What Do Wild Orchids Reveal About the Health of a Vineyard and How Does Preschool Turn France Into a Nation of Gourmets?

Natalie MacLean
May28th

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Introduction

How does biodynamic farming transform a vineyard into a thriving, interconnected ecosystem? What do wild orchids reveal about the health of a vineyard? How do France’s preschool lunches help to create a nation of gourmets?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with Caro Feely, author of the terrific memoir Grape Expectations: A Family’s Vineyard Adventure in France.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, Grape Adventures.

 

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Highlights

  • How did Caro’s daughter’s medical emergency shape her perspective on risk?
  • Why did Caro feel like a bad mom in the early years of the winery?
  • How has living in France influenced Caro’s approach to food and wine?
  • When did Caro realize the wine business was becoming financially viable?
  • What are some of the most interesting aspects of biodynamics?
  • What’s the significance of wild orchids in a vineyard?
  • Which wine would Caro pair with her favourite childhood food, marmalade on toast?
  • Why would Caro want to share a bottle of wine with Al Gore?

 

Key Takeaways

  • How does biodynamic farming transform a vineyard into a thriving, interconnected ecosystem?
    • As Caro explains, often biodynamics is just picked on as a woo woo, but really, it’s about listening to your land and being present. Biodynamics is organics, plus. It’s essentially three things: It’s working with plant and animal-based sprays to keep the vineyard healthy, using the biodynamic calendar to do things at the right moment. It’s about listening to what’s going on in the sky. We all notice the sun, but all the other bodies in the sky also have an impact. Lunatic comes from the fact that the moon does have an effect on us. The final thing is to think of your farm as a whole farm system as a living thing where everything is connected. We can’t just look at the vine on its own, like a unit of production. It is a living thing, and it is a vibrant living environment.
  • What do wild orchids reveal about the health of a vineyard?
    • Caro says that when they bought the farm in 2005, it was conventionally farmed. They started organic farming and in 2008 the wild orchids came back. The systemic fungicides had worked their way out of the soil. Essentially, our soil health was coming back. The mycorrhizae, the fungi growing symbiotically with the roots of the vine, helps them to extend their network, to get more nutrients. However, mycorrhizae will not be there if you’re using systemic fungicides.
  • How do France’s preschool lunches help to create a nation of gourmets?
    • Caro loves France’s respect for food and for taking time to enjoy it. There’s a tradition in the country where everybody, no matter what they do, is somewhat of a gourmet and knows about food and wine. She thinks it does go back to schools with their three-course lunch when they’re two and a half at preschool.

 

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I love France’s respect for food and for taking time to enjoy your food and sit down and have a proper lunch. - Caro Feely Caro Feely Click to tweet

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As a vineyard business, as a wine business, biodiversity is absolutely key. - Caro Feely Caro Feely Click to tweet

 

About Caro Feely

Caro Feely is a writer, yoga teacher, wine educator and organic farmer. She leads authentic, personalized and educative wine tours, wine courses, walking tours and yoga retreats near Bordeaux in France. She is a published author, an engaging speaker, a registered Yoga Alliance yoga teacher, a WSET* wine educator, and a professional with many years of workshop, presentation, teaching, and management experience. Caro offers accommodation, tours and yoga at her organic farm in Saussignac.

 

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Transcript

Natalie MacLean 00:00:00 How does biodynamic farming transform a vineyard into a thriving, interconnected ecosystem? What do wild orchids reveal about the health of a vineyard? And how do France’s preschool lunches help create a nation of gourmets? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in part two of our chat with Karen Feely, author of the terrific memoir Grape Expectations A Family’s Vineyard Adventure in France. You don’t need to have listened to part one from last week first, but if you missed it, go back and have a listen after you finish this one. By the end of our conversation, you’ll also discover how Caro’s daughter’s medical emergency shaped her perspective on risk. Why Caro felt like a bad mom in the early years of the winery. How living in France has influenced Caro’s approach to food and wine when she realized her wine business was becoming Financially viable. Some of the most interesting aspects of Biodynamics which wine Carol would pair with her favorite childhood food, marmalade on toast, and why Carol would want to share a bottle of wine with al Gore.

Natalie MacLean 00:01:20 Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started. Welcome to episode 339 on CTV’s Morning Live. We chatted about wines and cocktails for the long weekend. The segment was just ahead of Victoria Day, but the drinks? Well, they’ll continue to work throughout spring and summer and any time of the year. We shared lots of laughs, so if you want to watch the video, I’ll include a link to it in the show. Notes. Victoria Day weekend is just around the corner, and whether you are firing up the grill or lounging on the dock, we’ve got the drinks to match the mood and the food.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:34 You know I love Victoria Day. We get to celebrate a queen and the official start of patio season. So I am here for both the crowns and the corks. The Villa Maria Sauvignon Blanc is like sunshine in a glass. This zesty lemon-lime, juicy mango notes with a whisper of green herbs. It’s made from sustainably grown grapes in the Marlborough region of New Zealand, where the wind from the Pacific keeps everything cool and crisp, just like this wine. If this wine had a dating profile, it would be easygoing. Gets along with everyone. No drama. I’d pair this with dockside ceviche tossed with lime and coriander. Sizzling grilled shrimp skewers with garlic butter, a crunchy arugula salad topped with goat cheese and mango, fresh oysters on crushed ice with a squeeze of lemon, and a citrus-marinated chicken that’s grilled until golden and smoky.

Next, we have the delightful Villa Sparina Gavi di Gavi that’s clean and fresh. This wine has lovely notes of lemon and lime zest, and the iconic curvy bottle is based on a bottle they found in their historic cellar in Italy.

Natalie MacLean 00:03:49 Today, this wine is still a blend of personality and history. It’s family-owned and it’s only $22.95 at the LCBO. I’d pair this with fresh seafood and field greens.

The Anselmi San Vincenzo from Veneto, Italy, is a gorgeous white wine and it’s a blend of organic grapes, which brings richness and complexity to the blend. Freshness from Chardonnay and fruity, floral aromatic notes come from Sauvignon Blanc. The wine is grown in the suave region of northeast Italy and is family-owned. The family, in fact, is involved in all aspects of winemaking. This would be a terrific match for grilled seafood.

And now I have your ultimate barbecue red, Trapiche Malbec. The grapes for this full-bodied wine are grown in the high altitudes of the mountainous region of Mendoza, Argentina, creating a wine of incredible depth, energy and vibrancy. You’ll taste rich blackberry, black cherry and hints of mocha with a touch of spice in this wine. I pair this with a flame-kissed ribeye steak with a peppercorn crust.

Natalie MacLean 00:04:57 Chipotle pulled pork sliders. Grilled portobello mushrooms with balsamic glaze. Smoky barbecue ribs dripping with sauce and a juicy blue cheeseburger with caramelized onions. I’d also pair this with a Victoria Day fireworks feast, featuring slow-smoked beef brisket with a peppery crust and melt-in-your-mouth interior. Charred corn on the cob slathered with chili-lime butter that drips down your fingers, and mushroom caps stuffed with blue cheese and herbs, grilled until bubbly and golden.

And now for those who want something with a kick. Fireball Cinnamon Whisky was originally developed in Canada in the mid-1980s, and has become one of the country’s most popular whisky brands. It’s still made in their old Montréal distillery, a blend of Canadian whisky with natural cinnamon flavour to give it that fiery kick. The brand-new Fireball Apple cinnamon ready-to-drink format in a can brings together ripe, juicy, sparkling apple juice with the cinnamon spice of Fireball. You know, Fireball is like that fun friend who shows up and suddenly everyone’s doing cannonballs off the deck into the water. I’d pair these drinks with a patio platter featuring sticky maple-glazed chicken wings with crispy edges and tender meat that falls off the bone.

Natalie MacLean 00:06:17 Spicy cheese straws twisted into crunchy golden spirals with a hint of cayenne and warm apple turnovers with flaky pastry and cinnamon spiced filling that steams when you break them open. My mouth watering and we need to celebrate a Canadian creation, the Caesar, but with a twist. Although National Caesar Day has come and gone, we’re celebrating it right through the long weekend. Because it was invented by a Canadian in Calgary in 1969, and Parliament made it Canada’s official national cocktail in 2009, which was probably the last time all parties agreed on something. It differs from a Bloody Mary because it’s made from clamato juice, a blend of tomato juice and clam broth, rather than just tomato juice, which gives it more depth and a more briny, savory taste. This is the kind of cocktail that makes your Instagram followers think that you have your life together. Look at me with my garnish drink. When the reality of my unfolded laundry remains conveniently out of the frame.

I’m making this Caesar from Prince Igor Extreme pickled flavoured vodka, brand-new to the LCBO.

Natalie MacLean 00:07:30

This pure, briny brilliance is distilled right here in Ontario, and it brings the shine of the brine to a spicy Caesar with its peppery, pickled notes. What better way to toast a queen than with a prince, garnishing it with Maillard spicy gherkin pickles to provide some heat and crunch to the cocktail? I also have them in a side bowl for nibbling along with my Lord’s sweet-and-sour gherkins. They’re also terrific for your cheese or charcuterie boards and are from Eid Foods in Québec, although they’re available in grocery stores across the country. Now, this reminds me of that tongue twister: “Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.” Try saying that ten times quickly after a Caesar or two. It really packs a pickle-powered punch. My podcast editor is going to love me for all these popping P’s in today’s script. Thanks, Alex.

So I pair this with a Canadian cottage weekend brunch featuring eggs Benedict with back bacon on toasted English muffins smothered in rich hollandaise sauce that slowly cascades down the sides, crispy potato rösti with caramelized edges and a soft centre seasoned with fresh chives, and warm maple-baked beans with smoky bacon bits throughout.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:50 Last but certainly not least, I have something that’s all about easy entertaining. We’re finishing with the Canadian sangria from the Ontario winery Mastronardi. This sangria is a shortcut to the good life. It’s already pre-mixed for you, so all you have to do is pour and add ice. You can also garnish it with fruit if you like. Simple, breezy summer. Easy. It’s for when you want to impress your friends, but acknowledge that you have the mixology skills of a golden retriever. Just pour and suddenly you’re the fancy friend without having to Google anything. This refreshing sangria has lovely notes of citrus, berry, and a touch of sweetness that makes it so crushable. I’d pair this with a sunset tapas spread featuring sizzling garlic shrimp (there’s those shrimp again), still hot from the pan with a sprinkle of smoked paprika and fresh parsley, creamy aioli that you can’t help but dip into again and again, thin slices of Serrano ham arranged in delicate folds, and olives marinated in orange zest and herbs. And a toast to this weekend!

Natalie MacLean 00:09:53 Here’s to. Good friends, great wines and long weekends that linger like a fine finish. And the host asked where we can find these wines and cocktails online. And I answered, why? Thank you for asking me on Instagram. I’m at Natalie MacLean wine and online. My website is Natalie MacLean. Com. Back to today’s episode. Three of you are going to win a copy of the terrific memoir, Grape Expectations A Family’s Vineyard Adventure in France, filled with vivid descriptions of delicious wines, great food and stunning views, and a unique insight into the world of the winemaker. Written by our guest today, Carole Feely. I also still have two copies of the award winning book vines in a Cold Climate by Henry Jeffreys. I’m pleased to say that Maggie Daly from Prince George BC has won a copy of this book. If you’d like to win a copy, please email me and let me know you’d like to win. Doesn’t matter where you live. I’ll choose five winners randomly from those who contact me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean.

Natalie MacLean 00:10:56 Com. In other bookish news, if you’re reading the paperback or e-book or listening to the audiobook of my memoir whine, which on fire rising from the ashes of divorce, defamation and Drinking Too Much, a national bestseller and one of Amazon’s best books of the year. I’d love to hear from you and Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com. I’d be happy to send you beautifully designed, personally signed book plates for the copies you buy or give as gifts. I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers worldwide at Natalie MacLean. Com. 339. The paperback usually arrives within a day or two of ordering. The e-book and audiobook are instantly available. Okay, on with the show. Your daughter Sophia, if I understand correctly, had a life threatening and medical emergency just after birth. How did that experience shape your perspective on risk and influence, especially the decisions you made after that?

Caro Feely 00:11:54 So in fact, I’ve written a book about that as well. It’s called Saving Sophia. So the one that we’ve been talking about the most today is Great Expectations, because it’s the first in the vineyard series.

Caro Feely 00:12:07 So that’s just the.

Natalie MacLean 00:12:08 Four books in the vineyard series.

Caro Feely 00:12:10 Exactly. So four books in the vineyard series. But Saving Sophia is the one that’s about Sophia and the, I guess you’d call it a medical drama. But how did that influence us, I think. It definitely made us, like, seize the day. Like life is here to be grabbed with both hands and, you know, don’t wait forever. And wow, it made us just so much more aware of how precious life is, I think, and how important it is to really do what makes you feel alive. And that was probably part of why we did what we did. And we made the leap that we made.

Natalie MacLean 00:12:55 Yeah, absolutely. It sounds like it. And yet you felt like a bad mom, you say, in the early years. Why did you feel like a bad mom?

Caro Feely 00:13:03 So, like, our first harvest and we had all these harvest machines and tractors and everything in the courtyard right outside our front door.

Caro Feely 00:13:11 And I was so worried that they’d walk out and, you know, get crushed by something, or we’d make them get up. And we got this special walkie talkie system. It’s called talkie walkie in French. It’s amazing how sometimes French words, they just switch the English word to make it French, but it’s called talkie walkie and in French. So we have the talkie walkies. And it was.

Caro Feely 00:13:35 A rule.

Caro Feely 00:13:36 That they did not go off the top step, like the top step at the top of the double story section of the house, so that where their bedroom was they were not allowed to leave the top step. They had to stay there until one of us came in to help them, then come down and get their breakfast and whatnot. I kind of felt like I didn’t have enough time for them. I didn’t give them enough time. So through the books, there are moments where I do feel like the bad mom because I’m not giving them enough attention. But as I said to you, it’s made them very independent young women who I’m extremely proud of.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:10 And seeing their mother in action, living her dream and having a fulfilling career. What a great example.

Caro Feely 00:14:15 Yeah, but I think the story I was particularly thinking of is one I talk about in Great Expectations, which is when, you know, I was so busy, I didn’t do the usual things that a mom with, you know, she was crawling at the time, I think, or maybe just beginning to toddle would have made sure things were certain things were put out of reach and so on. And I just remember Sophia coming running through to the kitchen. Ellie was teething. That’s right. She was teething. So she must have been nearly a year or something. And Sophia came running through to the kitchen. She’s going, Elise got that? Elise got that. Like she knew that was not good. Whatever it was, it wasn’t good. But she didn’t know what it was called. So Sophia. So I went running through Elise got what what Tilly got. And I get there and she’s chewing on the toilet brush.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:04 Oh, my God, she was tweeting.

Caro Feely 00:15:10 I am officially the bad mom. I am so bad. This kid is gonna be so sick. Well, she was totally fine. She was not sick. And she has such a strong immunity, like, I don’t know, but I’m not recommending making your kids do the toilet brush.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:30 Not the toilet brush. But they say kids should play in the dirt and eat dirt.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:34 And all the rest of it. For the natural bacteria.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:37 As you.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:37 Say. And you talk about how your daughters adapted to French culture and the language so quickly you describe at their school they were served sophisticated three course meals. So how has living in France changed your own approach to food and connection with wine and dining?

Caro Feely 00:15:55 Oh yeah. You know, I do love, like, France’s kind of respect for food and for, I guess, taking time to enjoy your food and to sit down and have a proper lunch. Now, it’s probably not that way in all the big cities now.

Caro Feely 00:16:14 I’m sure there are people that land up just grabbing a bite and racing back to their desk, but there’s still definitely that tradition. And to the point where, you know, here I think everybody is kind of a gourmet in a way. It doesn’t matter what you do. You could be a plumber and you still know about food and wine. You could be a teacher and you’ll know about food and wine. You could be anything completely unrelated. Like, you don’t have to be in the business or someone who’s a particularly interested gourmet to really have this appreciation. And I think it does go back to it being in the schools. So this idea of the three course lunch, I think is a big player on that. So right from the get go, when they’re two and a half and they start at school, so there’s preschool as part of the school system. It’s called Ecole Maternal. And they get the three course lunch at a 2.5 hour. So what are they doing?

Natalie MacLean 00:17:21 Apple juice tasting. What is going on.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:23 Their two and a half year olds.

Caro Feely 00:17:25 They get, you know, starter main dessert and they’ll get proper food like something like an endive salad. So quite a bit of thing as a starter. They might get cordon bleu chicken or something for the main and then they might get like a creme brulée for dessert. And so, like Sophia already knew all these names of different kinds of like a Charlotte. What’s a Charlotte? I had no idea, but it’s a kind of dessert. I remember we went and we had some radishes, and I had cut the radishes. I had removed the tops, and we were going to eat the little red radishes. And I was about to throw the tops of the radishes into the compost. And she said to me. No, no, no, no, no, mommy, we can make a salad out of that. And she was like five years old. And I was like, oh. And she said, yes, and we’ll make a vinaigrette for it.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:23 Of course, like most five year olds do. Yes.

Caro Feely 00:18:26 Is that amazing? That is at her school. Then at that time, she’d moved to the next layer, which was like, you know, the start of proper school. But there they had the three course lunch. But then they also had a very good initiative where two of the kids would go and help in the kitchen every day with the preparation of the lunch.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:45 That’s fantastic.

Caro Feely 00:18:46 So they would obviously not all the kids, just two of them, because they didn’t want to manage a whole lot of them, but it meant that they opened their eyes to food preparation with a professional chef. I don’t know if that was specific to that little school it possibly was. That was amazing.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:05 It is. And it’s not just about snobbery or whatever, but they say if kids are involved in food prep and decisions, that they become more conscious of healthy eating. So, you know, it’s instead of the just fuel up and go mindlessness of, you know, consumption, that just sounds marvelous.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:22 Really?

Caro Feely 00:19:23 Yeah. Yeah. Really amazing. Amazing.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:26 Now, you also talk about the corridor of crisis in your home. What was that? What was the toilet brush in the corridor of crisis?

Caro Feely 00:19:36 Exactly.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:38 What else was there?

Caro Feely 00:19:44 The corridor of Crisis was something my dad quipped, because my folks actually live on Vancouver Island. They live in Kuala and Beach, and they were horrified at our decision to leave our kind of successful corporate careers and go into rural France in a very risky venture. Buying something in liquidation was, you know, a signal that was not going to be easy. So my dad was not for it at all. And they weren’t used to having young kids around. You know yourself when you’ve got young kids, you cannot have a pristine house. You can’t. It’s just impossible. So it was a mess. There was kids toys, and Sean’s a very tidy person, so he was probably trying to keep it tidy. but I’m a bit more of an artist I guess. I leave a bit of a trail behind me and then if I tidy up I can’t find anything.

Caro Feely 00:20:43 So. But anyway, so my dad called it the Corridor of Crisis, and it became kind of a bit of a humorous thing that that we were living in the corridor of crisis.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:55 Well, how old are your daughters today? Now?

Caro Feely 00:20:57 So 20 and 22.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:00 Oh.

Caro Feely 00:21:01 Okay. So Sophia is studying law. She is doing Irish law. French law. So she’s doing like a double law degree. And so kind of international EU law. And Ellie is doing business also kind of international. They’re both studying in Paris. Yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:20 Wonderful. Oh my goodness. So the corridor is quieter now, but, I’m sure they return occasionally.

Caro Feely 00:21:28 Oh. So funny.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:30 Now what happened? I’m not even sure how to pronounce this, but it could be an offshoot of the Corridor of Crisis. But what was happening with the Brewer toilet episodes?

Caro Feely 00:21:41 Oh, that is that has been one that’s come back and revisit us like the bad ghost, the bad ghost that’s come.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:50 Back to bite you on the butt.

Caro Feely 00:21:52 Exactly. So to speak, in France, in these very old houses. You know, our house is ancient. We’ve got a well that dates back to Gallo-Roman times. The wall in the underground cellar. The back wall dates to the time of the monastery. And so from around they live in century. And the kind of main part of the double story section where said Brewer resides is an old fortress house that has walls that are 70cm thick, that obviously never had plumbing.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:26 Oh, and what is a brewer?

Caro Feely 00:22:28 A brewer is a grinder. Okay. So essentially the brewer is put in place in any toilet facilities that are upstairs, and you don’t have a normal sewage exit pipe in these old houses, and the walls are too thick and they’re solid stone, so you can’t really put one in. And so this is the solution. So this is a very French thing. So a lot of old houses have these. But of course you can imagine that they can lead to great great trauma and not very smelly situations.

Caro Feely 00:23:04 And the funniest one was actually really recently Sofia had a bunch of friends over in the summer, Sean went off to Paris to her apartment, leaving me to handle, you know, 820 year olds partying this summer party. They were wonderful. Really, really fabulous. But one of her friends needed to plug in his phone so he didn’t realize the sewer system. And he unplugged the sewer and he plugged his phone into where the broiler was. Only thing is, as soon as you do that. Anything in that toilet is not going anywhere. So the next person to flash, it’s all going to be coming right back out at you and, you know, all nasty. Yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:47 Okay.

Caro Feely 00:23:48 Gotcha. So you can imagine how you got wrecked.

Caro Feely 00:23:52 Oh my God, my gosh. So wrecked.

Caro Feely 00:23:57 Anyway, we solved it. I was worried it was broken, but it was just a minor.

Caro Feely 00:24:01 Minor.

Caro Feely 00:24:02 Thing. A little plug incident.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:04 Absolutely. Oh my goodness. So let’s see. At what point did you feel the business was becoming financially viable that you could make a go of this, the winemaking?

Caro Feely 00:24:15 I would say, you know, and just while I think of it, I’ll give a little sense of the four books in the series and the threads that go through them.

Caro Feely 00:24:24 So the first one, the Great Expectations, the is, you know, buying the farm, starting the organic certification and realizing, oh my God, what have we done? This is a very, very tough business. How are we going to turn this around? How are we going to make this into a viable, sustainable entity? And book two is very much about that. How to make it into something that would be long term sustainable. And I guess like I was saying earlier, it’s also about being kind of nimble and changing with circumstances like like even, you know, Covid, none of us foresaw that coming. And overnight, all our own tourism was kind of dead and but luckily within and this is also partly thanks to my experience in my previous life, we were able to turn it all into virtual and we did a huge amount of virtual business. So lots and lots of team building and things like that around wine that were very, very successful for us. That actually ended up being a very successful time in the business.

Caro Feely 00:25:40 But just to give you the sense of the story. So great expectations. First one converting to organic. Saving our skins, then going a little bit into Biodynamics. And that one is also. And I said ask me about saving our skins because saving our skins. The name is also part of the story in that we were at that point of how are we going to turn this around? How are we actually going to make this? Because we were kind of on the cliff every month, like, are we going to make it? Are we going to make it? And part of what saved our skins was, yes, the wine tourism. And yes, being organic for sure helps. But also we started to sell our waste grape skins to a business in the US that turned those waste grape skins into an antioxidant food supplement that people could take as a pill to stay young. So this thing called reservoirs was created by a very dynamic entrepreneur, Naomi Whittle. They bought our skins for about ten years.

Caro Feely 00:26:53 That’s quite a key feature in book two, because she was a real dynamo, and she helped us to turn the story around. So it wasn’t the only thing by any means. There were many, many other parts of expanding. I guess our way of going to market. So we can’t just sell to, say, a supermarket that’s never going to work for the scale that we are. We need to sell direct. How are we going to do that? So that’s all came up in the book two. And then book three was a bit more international wine making. I guess the next phase in the family story as well. Girls growing up. Dealing with menopause. So I called it Vineyard Confessions. Tales of menopause. Love and natural wine. Because those are kind of part of the story in that third one. But the last one, number four, is really about how we’re dealing with climate change and how biodiversity helps us to do that. And things like trees in the vineyard. It’s quite the most, I guess, exciting part of what we’re doing now.

Caro Feely 00:28:02 So as a vineyard business, as a wine business, that is super, super important as biodiversity is absolutely key. I could talk about that subject for a lot. A lot of time.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:14 Yeah, it does sound like we need to have a second conversation, but tell us some of the most interesting experiences or surprising or again, weird or whatever that you’ve had with Biodynamics. Like, we know it’s like organic plus, plus, plus. And it’s really paying close attention to the vineyard and various preparations and bulls horns and all the rest of it. But maybe tell us an example or two that stood out for you with the Biodynamics.

Caro Feely 00:28:41 Yeah. So it’s a cow horn rather than a bull’s horn. Oh, right. Right. You’ve got to be a cow horn because it’s about the fertility. It needs to be a cow that’s had at least four calves. So you can count the rings on the horn to see if it’s had, you know. And it’s about the fertility aspect.

Caro Feely 00:28:59 Does it get a ring?

Natalie MacLean 00:29:00 Each baby, does that create a ring on the horn?

Caro Feely 00:29:03 Exactly.

Caro Feely 00:29:03 Because of them lactating, it’s taking away from the calcium that they use to create the horn. So it makes a different look to the horn than if a cow wasn’t actually having babies.

Caro Feely 00:29:16 Yeah, interesting.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:18 I think I have those rings, but anyway, I don’t have horns yet.

Caro Feely 00:29:22 But anyway.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:24 Anyway.

Caro Feely 00:29:26 But I think so often Biodynamics is just picked on as a woo woo. Isn’t this? You know. But really, it’s very much about listening to your land and being very present. Just to give an overview for people that might not be familiar with it. Yes. Biodynamics is organic. Plus it’s essentially three things. It’s working with plant and animal based sprays to help our vines, to look after themselves, to be healthy, and things like a stinging nettle spray. That’s a mild antifungal. The 500, which is the cow horn fertility spray that’s cow dung buried in a horn in a particular way to make it super, super charged in fertility. There’s so much I could talk about on this, really.

Caro Feely 00:30:19 But to make it as simple as possible, using plant and animal based sprays to solve our problems, to keep the vineyard healthy. And using the biodynamic calendar. So that means that we follow a calendar that helps us to do things at the right moment. So it’s very much about listening to what’s going on in the sky. Now we all notice the sun, of course, and we know that it has an impact on us, but all the other bodies in the sky also have an impact. I mean, lunatic comes from the fact that the moon does have an effect on us. And the final thing is to think of your farm as a whole, farm system as a living thing, to see it as a living thing where everything is connected. And this really works into the whole biodynamics thing as well. And the fact that the macro and the soil, the way that what’s growing the different plants and what you’d call weeds. But they aren’t weeds because they’re all beneficial. You know, Clover’s nitrogen fixing the grasses or making aeration in the soil.

Caro Feely 00:31:33 It’s all a connected entity. We can’t just look at the vine on its own like a unit of production. It just isn’t like that. It is a living thing and it is a vibrant living environment. And I saw you mentioned bets on one of the other discussions and wow, you know, bets are just amazing. So yeah, we have lots of bets as well. And they eat the grape worm moth. And that’s what we want because we don’t want grape worm in our vineyard. So and it’s all connected. If you didn’t have the trees and you didn’t have the hedgerows, you wouldn’t have the bats. And it’s. Yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:04 And as a result, tell us about the wild orchids. Are they growing in your backyard?

Caro Feely 00:32:09 Yeah. And actually I have a little picture here of the orchid. So the orchids came back after three years of organic farming. When we bought the farm, it was conventionally farmed. So 2005 and we started organic straight away. And in 2008 the wild orchids came back.

Caro Feely 00:32:35 And that is an indicator that the systemic fungicides had worked their way out of the soil. Essentially, our soil health was coming back. The mycorrhizal, particularly Michael as in fungal Razia root. So it’s it’s an amazing symbiotic relationship between fungi and roots of plants and trees that helps them to extend their network, to get more nutrients, to exchange self-defense mechanisms. There’s all sorts of benefits behind it. And lovely, lovely book to read if anyone’s interested in more about this is Finding the Mother Tree, and it’s by a Canadian professor of environmental forestry. She’s at UBC. She is really was one of the first to do deep research into microbes and how they work. But these guys will not grow if there are no mycorrhiza and mycorrhizae will not be there if you’re using systemic fungicides.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:37 Well, there you go.

Caro Feely 00:33:38 It was amazing as an indicator. And we have so, so many now. It’s just like a miracle. It’s just so they’re so beautiful as well. You know there’s there’s one that looks like like a beautiful little orchid with, with a bee inside.

Caro Feely 00:33:54 It’s called the bee orchid. They’re absolutely magnificent. Yeah.

Caro Feely 00:33:58 Wow.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:59 Wow. My goodness. Okay. So wonderful, wonderful stories and tips. Yes, we definitely have to have a follow up to this, Carol. But, let’s jump to a bit of the lightning round. Quick questions. Maybe you could tell us about your favorite childhood food and how you’d pair it with wine today.

Caro Feely 00:34:17 Do you know, I used to absolutely Adore marmalade on toast. So I would have to go with marmalade on toast and dessert wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:31 Oh, that sounds good. Yes, please.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:33 That would be.

Caro Feely 00:34:35 That’s not something I would regularly have today. But as a kid, that was one of my favorite things. Was a nice buttered toast with a good bit of marmalade. Oh, yeah. And so snack would be an aged snack that has lovely marmalade notes would be amazing. Yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:54 Great pairing. And who would you share a bottle with, living or dead outside the wine industry, and which bottle would you open and what would you ask them?

Caro Feely 00:35:03 Oh, you know what? I am going to go with al Gore.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:07 Oh, okay. The environmental aspect.

Caro Feely 00:35:10 Yes, because I just spent a weekend in Paris with him running this conference and wow, he is such a dynamo, such an interesting character. And he is a farmer, actually.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:26 What does he farm?

Caro Feely 00:35:28 I think in. Gosh. Is he in Nashville? Somewhere near.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:33 Nashville. Is he just running a, like, a multi-purpose farm, like multiple crops, or is he.

Caro Feely 00:35:37 I think it’s his family farm that he inherited.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:40 okay.

Caro Feely 00:35:41 But amazingly so. This was all part of this thing called climate reality. That’s a organization that he founded just after doing The Inconvenient Truth, like in 2006. And he’s created this organization to try to help people to be more aware of climate crisis and what we can do to deal with it. And actually, the French organization of it gave him this. It was his birthday on Monday, and they gave him one of my books as his birthday gift, and he promised to read it while he’s back on his farm.

Caro Feely 00:36:16 And he farms regenerative. So it’ll be interesting to hear from him. What? But what battle? It would have to be a wonderful, regenerative, organic, biodynamic. What can I say? I would have to take a feely bottle. It would have to be a feeling.

Natalie MacLean 00:36:33 That it’s all that criteria. Yes. Of course. And what would you ask him?

Caro Feely 00:36:39 I think I would ask him what he’s found on his farm. It would be interesting to hear his perspective on his farm. I would also be interested in whether he is into wine, because I don’t know if he is. So that would be very, very interesting. I’d love to, hear if he’s feeling frustrated with how things have not moved as quickly as perhaps he would have liked. That said, I think that if it wasn’t for people like him would be even further back than where we are today. So it’s true when you look at the progress and some of the milestones achieved and you hear the stories. It was quite the most empowering.

Caro Feely 00:37:20 Three days, an incredible, incredible experience. And yeah, those are those are some of the questions I’d ask him. Yeah, yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:28 Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. Carol, this has been a delight. Is there anything we haven’t covered that you’d like to mention?

Caro Feely 00:37:35 Well, listen, I think we absolutely have to have another chat on biodiversity and biodynamics when I bring all my tools and I can explain the A to Z of how it all works, there will be a lot of fun.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:48 Oh, definitely.

Caro Feely 00:37:49 I think it’s a misunderstood topic, and I think it’s helpful to hear the facts about it as well.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:55 Sure, especially from someone who’s practicing it. So let’s do that.

Caro Feely 00:37:59 You know, all I can say is it has been so, so much fun to be with you. I’m just blown away with the opportunity to have met you, you know, and to have this chat. It’s been so, so fun.

Natalie MacLean 00:38:12 Thank you. Okay. Thank you. And where can we find you, your wines and your books online?

Caro Feely 00:38:18 So the books are on Amazon.

Caro Feely 00:38:21 You can find them in other places as well. But definitely, you know, for me as the author, it’s best for me if you buy from Amazon. And it’s the easiest probably for people. Definitely. I think in the US, Canada and UK everywhere. Yes. Yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:38:37 Yeah.

Caro Feely 00:38:37 Great expectations actually on a pretty good deal for the book at the moment. So if people are interested should jump in on that. That is one thing you could do. And then you can find me on Philly.com and you can find our winery, Chateau Philly.com. So Chateau Philly.com and on social media, Instagram and Facebook as well. same name Chateau Philly. So feel with the Y. The Philly feeling is an easy way to remember it. The Philly feeling and also French wine adventures, which is where we have some of the more wine education part of what we do. So and wine tours to like Saint Milan and places that aren’t actually part of our farm. But for the farm, if you want to visit here, it can all be done on Chateau Philly.com.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:29 Wonderful!

Caro Feely 00:39:29 Carole and I would be so delighted to welcome you and of course, any of your viewers, of your fans here to Chateau Fili with the greatest of pleasure. The Southwest France is wonderful. If you haven’t visited before, and if you have, you probably know it is wonderful. So we’d love to see you here.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:48 Well, I encourage everyone listening to do just that, Carol, and to start by reading your wonderful books, because you are a writer. I knew when you asked the first question you started describing the rain. I thought, oh, this is a writer. I love her description, so I’m sure they’ll enjoy that experience with you in person or through print. I will say goodbye for now, Carol, and good luck with everything and I look forward to chatting again with you.

Caro Feely 00:40:13 Thank you. Natalie. Thank you. Merci.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:23 Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Kara. Here are my takeaways. Number one, how does biodynamic farming transform a vineyard into a thriving, interconnected ecosystem? As Carol explains, often Biodynamics is just picked on as woo woo, but really, it’s about listening to your land and being present.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:42 Biodynamics is Organics plus. It’s also essentially three things, she says. It’s working with plant and animal based sprays to keep the vineyard healthy. Using the biodynamic calendar to do things at the right moment. It’s about paying attention to what’s going on in the sky. We all notice the sun, but other bodies in the sky have a big impact on us. The word lunatic comes from the fact that the moon has a profound impact. The final thing we need to think about is that the farm as a whole is a living thing, where everything’s connected. You can’t look at the vine on its own. It’s like a unit of production. It is a living thing in a vibrant living environment. Number two, what do wild orchids reveal about the health of a vineyard? Caro says that when they bought the farm in 2005, it was conventionally farmed. They started organic farming, and in 2008 the wild orchids came back. The systemic fungicides had worked their way out of the soil and the soil health came back.

Natalie MacLean 00:41:48 The mycorrhiza, the fungi growing symbiotically with the roots of the vine, helps them extend their network to get more nutrients. However, Micronesia will not be there if you’re using fungicides. And number three, how do France’s preschool lunches help create a nation of gourmets? Carroll loves France’s respect for food and wine and for taking the time to enjoy it. There’s a tradition in the country where everybody, no matter what you do, teacher, plumber, whatever, is somewhat of a gourmet who knows something about food and wine. And she thinks that goes back to schools with their three course lunch, when kids are just two and a half years old and start at preschool. Of course, they’re not being served wine, but you get the point. I think that’s adorable. I can just see it. It’s my love. In the show notes, you’ll find the full transcript of my conversation with Carol, links to her website and books the video versions of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube live, and where you can order my book online now, no matter where you live.

Natalie MacLean 00:42:51 If you missed episode 213, go back and take a listen. I chat about tasting room tips to learn about wine with Jamie Lewis, host of the Consumed podcast. It’s really helpful if you’re planning on visiting wineries this summer or fall. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Caro Feely 00:43:09 Tight.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:11 But there’s such a great education to be had in a tasting room. Taste and ask the person pouring the wine. What’s special about this? Or tell me about this. And the side by side tasting is so illuminating. It’s how things really jump out at you. The differences. It’s so educational.

Jaime Lewis 00:43:29 I think that a deep love of wine really comes from doing side by side tastings.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:35 Yeah. When we go out for dinner, I ask for two sample tastings and use that to choose. But I’m also learning at the same time. You get a little taste of that side by side when you do that. You won’t want to miss next week. When we chat with Charles Jennings and Paul Cure’s award winning writers based in London, England.

Natalie MacLean 00:44:00 They’ve written for The Guardian, The Telegraph, GQ magazine and others. They’ve also co-authored the hilarious book. I bought it, so I’ll drink it. Booker Prize winning novelist Julian Barnes called it the funniest wine book I’ve read in a long time. Not laugh out loud funny, but snorting choke on your cornflakes. Funny. They’ll join us from their homes in England. If you liked this episode or learned one thing from it, please email or tell a friend about the podcast this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in learning more about Bordeaux or starting your own winery. It’s easy to find my podcast. Just tell them to search for Natalie MacLean Wine on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favourite podcast app, or they can listen to the show on my website at Natalie MacLean podcast. Email me if you have a SIP tip question, or if you’d like to win one of five copies of the books we have to give away. I’d also love to hear your thoughts about this episode, or if you’ve read my book or are listening to it.

Natalie MacLean 00:44:59 Email me at Nathalie at Natalie MacLean. In the show notes, you can also find a link to take a free online wine and food pairing class with me called the Fine Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes That can Ruin Your Dinner and How to fix Them Forever. At Natalie MacLean. Com forward slash. And that’s all in the show notes at Natalie MacLean 339. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a Bordeaux with a bouquet of orchids. You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie MacLean. Meet me here next week.

Natalie MacLean 00:45:54 Cheers.

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