What Surprises Did a Magical Dom Pérignon Champagne Tasting of 60 Rare Vintages Reveal? Elva Ramirez Shares Her Story in “Sparkling”

Natalie MacLean 00:00:01 How did a magical Dom Perignon champagne tasting of more than 60 rare vintages reveal the surprising depth and aging potential of sparkling rosé. What surprising role did the British play in the discovery of sparkling wine? And what makes the porn star Martini one of the most crowd pleasing cocktails? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in our chat with Elva Ramirez, author of the award winning books Sparkling and Zero Proof. By the end of our conversation, you’ll also discover what happened when Elva accidentally triggered an alarm at Berkley Go’s private estate in champagne, France. How her career is A Wall Street Journal reporter led her into the world of cocktails and champagne. How years of working in restaurants taught Elva to speak bartender and shaped her storytelling style. How? Elvis book sparkling showcases the creativity of world class bartenders and champagne producers. Why champagne dominated New York’s Gilded Age, and why most of it was consumed within just a few city blocks. How bartenders in the 1800s turned champagne into a cultural symbol of luxury and celebration.

Natalie MacLean 00:01:23 The stories behind Prince Albert Edwards Prince of Wales cocktail and Ernest Hemingway’s death in the afternoon. I wonder if that one’s related to the porn star martini. Any who and why bartenders should never shake sparkling wine. Duh. And how to preserve those delicate bubbles. More importantly, how to choose the right sparkling wine for cocktails and when to skip the luxury bottles, and why Lambrusco should be considered as a serious fruit forward sparkling wine rather than a sweet afterthought.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:00 Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:42 Welcome to episode 362. So what is new in the wine world, my friend? Well, in a surprising move this week, we must talk about the Michelin Guide.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:53 That’s right. The famous restaurant guide known for its three star system that’s just announced, it will soon begin rating wines. Mind you, the wine world is already buzzing with speculation. Will it be a 1 to 3 quarks system? Will they rate the producers or the bottles? It opens up a world of questions about who gets to be the ultimate arbiter of wine quality, especially now that the famous US critic Robert Parker has retired. The idea, though, of a tyre company rating the best wine in the world is odd. But then again, so is the idea of a lawyer rating wines in the 1970s when Parker first emerged on the scene. By the way, I’m watching an excellent documentary right now on Apple TV about restaurants trying to earn a michelin star and the crazy, crazy things they do to get one. I think it’s called Knife Edge. In other restaurant news, more and more establishments are focusing on premium experiences, such as curating focused story rich wine lists and offering mini wine flights to encourage experimentation without commitment.

Natalie MacLean 00:04:00 Gosh, that sounds like a modern day relationship. Let’s try experimentation without commitment. Interestingly, the price floor for quality wine in retail is now rising across North America, with 12 to $15 becoming the new entry level, while wines under $10 continue to see sharp declines. Meanwhile, a New York restaurant accidentally poured a $5,000 bottle of a rare wine for diners who had ordered the $18 house pour. And the customers so sadly, had absolutely no idea until the staff confessed to them after the meal. The lucky or unlucky, depending on your perspective. Patrons just shrugged and said, yeah, it was good I guess. Oh my gosh. Leaving the restaurant to eat through the loss through insurance and the manager to update his resume in auction news, a magnum of 1870 Chateau Lafite Rothschild from Jacqueline de Rothschild s legendary cellar sold for $387,000 at Zachary’s in September, part of a historic sale that set 162 world records and brought in $11.1 million, quadruple the estimate. The wines had never left the cellars where they had been stored since release, making them some of the most impeccably provenance bottles ever to hit the auction block.

Natalie MacLean 00:05:27 November 6th is both National Nachos Day and National Men Make Dinner Day, while the other 364 days are national. Women have to make dinner every day. Days. Anyway, let’s not go down that rabbit hole. So, gentlemen, fire up those skillets and crack open a smoky Tempranillo with your loaded nachos. Or keep it classy with the Sauvignon blanc if you’re going the fish taco route. November 7th brings International Merlot Day. Why not mark it with an unusual pairing like a chili dog? Because life’s too short for boring wine holidays. How’s the harvest going? Glad you asked. Ontario. Warm summer plus sunny September October. Bumper crop and confident quality talk for Niagara. Look for very ripe cab franc cab Sauvignon structured Pinot. BC growers are focused on getting 100% BC wines returning into the bottle, because they have been allowed to purchase fruit from elsewhere during the freeze of 2024 that just devastated them. Québec and Nova Scotia they have been picking in tight windows but are almost finished across the pond. France kicked off harvest early due to brutal August heat approaching more than 104°F, with champagne, Burgundy and Loir all seeing marked Advancement in grape ripening.

Natalie MacLean 00:06:55 Bordeaux is running 10 to 12 days ahead of schedule. Meanwhile, California’s crush landed at 3.2 million tons, the smallest since 2008. Phylloxera has been discovered on the Spanish Canary Islands for the first time in 500 years of winemaking, threatening the archipelago’s ancient undrafted vines that are grown using traditional braided branch methods called a cordon in volcanic soils. Winemakers and officials are scrambling to respond, hoping that volcanic terroir rapid action might contain the dreaded root louse before it devastates these historical vineyards that have somehow dodged the pest since the late 1800s. In marketing moves, Pinterest 2025 report is pushing wineries toward apres ski luxury campaigns, cherry red aesthetic moments and sustainability storytelling. Basically, cozy indulgence meets eco consciousness meets Instagrammable pops of color. If you have some wine, news or a quirky story you think I should share on the podcast. Email me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com. I’m also sharing wine news and reviews on Instagram where I’m at Natalie MacLean wine. So follow me there and I’ll follow you back. Recently, I was on CTV’s The Social to chat about fall wines that captured the essence of the season.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:15 I was thinking about fall is my Super Bowl, but with better drinks and snacks. There’s harvest, there’s color, there’s ups, there’s downs, there’s emotional highs and lows. Yes, I can get emotional too. As a wine lover. So what do I consider when I’m recommending wines for fall? Well, it’s about transition and comfort, so I look for wines that can shift from patio sipping to sweater weather. And oh, of course I mistake that for cellar weather. Basically, these are wines with serious commitment issues that actually work in your favor. They have enough character to stand up to heartier fall dishes with some brightness and acidity to keep things lively. They’re the perfect middle ground between. I need ice in my glass and I need a blanket on my shoulders. The first wine I had was the Mastro Nardi Pinot Grigio from Kingsville, Ontario. This zesty white delivers green apple aromas like you’re stepping into a snow dappled fall orchard. It has a long, dry finish to carry those crisp fall flavors.

Natalie MacLean 00:09:14 This wine is only 1695. That’s less than what most people spend on pumpkin spice drinks in a single week. And yet, this wine actually tastes great. Plus, you can drink it without having to explain your order to a very confused barista. Yes. Oak milk. No. No, wait. Almond. Wait. No. Coconut. Actually, just. I’ll have the wine. Thanks. As a teenager, owner Rino Donati used to ride his bike by this vineyard on his way to school and envisioned owning it one day. Reno is clearly a peak manifesto for today. As the sole owner, he grows nine different grapes on this historic vineyard that dates back to the 1980s. Proving southern Ontario can nurture world class vines with a growing season is the longest in the country. So why do I recommend this for fall? Will this Pinot Grigio bridge is that beautiful gap between seasons? Perfectly. Those green apple notes remind us of apple picking season and fall harvest, while the crisp, dry finish is perfect for a hearty squash soup, it’s the cashmere sweater of white wines light, elegant, but just warm enough for when the temperature dips.

Natalie MacLean 00:10:22 Our next wine is a zesty gem from the famous Vino Verde region of Portugal. It has the soundtrack and smell of fall rain on cobblestones, along with vibrant notes of lime zest. The light fizz adds a festive charm, while the crisp acidity cuts through the rich fall dishes beautifully. Animas is the name of the wine and it’s produced by Vincent Florio Vineyards, a winery committed to farming organically and reducing its environmental impact. They’re saving the planet. One delicious bottle at a time. We’re helping by drinking it. Teamwork. At just 1195, it’s perfect for all those spontaneous fall get togethers when friends drop by. You’ll look effortlessly prepared. Even if your fridge just has hummus and hope. What makes it a fall? Wine? Well, it’s subtle fizz and lemon lime zest. Lift any rich dish. Kind of like a squeeze of lemon on roast chicken. And it’s proof that fall doesn’t mean you have to abandon white wines. You just need a little zesty brightness to cut through the rich autumn comfort food. That light effervescence adds a celebratory touch for fall gatherings.

Natalie MacLean 00:11:33 It’s the liquid equivalent of jumping in a pile of leaves. Fun, fresh and invigorating. I also have the South Brook Triomphe Cabernet Sauvignon from Niagara. This bold beauty showcases the elegance of Canadian Cabernet Sauvignon with its signature blackberries and kisses. South Brook is a triple pioneer in regenerative organic viticulture, biodynamic farming and sustainable winery architecture. They’re basically the overachievers of the wine world. And you know what? I might even be jealous if the wine wasn’t so darn good. And although this wine is 29.95, it tastes like a $60 wine. It is the most Canadian of wines. Unassuming, but surprisingly impressive once you get to know it. Why? For fall, this wine tastes like a fall walk through a Canadian forest. You get notes of wood smoke and dried leaves that scream autumn while the dark fruit won’t overwhelm your food. This is the one you want when you’re gathered around a Sunday roast. It has structure that gives it backbone, yet it’s never brash again. So Canadian. Next up we have the Sangiovese superior from Romagna, Italy.

Natalie MacLean 00:12:45 another excellent value at $20. This classic Sangiovese embodies the rustic charm of autumn, with its cherry fruit core wrapped in earthy undertones. The wine shows beautiful balance and complexity that makes your mouth water when you pair it with heartier fall fare. The Padre del Napoli winery that produces pronto has been family owned since 1929. The ravioli family has been respected for their sustainable winery design and winemaking from vineyard to glass. With the fourth generation in charge, they’ve clearly cracked the code on family business without family drama. Why for fall? Well, this Sangiovese feels like a warm hug in a glass. Those earthy notes pair beautifully with fall’s mushroom season. This wine is made for hearty Italian comfort foods that we crave when the temperatures drop. Think pasta bolognese or mushroom risotto. It tastes like you’re dining in the Italian countryside during the harvest. And finally we are looking at Castelletto del Diablo, Devil’s Carnival, fabulous Red from Chile at just 1390. It’s a steal of a fall deal. You can buy two bottles, one for now and one for future.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:59 You. Who also deserves nice things? This vibrant Chilean blend brings together Carmen Air and Cabernet Sauvignon in a celebration of dark plums and spices that will warm you from within. It’s a party for your taste buds and why for fall? Well, those warming spices and dark plum notes are exactly what we crave as the days get shorter and cooler. This bold blend has the body and richness to stand up to hearty stews, making it perfect for fall entertaining. Whether that’s a dinner party for 12 or you’re just entertaining yourself on a Tuesday night in your fuzzy slippers. So here’s the falling leaves, rising spirits and friends who celebrate the seasons with us. Life’s too short to wait for a special occasion. Sometimes Tuesday is reason enough on upcoming TV shows such as CTV or Morning City TV’s Breakfast Television, CTV, Cp24 Breakfast Show, CHC Morning Live and CTV’s The Social will be chatting about terrific wines and spirits for holiday celebrations and gift giving. Believe it or not, we’re already planning our driest January with low and no alcohol drinks, as well as those low in calories and sugar, plus romantic wines and spirits for Valentine’s Day.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:12 Let me know if you’d like your brand featured on these TV segments, or for future TV shows, or would like to advertise with us through our podcast, newsletter, website, social media or mobile apps. If you represent a winery, distillery, brewery, or an agency or regional council that represents wine, spirits, cocktails, cheese or other food brands. Email me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com. Back to today’s episode. Three of you are going to win a copy of Elva Ramirez terrific book, sparkling. There’s all these wonderful sparkling wine cocktails so perfect for the holidays. I also still have two copies of Andy Neither and James Marsters fabulous new book, Rooted and Changed the Stories Behind Sustainable Wine. Two copies of Doctor Tuffy Meyer’s book The Wines of Brazil, and one of Sarah Jane Evans book, The Wines of Central and Southern Spain from Catalunya to Cadiz. If you’d like to win a copy of these eight books, email me. Just let me know. It doesn’t matter where you live, I’ll choose people randomly, keep them for yourself or give them as gifts.

Natalie MacLean 00:16:21 And if you’re reading or listening to my memoir, Wine Witch on Fire Rising from the ashes of Divorce, defamation, and Drinking Too Much, it’s got a holiday theme, too, and a happy ending. Spoiler alert. National bestseller one of Amazon’s best books of the year. I’d love to hear from you, Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com, and I’ll put a link in the show notes to all the retailers worldwide. Natalie MacLean dot com. Forward slash 362. Okey dokey on with the show. Elva Ramirez is an author, journalist and brand strategist. She is the author of Sparkling and Zero Proof, which were both finalists for Best Cocktail Book at the tales of the cocktail in the respective year’s very prestigious competition. Sparkling is a finalist for the IACP 2025 Best Cookbook Awards. Another toughie. Elva holds an MBA from Cuny Baruch College and a master’s in journalism from Columbia University, and she joins us now from her home in Brooklyn, New York. Elva, we’re so glad you’re here with us.

Elva Ramirez 00:17:28 Hi.

Elva Ramirez 00:17:28 Thank you for having me. I’m so honored to be here. Anytime that I can spend time about wine and cocktails. You know, it’s an A-plus day, so thank you so much.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:35 Well, you have an effervescent personality. I can see that already. You went toward the topics you did. All right. Great. Let’s start with one of your more memorable wine moments. Tell us about the time you were tasting Veuve Clicquot over in France. Where were you? What happened?

Elva Ramirez 00:17:49 So some of the bonus of writing a book about sparkling wine is that you get to call up your French wine friends and say, hey, I’m doing research, or how can you help me with my research? I was in France, Andras. So where a lot of the my zones are, and I had set up this interview with the brand ambassador. I’m a friend of the brand. They knew it was coming and it just happened to be a French holiday. I don’t know what it was, but basically everything was shut down.

Elva Ramirez 00:18:13 No one was working that day. And so we met at the main headquarters, but she wanted to take me to this Veuve Clicquot chateau. That’s just a little bit outside. It’s not really open to the public, and it’s where they grow all the fruit and the produce that is served at these like VIP dinners, you know, at some of their events. So we went and like I said, it was a holiday and we couldn’t find that she had the keys. We were supposed to be there, but we couldn’t get in and I noticed a side door. So I was like, hey, let’s try the door. We try the door and immediately it’s like alarms everywhere. Oh, it was like, oh my God, the police are gonna come. The French wine police are about to, like, drag me to jail. And it was just it was really funny because there was just no one around, and it actually took a minute for her to contact and get in touch with actual HQ for them to turn off the security.

Elva Ramirez 00:19:00 But I definitely had a moment. I was like, wow, I’m about to get arrested. This is great.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:05 That’s quite a memorable. You must have needed to actually swallow some glasses of wine, not spit them out after that.

Elva Ramirez 00:19:12 I love that. No, but the upside is, you know, she called. Everything was fine. We went in and we had this whole chateau to ourselves. It was just. It was really beautiful. It was just like I said, I forget what it’s called, but it’s just like this private house that a lot of people don’t get to see. So there was like these gardens that she took me, got to see these like gorgeous little strawberries that they grow. And of course, you know, we had champagne and it was quite lovely. It was it was really, really it was beautiful weather. So it was just like this. Very like French wine moment, but luckily was not. But I was like, well, that would have been a flex though.

Elva Ramirez 00:19:43 That would have been like asking me anything. Like was arrested by the French wine police, but for drinking champagne. Yeah. I was like, well, this is very own brand.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:53 That’s great.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:54 So you began your career at the Wall Street Journal and you’ve written for publications like Bloomberg Business and Rolling Stone. So what drew you from business and cultural journalism over into the world of wine, spirits and cocktails?

Elva Ramirez 00:20:07 It’s two parts. One, early on in my career at the Journal, I was covering Fashion Week. We had an online blog at the time, so I was doing all the online coverage for Fashion Week and you probably know is. But when the fashion people throw parties, they invite the liquor people. So very soon, so very soon, the liquor people were inviting me out to their events and I was like, oh, I like the liquor people more than I like the fashion people. That’s great. So I started, so I started naturally going in that direction. But what also really helped me is that I have like this background in hospitality and that my very first job was a waitress when I was 15.

Elva Ramirez 00:20:39 It was at the diner in Los Angeles. But starting from the age of 15 to the very, very last weekend before I started graduate school, I was a waitress or a cocktail waitress in all sorts of different kinds of restaurants. And so when I started going to these liquor events and meeting brand ambassadors and bartenders, I basically say, I speak bartender, right? Like, I understood the stories they were telling. And I also understood some of the pressures they’re under when they’re very consumer facing. So I ended up writing a lot of stories from that point of view, which really helped me a lot. And it was just like a natural fit. Like, that’s my tribe. Like I’ve always been industry. And so becoming a reporter in the spirits and wine space just was a natural fit, because I really understood how they think about things, whether it’s the production of something, the the serving of the drink, like why this particular little flower, this particular garnish matters. I kind of came in with that sensitivity to their work.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:33 Oh that’s great. And you remain well dressed, even despite leaving the fashion industry. So there.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:38 You go.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:39 Was there a particular sparkling wine that was an Sparkling wine for you, because you seemed to have a focus on bubbly.

Elva Ramirez 00:21:47 Oh my God, I have to tell you the story. It is the best night in my life. March of 2016. And Dom Pérignon was releasing a new rosé vintage at the time. And so what they did is they threw this massive party in the space that the public hadn’t seen for a very long time. It’s the Walter de Maria house. He’s a artist. He was a recluse. So up until the time he died, no one had seen the inside of the space. And very quickly it was going to be sold to become an art gallery or whatever. But for a very short time, there’s a moment to be able to throw a party in it and don’t pay. Anyone swooped in to do a whole week of parties and I was invited to this one dinner.

Elva Ramirez 00:22:27 I will never forget it. It was basically a portfolio dinner serving every Dom Perignon Rosé ever released asterisks except two, because they just couldn’t find. There’s two that they couldn’t. There’s one they couldn’t find even in the cellars and among the collectors. And one just hadn’t aged well. But other than that, wow. It was basically every single rosé released. Going back, I think the very first one was a gift to the Shah of Iran in 1960, and the first one for sale was 1962. Good Lord.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:58 Did it age all right. I thought rosé was for immediate consumption.

Elva Ramirez 00:23:03 That was my moment because. Oh, and I got to tell you the setting for this, I was the only media. There was a woman who was like the head of, like, marketing or like the community. She was part of the marketing team. And then there’s Richard, who was the chef de cop before Vincent right now. And then the rest were, I think, 9 or 10 collectors. So I was the only media, and then the rest were pretty much it was collectors, including Carmelo Anthony.

Elva Ramirez 00:23:27 And when we came in, it was like this loft situation you can imagine almost Alice in Wonderland type table. So it’s this long table, but it wasn’t like 9 or 10 of us. And between me and the next person near me, there was like all the space, like space on either side. And I don’t think at the time being like, why am I so far away from the next person? There’s no one here. And there’s like markers on the table. Maybe you see where I’m going with this. But as they start serving the wines and each course was a different decade. So we started in the aughts for appetizers, and the first course was 90s and then going back. So each course was different wines. And so you just wrote down the year on your glass and you would just push it back. They didn’t take away your wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:09 Oh that’s good.

Elva Ramirez 00:24:11 Yeah. And so what was the moment for me was up until about the mid 80s. So this is like they were serving like I think starting the as like 2010 maybe up until the arts in the 90s, it’s still a fresh sparkling rosé that we know like you know, very pink, very light, very pretty.

Elva Ramirez 00:24:29 But then as we start, I remember getting to like the 80s and also and the color completely deepens. And also it becomes like a deep right in all of these, you know, characters that come out of it.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:39 Really?

Elva Ramirez 00:24:40 Yes. That to me is my wine moment. The fact that it had aged so well and we had, you know, it went all the way back to the 70s and of course, some of the 60s, I think, I think it was the 64 was the one we couldn’t have, but I think we had 62. But then we, they were like, oh, we couldn’t get the 64 rose, but here’s the 64.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:59 Here’s the, here’s.

Elva Ramirez 00:25:00 The 64 blank, the blank. And we’re like, great, thanks. I tell you, this is like the most impeccable night. But yeah, that to me was like, oh, Rose actually can age. And the longer at age especially, it’s a really fine one. You get these like stronger Pinot characteristics and it just becomes the red just deepens deepens.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:17 Well, well that makes sense because Pinot noir can age for decades. So that that makes sense. And it’s a beautiful sparkling wine that has as its base.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:25 I think Pinot, Chardonnay, Pinot Meunier, maybe, but what does a bottle? I don’t even know. Is it a bottle of Dom Pérignon? These days, especially the rosé, which is more rare. Rarer than the regular. Is it like. Okay, we’re talking Canadian US dollars here. So up here it would be, I don’t know, $400 or something. It’s really expensive. 500 maybe.

Elva Ramirez 00:25:46 I don’t even know.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:47 Yeah, it’s way up there. But anyway, just to give context for those who may not be familiar with Dom Perignon, it’s the king of wine, of sparkling wines.

Elva Ramirez 00:25:54 It is. And so also to give context, you know, this was a dinner hosted by Dom Pérignon, by the brand. So they went deep into their cellars. There were like 1 or 2 bottles where I was serving, and they’re like, that’s it.

Elva Ramirez 00:26:05 That’s the that’s our last bottle from the cellar. No, more like, that’s it, we’re done. But even just to fill out for the dinner, they asked the collectors who were there that night to donate some of their stash. Basically, there would be enough. And, you know, they can fill any gaps of bottles that you couldn’t that people couldn’t find, for example. And I remember just sitting there just listening to people talk around me. And it was really interesting because, you know, I’m sure, you know, wine people, they have their own jargon and they were just speaking so fast and talking. It was such a like really, really fast education because I, I knew a little bit about wine, but I’m saying I didn’t know as much about wine then as I do now. And I almost think about that night as like the beginning of, like, my real education and how complex and beautiful I really aged one can be. And they were just like talking so quickly.

Elva Ramirez 00:26:50 I learned a lot. They were wonderful. My one regret. I have one regret about that night. Maybe you’ll understand. I was covering this event for the Wall Street Journal, so I had to leave that night. Go straight. I had to leave at like I think we were wrapping up at 11 p.m. and 1030 11. I had to go home so that I could sleep for a few hours, wake up at like five in the morning, and file the peace because I was running in the paper so I couldn’t even stay. Like I laughed and they were all basically desert. And then what happened was with the bottles, they still had wine. They were all sort of lined up against the wall, and you could just kind of go up and take more. And and they were just such a lovely group of people, I the way I wanted to stay, but I couldn’t because I needed to, like I was there for work.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:32 Could you not get a to go bottle?

Elva Ramirez 00:27:34 Like I wish, but the way I’m so thankful for LVMH for that.

Elva Ramirez 00:27:39 I mean, that is really like my favorite. My favorite is literally like not just my wine memory, but like just my favorite night. Like of all time. Like nothing will ever beat that.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:47 Yeah. Stick with that one. Yes. For sure. So let’s get on to your book, sparkling. Tell us in a nutshell what is it about and what makes it different from other books that might be similar, whether they’re cocktails or books about sparkling wine, that sort of thing.

Elva Ramirez 00:28:02 So one of the things that I feel like that I bring to the table, that maybe author Stone is because I covered wine and spirits for such a long time and cocktails for such a long time. I have bartender friends all over the world, and so what I feel like this book brings is that it has recipes that are designed by really top bartenders at some of the world’s top bars, like Temple Bar and Dante here in New York. But I also, because I have brand friends, I went directly to say Moet or Coco.

Elva Ramirez 00:28:29 And I said, hey, do you have some cocktail recipes that have been designed specifically for you that you can share? And so it’s informed by really great recipes featuring some of these really great brands.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:40 That’s fantastic. What was the most surprising thing you learned while you were researching or writing sparkling?

Elva Ramirez 00:28:46 You know, I would say that the sparkling wine is a lot older than I thought it was. The champagne region rose in particular. That area is famous for wine for a very, very long time, and it’s believed that people have been making wine there since before the Roman era. But we don’t really know exactly how long, because there weren’t any really real records kept until the Romans came about. And wine would develop bubbles at the time, but they were considered a nuisance. They weren’t desirable. And so it wasn’t until much later, and they actually would actively try to get rid of the bubbles. And so I didn’t know. Yeah. And then the other factoid is that the English are actually credited with.

Elva Ramirez 00:29:26 I put quotes inventing sparkling wine, and it’s not so much that they invented it as that. They figured out how to make the bubbles happen, and they figured out that they liked it. So bubbles have sort of shown up before, but it wasn’t in a in a desirable way because bubbles actually could have ruined good wine. And so there were two things. So the idea that sparkling wine was invented, it was more likely it was discovered by the British, not so much invented by the British, but it is actually older than we actually might think.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:53 Yeah. And you say it was in the 1670s, a full decade before France, and then back to Dom Perignon. He was given the task of getting rid of those damn bubbles. We all think he created the bubbles, but he was really all about blending or other things, perfecting the champagne. But it was meant to be flat, right?

Elva Ramirez 00:30:13 It was that. So? How it came about was the English have long been a big market for French wine, so at the time still wines from Remus were shipped in barrels.

Elva Ramirez 00:30:23 It would be many years before the French would be allowed to ship in glass. So the English would get these really lovely wines in a barrel, but they wanted to keep it fresh for a much longer time. So they started putting it in glass and also borrowing from expertise that they had from cider making. They would add possibly sugar or possibly brandy to the wine to keep it fresh. And lo and behold, that would jumpstart some secondary fermentation. And when they opened the wine, they realized that it had bubbles and they started asking for it. So there’s documentation of British scientists in the 1660s talking about what exactly has happened here. At a chemical level, this was at the same time that Dom Perignon was trying to get rid of the bubbles. He is a master wine, but his fame comes from he’s considered the greatest winemaker of all time, and what he pioneered was assemblage, which is the idea of blending really great wines so that you get a better wine as a result. He did not invent the bubbles.

Elva Ramirez 00:31:21 He’s actually trying to get rid of the bubbles.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:23 Hell of a brand name, though. His name stuck and it’s a good story. You also in the book say in 1895, 80% of champagne drunk in America was coughed in a small section of New York City between Fifth and Eighth avenues and 23rd and 34th streets. What was happening in these neighborhoods? That they were drinking so much champagne?

Elva Ramirez 00:31:43 Oh, I love this. So this was the Gilded Age, but if you’ve seen the really fantastic show from HBO, there are a lot of things happening here. There isn’t just one answer for this, but I’ll give you a few. One is before champagne became really popular, the wines from the Rossi region of France were used in French court and royalty. So just going back centuries, wines from this particular era were linked to royalty. So as champagne starts taking off, one of the early markets for champagne were the Russian tsars. So from the jump, it’s very much considered something that’s like fine and luxurious.

Elva Ramirez 00:32:22 Fast forward here to New York City in the 1890s. Will. 1899, give or take, was the end of the Spanish-American War. So people in New York City are feeling very optimistic. There’s this idea that you’re about to make a lot of money. It’s peace time. You know, champagne was still kind of new. It was at the 1890s. We’re still like, about it’s only about a hundred years old. So it’s new ish. So it has this, like, lovely halo effect. Society ladies drink it at balls. Businessmen drink it during lunch. During, like, business lunches. Here’s a fact where this bleeds over into my other book. Very early on in the temperance movement. Wine was considered no proof or zero proof. So people who considered themselves temperate actually drank champagne and wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:05 Oh, right.

Elva Ramirez 00:33:05 On the very first definition of temper, it would be more like what we would consider moderate moderate drinkers.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:11 That’s one heck of a loophole. Yeah, I like it.

Elva Ramirez 00:33:13 Yeah, yeah.

Elva Ramirez 00:33:14 So there were a lot of reasons for drinking champagne, but one main one was that from very early on, it was established as this lovely luxury product that was also accessible. We’ll say that in the 1890s there were a ton of saloons. It was about one saloon for every 56 Americans, adults in New York City. So that neighborhood that you talk about, it was just like you couldn’t go anywhere without, like, walking into a saloon, basically, which is why people just drink a lot.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:43 That is amazing. Wow. Okay, so the birth of sparkling cocktails you have in your book, Jerry Thomas’s 1862 Bartender’s Guide included champagne cocktails showing that they’ve been intertwined for a long time. Why do you think bartenders then and now were really drawn to mixing with champagne? It’s such an expensive ingredient. Of course, it makes it bubbly and festive, but what was the allure?

Elva Ramirez 00:34:10 Some of those cultural champagne just had this like halo effect people were asking for. It was something that the consumers were asking for.

Elva Ramirez 00:34:17 And so bartenders then, just as bartenders now are going to pay attention to what people like and try to give them things that the consumer wants to drink. What came up in my research for what was going on culturally in terms of champagne was in that Gilded Age 1890s era. Champagne starts showing up in news reports, not as so much a drink, but as this like cultural signifier. So there were like ads for champagne fabrics, for example. So like the color for gowns with champagne, which is like this really pretty gold or like an amber. You start seeing champagne in a lot of pop music at the time. And there was a play, I’m sorry, the name is escaping right now, but there was a play that was sort of the hit of Broadway for a minute that had champagne in the title. So, so champagne was just sort of like in the air, and it was just something that if you were fancy or if you were young, if you were hip, you’d be looking for champagne.

Elva Ramirez 00:35:08 And I think bartenders recognize that. And so we’re able to, you know, experiment and try to come up with something that will sell to people.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:16 Interesting. Wow. So you write that the champagne cocktail inspired both a British prince and one of America’s most famous authors to create their own recipes. Tell us a little bit more about the stories behind Prince Albert Edwards and Ernest Hemingway’s contributions to cocktail culture.

Elva Ramirez 00:35:34 Oh, okay. With all due credit to the absolutely wonderful historian Dave Kendrick in his book, he digs up the original like the Prince of Wales cocktail, which is a champagne cocktail. It basically came about because Prince Albert Edwards, the son of Queen Victoria, who is one of the longest running British monarchs, so she lived for a very long time, which means her son didn’t have much to do but to hang about bars and to be an excellent host. So he experimented and he tweaked this cocktail. And it has maraschino rye and pineapple, among other things. It’s it’s quite lovely. It was a pineapple cube and it just seems really, really lovely.

Elva Ramirez 00:36:13 And then. Ernest Hemingway. You may have heard of the death in the afternoon cocktail. Not known that it was Hemingway, but we all know that Hemingway has a very earned reputation for drinking in the early 1930s. These authors asked a bunch of celebrities to contribute original cocktails, and Hemingway was one of them. So he came up with the death in the afternoon. It’s a lot of absinthe. Like if you like licorice, like, this is your drink, like, this is your drink.

Natalie MacLean 00:36:37 And that’s so potent, isn’t it? That’s like a really potent spirit. The green fairy, they call it music caused hallucinations.

Elva Ramirez 00:36:45 Yeah. So the authors in the in the introduction to this book write that, like, few men could take as many shots of absinthe and still maintain control of the English language like Ernest Hemingway, which I believe. So Hemingway came up with this, the death in the afternoon, apparently while he was out with some Navy officers. So I can only imagine what that day looked like.

Elva Ramirez 00:37:05 But it’s a great drink. It’s a classic.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:07 Okay. And was he or his editor who said a write drunk, edit sober or something like that?

Elva Ramirez 00:37:13 And I wouldn’t put it past him. I don’t know that one, but I had that as the ring of truth, I believe it.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:19 Yeah. I don’t know how you write drunk, but I guess fewer inhibitions, I don’t know, but at a certain point, you know, my tasting notes, if I did, that would just descend into. Like this is great.

Elva Ramirez 00:37:32 Yeah. Or just or just like a headache the next morning that was. Can you like an absent headache. I could never like that would be severe. Yeah. Oh that would be just absolutely brutal.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:42 I think they put sugar with it too which would make it even worse.

Elva Ramirez 00:37:45 Oh it is, it is. It’s asked in simple syrup and champagne.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:48 Just the champagne, please.

Elva Ramirez 00:37:50 Yeah, I will say that if you want to try the drink, I personally lowered the fraction of absinthe.

Elva Ramirez 00:37:55 So if you add even like a tiniest little bit the hint, you’ll get some of that really magical, earthy, lovely notes. You don’t have to have the full. I feel like Athens kind of goes a long way and it’s very divisive. So if you wanted to try the death in the afternoon, I would say start with a little bit and then slowly increase it. Defiance to see like what exactly the proportion is that you like for that drink. Because it’s a very much an acquired taste. But I do think it is lovely.

Natalie MacLean 00:38:18 I would change it from death in the afternoon to take it slowly in early evening. I don’t know, like. Anyway, so one last absinthe. Is it dried herbs? Is it sort of woody barky too? Or is it.

Elva Ramirez 00:38:30 Yeah, it’s mostly wormwood.

Natalie MacLean 00:38:32 Wormwood? Yes.

Elva Ramirez 00:38:33 It’s very much the flavor of black licorice. So it’s very much like pastis. Have you ever had deceased?

Natalie MacLean 00:38:38 Yeah, I like yeah. Black licorice. Yeah.

Elva Ramirez 00:38:40 There’s very few things I don’t like.

Elva Ramirez 00:38:41 Like my list of things that I won’t eat is like, super low licorice is on them. Like, it’s. It’s a lot for me.

Natalie MacLean 00:38:47 Like, I don’t want to eat. I’ll get too much.

Elva Ramirez 00:38:50 I can do it. If it’s, like, literally a little eye drop. If you just go, I can get with it, but.

Natalie MacLean 00:38:54 Okay.

Elva Ramirez 00:38:55 Pastis. Licorice. Oh, it’s not for me.

Natalie MacLean 00:38:58 Okay, okay. That’s good. You don’t need to love everything, even if you write about it. Oh, no. You emphasize that bartenders should never shake a fizzy liquid because the pressure will cause the container to explode. Good advice. Have you ever witnessed any sparkling wine disasters? or even if not that, like common mistakes that home bartenders make. That we should keep in mind.

Elva Ramirez 00:39:20 Yeah. So I witnessed the shakers exploding too much because when you’re in your bar, the bartenders kind of know not to do that. But I would say that for a home bartender, this is definitely something to think about.

Elva Ramirez 00:39:30 Because just as you would if you’re making something with like a Coca-Cola, any kind of soda, anything that’s fizzy, you wouldn’t shake that because, you know, if you’re going to shake that bottle, it’s going to go everywhere. Same idea with sparkling wine. But to answer your other question that people might not know about in terms of mistakes to avoid is the bubble in any kind of sparkling wine or delicate? So what you’re going to do is you’re going to make your cocktail with all your ingredients except the champagne, and then you can you can shake and stir that as much as you like, and then you’re just going to add at the end, you’re going to gently top it with champagne and then leave it alone. You might just do like a quick like 1 or 2 stirs to blend and then leave it alone and serve it. So the key is those bubbles are delicate. If you shake it too much, you’re getting rid of your bubbles, is basically. So that’s the key. So I think most people might know not to shake, but what they might not know is not to just like ruin the bubble.

Elva Ramirez 00:40:21 So just be very gentle with it. It goes in at the end. I really don’t. I might do like a quick like one swish and then leave it alone and serve it.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:28 That’s good to know. Not shaken and not stirred. So that’s good. Or stirred? Once, maybe or twice. You recommend that age fine champagnes like Dom Perignon, Renner and Krug have such subtle flavors and smaller bubbles that would be lost in a cocktail. That totally makes sense. How do you decide which sparkling wines go into a cocktail? Are you just looking for under a certain price point, or is it fair game for everything except maybe luxury champagnes?

Elva Ramirez 00:40:56 I love this question because it’s really about your personal palate. There’s no wrong answer, right? But what I tell people is, if I know I’m about to host a party and I’m going to be serving sparkling wines, I will go and buy a bunch of different wines and taste them by themselves first instead of. Make notes to myself. I’m like, oh, this one’s a little bit like has more apple or, you know, more, you know, more, this one’s a little more strawberry, whatever it is.

Elva Ramirez 00:41:21 And then I’ll think about those wines individually with their tasting notes just the same way. Like, you might have a preference for one tequila over another because of its flavor profile. So once you have a sense of what a wine tastes like by itself, then think about how that flavor profile fits into the cocktails that you’re about to make. Like, you might want something that has a little more fruit forward flavors because it goes with the cocktail that you’re making. So it’s not always about price point. I think when I tell people about price point, it’s really if you’re going to do something in for a big party, right? So maybe for a big party, I might need 5 or 6 bottles. I am going to look at a different price point, just because I’m going to have so many of them versus them. I’m just going to have 1 or 2 friends over. So it’s not only about price point. I like to just really do price point, but also really kind of tasting the wines alone by themselves.

Elva Ramirez 00:42:11 First, the wines it’s more about. It’s not just that they’re expensive. It’s just like the. They just tend to be. They’re so, so delicate that once you’re adding any kind of other ingredients you’re going to like mute it, you’re going to mute some of those really, really beautiful flavors. So it isn’t so much that you can’t make a drink with a very fine Dom Perignon. You can. No one’s going to stop you, but you’re not. You’re not really.

Natalie MacLean 00:42:33 If I’m anywhere around.

Elva Ramirez 00:42:35 Oh, exactly. Exactly, exactly.

Elva Ramirez 00:42:37 No, but you’re going to bury some of the beauty of this wine, and you’re not really helping your cocktail necessarily. I do have a recipe in there for Moet that does use Moet, and I think it’s Brandy. I’m sorry, I’m forgetting some of the details right now, but it was so simple. It was so elegant. And so you always want everything to shine. You don’t want to bury any of your different ingredients, whether it’s the wine or it’s the syrup or whatever.

Elva Ramirez 00:43:01 You always want everything to balance out.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:03 Totally makes sense. Now you, as you’ve noted, feature contributions from bartending legends Engines. Douglas. Ancora. I love his name. His porn star martini became instantly iconic when he created it in 2005. You write that he gifted bartending with a luscious sip that people will be enjoying for decades to come. What made this cocktail so revolutionary in addition to its name?

Elva Ramirez 00:43:26 Have you had it before? Have you had a pornstar martini? Oh my God.

Elva Ramirez 00:43:29 Tell us about it. No. Oh, I’m so sad for you.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:33 Novice, I don’t know a ton about cocktails.

Elva Ramirez 00:43:35 Yeah. All right.

Elva Ramirez 00:43:36 All right, let me just set the background, and then I’ll answer your story. The Pornstar Martini features vanilla flavors. I think the original recipe had vanilla vodka, but you can substitute that by adding vanilla syrup. But the main flavors are vanilla, vanilla, vodka base, passionfruit puree, and then probably a little bit of simple to like even it out. And then you shake, shake, shake, shake and you pour that into a coupe.

Elva Ramirez 00:43:57 And then separately, you’re going to serve a very cold shot of champagne or sparkling wine as a shot. So it’s a when you get it, you’re getting two vessels. Oh, and then you garnish it with a passion fruit of some kind, whether however you want to garnish it. You know, if you do the slice or whatever. So you’re getting this drink that’s like bright orange. It tastes beautifully citrus, but it has this has this vanilla. So it’s kind of like a very creamsicle type of flavor profile. And then you have the shot of champagne on the side. So instantly it was a hit because the combination of vanilla and passion fruit, people get it right away. It’s like a very like has mass appeal. You understand those flavors, you understand this, you’re probably going to like it. And then also, it was just kind of interesting to have two things served inside. It’s inspired by a boilermaker, which is when you order a beer and a shot together. So this was like a cocktail and a shot.

Elva Ramirez 00:44:46 So when you get this, you have a choice. You can drink one and then drink the other, or you can take the shot and pour it in the glass. And Douglas Anchor has gone on record to say however you do it is correct. There’s no wrong way. I personally think that the champagne cuts through the sweetness and the acidity, so it’s like a palate cleanser. So what I do is when I get one of these drinks is I have the cocktail for a sip of a cocktail and then a sip of the champagne, and you’ll notice, like if you take a sip and then a sip and then go back to your cocktail, you’ll notice that it changes your palate, it cleans out your palate. And so you taste things differently. And so I’ll very slowly alternate between the two. And then kind of when it gets towards the end, I have just a little bit of champagne left. I’ll just drop it into my drink and give it a swirl and finish it. So I start with one way and then and another.

Elva Ramirez 00:45:34 But there really is no there’s no wrong way. And it’s just it’s a really beautiful drink. It’s one of those like, if you’re not sure if you like cocktails, you you’ll like this cocktail. It’s like mass appeal for a reason.

Natalie MacLean 00:45:45 It sounds good. Like, dare I ask why I called it pornstar? Is that even explainable on a PG audience?

Elva Ramirez 00:45:53 Actually, I don’t.

Elva Ramirez 00:45:54 Know if I know this story. I think I know the story, but I don’t remember anything.

Elva Ramirez 00:45:57 That’s okay.

Natalie MacLean 00:45:57 It’s probably some sordid stories.

Elva Ramirez 00:46:00 So if I had to guess, it’s because it has a money shot, which is the you think of like champagne is expensive and expensive shots, a money shot. That’s my theory. If I had to guess, that’s where I think it comes from. But, you know, I might be wrong.

Natalie MacLean 00:46:14 So you write that Lambrusco, the Italian sparkling red wine, has a lush fruitiness that also has tannic edges. How should American or North American drinkers reconsider this wine that’s often dismissed as sweet and simple?

Elva Ramirez 00:46:28 I can see why people would dismiss Lambrusco.

Elva Ramirez 00:46:31 I fell in love with Lambrusco when I was in Emilia-Romagna and having a lot of Lambrusco from small producers, and there is a real difference between some of the things you can get in Italy versus what you can get here. I like Lambrusco because I just think it’s just it’s just fun. It’s just easy. It is accessible and I want that when I’m sitting outside having like outdoor drinks or an outdoor lunch in Italy or New York. You just want something that’s just like, easy. It’s chilled and accessible.

Natalie MacLean 00:46:58 Lots of fruit, dark fruit, flavors.

Elva Ramirez 00:47:00 Of fruit, dark fruit flavors. I just find it sometimes like, you know, just in some ways. Like, sometimes you want a rosé instead of this I love Barolo. I love a complex, earthy, you know, melodramatic wine. But I don’t always want that in the afternoon. And so I found that I find labrusca just to be very, very charming. And there are times when I want bubbles, but I really want so much more of that fruit forward in a way that I might not get that in a, in a traditional still rosé or a sparkling rosé.

Elva Ramirez 00:47:26 Sometimes you just want a little bit more oomph. So if you don’t like Lambrusco, I get it. But also give it a shot. Like you might be surprised about the depth that they actually can bring. There’s some really great small producers in Italy that just do a marvelous job.

Natalie MacLean 00:47:38 Terrific. Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Elva. Here are my takeaways. Number one, how did a magical Dom Perignon champagne tasting dinner of 30 rare vintages reveal the surprising depth and aging potential of sparkling rosé. Well, Elva tells us the story of the best night of her life. I think it would have been the best night for any of us had we been able to participate in all of those. Oh my gosh. Tasting Dom Perignon vintages, rosés which are even rarer, more rare, whatever than the regular. There is no regular Dom Perignon, but you know what I mean. The white version. Can you imagine this massive party in this public space that’s about to be closed? You’re the only media person.

Natalie MacLean 00:48:28 There’s collectors you’re tasting right back. Wow. To the 1960s. That’s just crazy. So good. But she remembers that as they moved into the 80s, the color deepens and the Pinot noir character comes out. The fact it had aged so well really blew them all away. And I can only imagine. I never think of that for rosé number two. What surprising role did the British play? Well, as Elva explains, they’re the ones who are responsible for bubbles not inventing bubbles, but discovering that people actually liked drinking wine with bubbles. Meanwhile, the French and champagne were trying to get rid of them. So it’s kind of interesting. We all think about Dom Pérignon inventing them, but he was a master blender. That was what he brought to the party. Number three, what makes the pornstar Martini one of the most crowd pleasing cocktails? Well, the name for starters, butt is Elva, explains. It features vanilla vodka and passionfruit puree. You know, and you shake it and then you’ve got the champagne shot.

Natalie MacLean 00:49:32 The money shot, she was explaining on the side. So you can mix and match or you can blend them. You can clean your palate. Very interesting. I’ve got to try this one if I can order it without blushing. Oh, I’m so naive anyway. Not naive, but as she said, you can drink them together or mixed. It’s great palate cleanser and you’ll notice how it changes on your palate, I’ll bet. All right. If you missed episode 111, go back and take a listen. I chat about ice wine cocktails with Karen King. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Karen King 00:50:09 We decided to pair a game with spicy appetizers, things like tortilla chips or anything that has a little spicy Chilean heat. Kind of a flavor to it so that people could taste it and see how it pairs because it has a big initial impact of complex fruit. Then it goes through that caramelized flavor, and then it gets into its acidity. And usually at the end there’s another kind of fruit note.

Karen King 00:50:37 In this case it’s the orange tangerine grapefruit note. So I’m going to have you taste it straight up first just so you can notice the last notes. And you really have to pay attention for this.

Karen King 00:50:50 I’m loving that. I don’t think it needs anything.

Karen King 00:50:52 But you mean food.

Natalie MacLean 00:50:55 Yeah. No. Just pair it with more of this.

Natalie MacLean 00:51:03 You won’t want to miss next week when we continue our chat with Elva. If you liked this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell one friend about the podcast this week. Especially someone you know who be interested in learning more about sparkling wine, cocktails or alcohol free wines. It’s easy to find the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. Just tell them to search for that title or my name Natalie MacLean Wine on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favorite podcast app. Or they can listen to the show on my website at Natalie MacLean. Com podcast. Email me if you have a question, or you’d like to win one of eight copies of the books I’m giving away.

Natalie MacLean 00:51:42 I’d also love to hear your thoughts on this episode or my own book. Email me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com. In the show notes, you’ll find a link to take a free online food and wine pairing class with me, called the Five Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner and how to fix them forever. At Natalie MacLean. Com for class. And that’s all. Everything in the show notes at Natalie MacLean 462. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a sparkling wine cocktail or even a porn star martini. I can’t get that thing out of my mind now anyway.

Natalie MacLean 00:52:22 Cheers. You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie MacLean. Com subscribe. Meet me here next week. Cheers.