screen all day working. Hopefully people are reading it with a glass of wine at hand, and it’s just about inspiring people and aspirations. It’s like, I mean, it’s about just having something to work towards and look forward to at the end of the day, because we all need that.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:51 Definitely now more than ever. There’s got to be something to aspire to or to reward ourselves. Before we wrap up, if you could share a bottle of wine with anyone outside of the wine industry, living or dead, who would that be and which wine would you open? And also, where would you want to be to share that wine with them?

Amy Wislocki 00:28:10 So I guess if I went for the kind of historical, interesting figures, I’d probably go for maybe Homer. Because I studied classics at university, so it’d be quite cool to meet Homer. We could probably drink a nice Greek wine together.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:25 Would you meet him in Greece?

Amy Wislocki 00:28:27 Oh, yes. For sure.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:28 Yeah. Of course.

Amy Wislocki 00:28:29 Or Ernest Shackleton. And I mean, I have always wanted to go to the Antarctic, but I think it might be a bit too cold. So to kind of sit and drink a bottle of wine. So maybe not there at that occasion. Yeah. If it was somebody living then maybe I’m quite into politics and stuff, so maybe Mark Carney. I quite fancy meeting him. Or Rory Stewart and Alastair Campbell from this podcast that I listened to, The Rest Is Politics, which is very good. Or even someone who might be like, nice to look at, like Ewan McGregor or something. You know, so very eclectic.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:00 I’ve got the whole range there. You could have a dinner party.

Amy Wislocki 00:29:03 But as for the wine, I have got wines that I’ve tasted in my life and really, really they’re wow moments for me. Like Haut-Brion white I tasted like shortly after I joined Decanter. That is an amazing wine and I don’t even think I’ve tried it since. Clos from Alsace. The Riesling. Amazing. You could have just have a nice bottle of Champagne or something. But at the end of the day, if I was going to be having dinner with those people or sharing, it wouldn’t be about the wine. It would be about them. So I might not want to drink something that’s going to distract too much from it. So I might just have a nice bottle of Rosé or  a Greek Xinomavro or something like that.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:41 That’s practical thinking. And if you could put up a billboard in downtown London, what would it say?

Amy Wislocki 00:29:48 Probably be something like, don’t be so materialistic. I do like that saying. That’s like happiness is wanting what you have, not having what you want. Because in downtown London, it’s also about shopping and materialism or something. Or I guess it could be something like cherish every moment. But it all sounds a bit like cliche, but something that might just stop and make people like, oh yeah, remember.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:08 Wonderful. Is there anything we haven’t covered that you’d like to mention, Amy?

Amy Wislocki 00:30:14 Not really. I mean, I guess the only thing would be. We are celebrating our 50th anniversary.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:24 Congratulations.

Amy Wislocki 00:30:26 Thank you. I mean, obviously, I was only three when it started, but. So it’s not all down to me, but it would be really interesting to hear from kind of long time subscribers or even like new subscribers who haven’t been reading the magazine very long, just about their experiences of cancer and what they gain from it. And it can be interesting.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:42 Absolutely. So if you want to get in touch with Amy, you can email me at [email protected] and I will put you in touch with Amy as she’d love to hear from you. And where can we find you and your magazine, your book online?

Amy Wislocki 00:30:55 Well, obviously decanter.com is our main website and you can access Decanter Premium from there. That’s really the hub for everything. Decanter is also on social media as well obviously with Instagram and Facebook. You know, we’ve got a social media editor. We do have our social channels as well.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:12 Terrific. And the book will probably be available on most bookstores, I would assume. Amazon. Chapters.

Amy Wislocki 00:31:16  It probably is on Amazon. So this is the book.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:21 Oh, there’s the book. Beautiful. So for those who are just listening, it is a gorgeous coffee table book. A hardcover. Big beautiful photos. So definitely worth getting.

Amy Wislocki 00:31:31 So it’s called the Ultimate Wine Lovers Travel Guide.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:34 Okay. So be sure to pick up your copy. Two of you will win copies, but why chance it? Just get your own copy so that you have it and can start dreaming about your next wine vacation. Amy, thank you so much for this wonderful tips and stories. I’m going to say goodbye for now, but thank you for your time and thank you for sharing your expertise.

Amy Wislocki 00:31:38 Thank you.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:35 Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Amy. Here are my takeaways. Number one. What turns a wine country visit into an incredibly memorable experience? Amy advises to mix it up a bit and not cram too much into a day, because then it becomes stressful. And I have to say agreed 100%. Plan a bit and that will make it the perfect day. Often you need to book in advance, so maybe just two winery visits a day, one in the morning, one in the afternoon. I like that pace to go somewhere for lunch where you can sit outside and enjoy the beautiful views. Get some fresh air. You might be able to hire a bicycle or go for a hike in the vineyards. See a beautiful village that has some nice culture or some architectural churches. Kind of mix it up a bit.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:42 Number two. What are the hidden perks of off peak wine travel? Amy says the main thing is that the winemaker might have more time to spend with you. There may be certain times of the year that are really busy, not only in terms of tourists, but also in terms of winemaking. Also, you have a higher chance of just being able to get into some of the most sought after wineries. There might be some wineries that are just booked for ages.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:56 And number three. How has digital media transformed the way people plan wine travel? Amy observes that on social media, you can watch videos and reels of the place, which inspires people to do more research. So they might be sparked by something they saw on TikTok or Instagram, and then they might go to Decanter and read a more in-depth article. So it’s all complimentary. In the show notes, you’ll find the full transcript of my conversation with Amy, links to the Decanter website, and book the video versions of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube live, and where you can order my book online now, no matter where you live.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:31 If you missed episode 49, go back and take a listen. I chat with writer Stephanie Piche about flying with flavour, travel and wine stories. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Stephanie Piche 00:34:01 The classic chorizo. I used to do one, which is really fascinating. It’s really easy, and I don’t even have to write a recipe for anyone for this. Take a fresh chorizo sausage. Just roast it enough so that you can slice it in pieces, and then top it with red wine and you’re poaching it. So you’re actually cooking the chorizo in red wine. So all of the garlic and paprika inside the sausage comes out into the wine. It kind of makes its own sauce. And the chorizo takes on a whole different flavour because it’s been poached in the red wine. And then just pairing that with a classic Rioja, maybe a Crianza or something. The chorizo, I think, is going to overpower a little bit. If you have something that’s too big and bold, it kind of like Spain on a little plate. That little bit of meat and that little bit of fat and a little bit of red wine sauce. And then the classic Rioja. That’s pretty much what everyone would have at 6 o’clock on a Wednesday afternoon in Spain.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:54 You won’t want to miss next week when we chat with Susan Lin, a Master of Wine and Master of Fine Arts in classical piano and musicology. We’ll chat about the interaction of music and wine when Susan joins us from her home in San Francisco. If you liked this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell a friend about the podcast this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in learning more about wine, travel tips and destinations. It’s easy to find the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. Just tell them to search for Natalie MacLean Wine on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favourite podcast app, or they can listen to the show on my website at nataliemaclean.com/podcast. Email me if you’re a sip, tip, question, or if you’d like to win one of two copies of the books I have to give away. I’d also love to hear your thoughts on this episode, or if you’ve read my book or are listening to it. Email me at [email protected]. In the show notes, you’ll find a link to take a free online food and wine pairing class with me called The Five Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes that can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever at nataliemaclean.com/class. That’s all in the show notes at nataliemaclean.com/345. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week, perhaps a wine that you discovered off season or off the beaten track?

Natalie MacLean 00:36:11 You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at nataliemaclean.com/podcast. Meet me here next week. Cheers.

 

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