How did Argentina help save Europe’s vineyards during the devastating phylloxera crisis?

Natalie MacLean
Aug5th

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Introduction

How did Argentina help save Europe’s vineyards during the devastating phylloxera crisis? Why is wine still treated as an exclusive product despite being more accessible than ever? How can vineyards that endure extreme temperatures still produce elegant, vibrant wines?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with Marisol de la Fuente.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

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Join the live-stream video of this conversation on Wednesday at 7 pm eastern on Instagram Live Video, Facebook Live Video or YouTube Live Video.

I’ll be jumping into the comments as we watch it together so that I can answer your questions in real-time.

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Highlights

  • What made Marisol leave a successful corporate career to become a sommelier?
  • Why did Marisol build her wine content around beginners instead of wine experts?
  • How did identifying a single aroma in a wine tasting convince Marisol she belonged in the wine world?
  • What wine myths does Marisol most want consumers to stop believing?
  • Which modern wine trends are actually thousands of years old?
  • Why is wine still treated as an exclusive product, despite being more accessible than ever?
  • How did Argentina help save Europe’s vineyards during the phylloxera crisis?
  • Why do Argentina’s southernmost vineyards produce such elegant, fresh wines despite their extreme climate?
  • Why does Marisol believe making great white wine is even more difficult than making great red wine?
  • What do the terms Brut, Extra Brut, and Demi-Sec on sparkling wines really mean?
  • Which common sparkling wine misconception might surprise consumers the most?

 

Key Takeaways

  • How did Argentina help save Europe’s vineyards during the devastating phylloxera crisis?
    • N: The phylloxera crisis in the 19th century nearly wiped out every vine in Europe because of a root louse. The continent was saved by the rootstocks that had been sent to the Americas by Jesuit missionaries. So Argentina and Chile therefore became the rescue supply chain for European wine.
    • M: In Latin America, we have the colonization from Spain mainly so, wine in Spain was very important at the moment. So I believe when the phylloxera happened, they needed to track, how we can save the vineyard or how we can sell the production where we can find the correct plants and wherever, and of course, where the Spanish people were at that moment. They found what they needed. But here in Argentina we always say the colonization brought to Argentina the vines, but at the same time, when they had a problem, we sent it back and we saved the wine in Europe, in the Old World. So we are very connected with the Old World. Also, when you think about the wine industry in Argentina, the wines that had been produced here until the decade of the 1990s were very Spanish in style. So there was a huge impact of the culture and the immigration through the history, and the original styles that we used to produce here were very Spanish style.
  • Why is wine still treated as an exclusive product despite being more accessible than ever?
    • N: You describe how in ancient Egypt, wine was placed in the tombs of pharaohs to demonstrate prestige, and how at the time it was a privilege reserved for nobles, priests and leaders. What’s the most direct parallel between the ancient wine culture and modern wine world that you’ve discovered?
    • M: In Argentina, we are still talking about wine in a very aspirational way. So in the past wine was something very valuable and part of the rituals. It was just for higher level people, high society people and now it’s for everybody. But we have some communication and some products that are very aspirational, and everybody wants to have that communication. Sadly for me, in many cases, it’s still in that way. Wine is exclusive.
  • How can vineyards that endure extreme temperatures still produce elegant, vibrant wines?
    • N: You also talk about a producer in Patagonia who experienced 30 frosts in a single month of ripening. He was farming at 43 degrees south latitude with winds and extreme temperature swings. What kind of wine do those conditions produce?
    • M: We have the highest vineyards in the world in the north of the country, and we have the most southern vineyards in the world. The climate conditions in all these places are very different. In the south, the wines are very elegant and very fresh because you have a huge difference between day and night in terms of temperature. But also you have a lot of sunlight, many hours, maybe from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. So that is very positive for the maturity of the fruit. You have a lot of acidity because of the low temperature, but at the same time you have a great grape because of the sun, many hours of sun. So these wines are very elegant, very fresh, but with a lot of fruity notes.

 

About Marisol de la Fuente

Marisol de la Fuente is an international sommelier, graduated from the Argentine School of Sommeliers, a bartender trained at the International Center of Cocktail Arts, and a journalist. She communicates about the world of wine and beverages to bring it closer to consumers.

She is a columnist on Canal de la Ciudad, where she presents a different segment every week in a simple and entertaining manner. On Vinimos, her wine podcast, she answers the most common consumer questions alongside Ariel Torres, journalist at La Nación.

She teaches her course “El vino, sin vueltas” in a live online format and also works as an instructor in the sommelier programs.

Beyond her passion for wine, she has 25 years of experience in marketing, communication, and PR in multinational companies, and she is a Digital Marketing lecturer and consultant for companies in the wine and beverage industry.

 

Resources

 

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Thirsty for more?

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  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on Amazon.ca, Amazon.com and other country-specific Amazon sites; iTunes.ca, iTunes.com and other country-specific iTunes sites; Audible.ca and Audible.com.

 

Transcript

Natalie MacLean 00:00:00 How did Argentina help save Europe’s vineyards during the devastating phylloxera crisis? Why is wine still treated as an exclusive product despite being more accessible than ever? And how can vineyards that endure extreme temperatures still produce elegant, vibrant wines? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in our chat with Marisol de la Fuente. By the end of our conversation, you’ll also discover what made Marisol leave a successful corporate career to become a sommelier. Why she built her wine content for beginners instead of wine experts. How identifying a single aroma during a wine tasting convinced Marisol she belonged in the wine world. The wine myths she most wants consumers to stop believing which modern wine trends are actually thousands of years old. Why Marisol believes making great white wine is more difficult than making great red wine. What the terms brut, extra brut and demi sack on sparkling wines really mean. I didn’t know this one. I was really surprised. And the most common misconception about sparkling wines. Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Oh, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast.

Natalie MacLean 00:01:35 I’m your host, Natalie MacLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started. Welcome to episode 401. So what’s new in the drinks world this week? In fur, feathers and fermentation and ambitious cargo robbery in Rotherham, England, involving a commercial transport trailer packed with 26 pallets of festive mulled wine valued at £110,000, was recently thwarted by a remarkably sharp nose. The thief had outfitted the stolen vehicle with counterfeit registration plates and attempted to flee on foot across a field when pulled over by highway authorities. The escape plan failed completely when a specialised police canine named Rocco tracked down the runner and then proudly guarded the massive stash of holiday spice, ensuring the seasonal drink safely reached consumers. That’s one pup who definitely earned an extra treat for dinner. Meanwhile, in the hospitality world, the book Bar just opened on Markham Street in Toronto, Ontario.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:59 Blending a carefully curated independent bookstore with a full service cocktail and wine lounge to capture the cozy charm of social reading. What a novel idea. August 5th is National Oyster Day. Oysters can switch their sex back and forth over their lives, depending on water temperature and the season. They also taste of the exact waters where they grew, which is part of why they’ve been treated as a luxury tied to celebration in seaside drinking. I think that’s what they call Marois. August 6th is National IPA day, held on the first Thursday of August as a grassroots craft beer celebration. The style got its heavy dose of hops to survive the long sea voyage to India, where the hops worked as a natural preservative. It’s also National Root Beer Float Day, a treat credited to Frank Wisner and his 1893 Black Cow in Colorado. Root beer itself was first sold as a health remedy by an American pharmacist named Charles Hires in the late 1800s, before it found its calling in an ice cream parlor. August 7th is International Beer Day, which started in 2007 as a small gathering in a single Santa Cruz pub.

Natalie MacLean 00:04:18 Its also National Raspberries and Creme de raspberry is really a cluster of tiny fruits called droplets, all fused together. August 8th is National Frozen Custard Day, a dessert that became a sensation at the 1933 Chicago World’s Fair. What sets it apart from plain ice cream is that egg yolks are folded in, which gives it a dense, silky texture. It’s also National Zucchini Day, which shares the calendar with the gloriously named sneak some zucchini onto your neighbor’s porch night. Born from gardeners drowning in late summer squash, pear grilled zucchini with a crisp, white like Vermintide or a herby gin spritz. It’s also international Cat day, where the drink tie in is loose on purpose because cats will never tell you what they’re thinking, and it’s just a cozy ritual rather than CategoryLogic. August 9th is National Rice Pudding Day, one of the oldest comfort desserts on record. Versions show up all over the world as arroz con leche, riz, olé and kheer. August 10th is National S’mores Day, a modern food holiday that stuck because people love a built in excuse for a campfire treat made by sandwiching a melted marshmallow and a piece of chocolate between two graham crackers.

Natalie MacLean 00:05:38 The name, of course, is simply a contraction of summer, as in Alex. S’more, please. August 11th is National Raspberry Tart Day and tarts traced back to the Middle Ages. It’s also National Panini Day, whose name simply means small bread rolls. Back to today’s episode. If you’d like to win one of six drinks books that I have to give away, please email me and let me know you’d like to win. It doesn’t matter where you live, I’ll choose six winners randomly from those who contact me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean. Com. If you’re reading the paperback or e-book or listening to the audiobook of my memoir, Wine Witch on Fire rising from the Ashes of Divorce, defamation, and Drinking Too Much, a national bestseller and one of Amazon’s best books of the year. I’d love to hear from you at Natalie at Natalie MacLean. There’s also a terrific free guide for book clubs. I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers worldwide. Okay, on with the show. Marisol de la Fuente is an international sommelier who graduated from the Argentine School of Sommeliers.

Natalie MacLean 00:06:44 A bartender who trained at the International Center of Cocktail Arts and a journalist. She communicates about the world of wine and beverages to bring it all closer to consumers. She is also a columnist on Canal de la guide. You can correct me. So on this I’m going to butcher these words where she presents a different segment every week in a simple and entertaining manner. On venomous, Her Wine podcast, she answers the most common consumer questions alongside Ariel Torres, a journalist at La Nacion. She also teaches her course El vino sa leta. Thank you. This is going to be a Spanish lesson. Clearly, by the time we finish in a live online format and also works as an instructor in sommelier programs. So beyond her passion for wine, she has spent 25 years in marketing, communication and PR in multinational companies. She is also a digital marketing lecturer and consultant for companies in the wine and beverage industry, and I’m so happy she joins us now from her home in Buenos Aires. Hello, salt. So great to have you here with us.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:07:55 Hi, Natalie. Hi, everybody. It’s a pleasure to be here. And don’t worry for the Spanish, because it is a guy. You don’t need to say it correctly. You just did it perfectly well.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:05 Oh. Thank you. You’re being kind, but thank you. At least wine is the universal language of joy. So at least when it comes to that, we’re speaking on the same language.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:08:15 Exactly.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:17 Okay, so your background salt is unusual for Somalia. You have a journalism degree, a master’s in marketing, and you spent over two decades leading communications at multinational companies like Intel and HP. So what did you decide to leave the corporate world and maybe focus on wine?

Marisol de la Fuente 00:08:34 A couple of years ago, to be exactly in 2015. I did a travel a trip to Mendoza. That is our mission here in Argentina. I’ve been there many times, but at that moment with my husband, we did some wine tastings on the during the trip and I realized I can detect aromas and flavors.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:08:55 I have very interesting conversations with the winemakers. And so when I get back to Buenos Aires, I decided to study to be analysis. But you don’t have that degree in Buenos Aires because we are very far away of the vineyards. So I thought, what else I can do or what else I can study to be in contact with this environment and this industry. And I realized that 20 years ago I did PR for a school, the Argentina sommeliers. And I remember that and I said, okay, maybe I can do some research about sommelier and try to understand what it means. Magically it was it’s a mix between communication and some marketing and also to know about why. So I decided to study. I did the career here in Argentina And at the beginning, I started working like everybody on my days, things first and that kind of events. But I realized that the best I can do is combine communication, marketing wise, industry and that kind of thing. So the story started there.

Natalie MacLean 00:10:01 Yeah, we certainly have brought all your skills together in such an excellent professional way.

Natalie MacLean 00:10:07 Now, you’ve also built an Instagram account at Soul Sommelier from 0 to 120,000 followers. That’s amazing. What was the maybe specific piece of content that first told you you were really resonating with your audience on Instagram?

Marisol de la Fuente 00:10:23 I think that the story started before, when people, my friends and family and people that I know in my shop, they started to ask me about wines and recommendations. So I said, what I can do. Maybe I can speak about wines and beverage in a friendly way to explain these people that don’t know and they don’t all need to know about wines, how to select, how to go to the supermarket. So the first couple of posts and content that I did was about that. How to select wine in the supermarket, how you can choose the best way for a specific meeting or food. So all that content started to be very, very successful. So I realized that a lot of people in the Spanish speaking world was very hungry to understand, to learn, to buy better. So I decided to start the account.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:11:19 Talking about this, I have a clear view of my audience. My audience is people that don’t know about wine at all, and they don’t care. They just need the tips. They just need them the suggestions. So if we are talking about, I don’t know, carbonic maceration in a technical way, nobody is going to understand and nobody cares.

Natalie MacLean 00:11:41 It’s true. So you’re very practical. As you say, they want the tips. They want to know which wines to buy. And you really speak to exactly what they’re looking for. So now you also co-host the podcast with your partner or husband, Ariel Torres. You teach sommelier students, you advise caviar, the Argentine Wine Corporation, on national communication strategy and appear weekly on a TV show. When do you sleep? I don’t think you do sleep. But what do you enjoy most about what you do? What’s the. Is there a specific moment or part of all of that you really love the most?

Marisol de la Fuente 00:12:18 Well, I love the communication part. As you mentioned, I had a column in La Ciudad.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:12:23 It’s a national channel here, also on radio. Now I have my own streaming show on Fridays, so I love to communicate, to think about, okay, we have this, we have this topic. How can we talk about this and make it fun and easy and share. So I love that part. Of course, when I teach, I also love when somebody say, oh, I didn’t know this. I know my mind changed completely, completely. But I love all. But the media is the part of the of my daily job that I love more.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:00 That’s great. Wow. Okay, so in 2014, you went on a wine tour through Mendoza with Ariel and at Bonacci Winery in San Rafael. A sommelier there said that there was one aromatic descriptor, one adjective in a white wine. No one in the room could identify. What did you say and what happened?

Marisol de la Fuente 00:13:23 He’s so funny because this is part of the story. When I decided to study sommelier to be part of the industry, and also is in the first chapter of my book, because I think it was the that moment when you realized, yeah, maybe I am good at this because in that white wine tasting, the Servilia said, as you mentioned, this wine is very complex.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:13:47 You are not going to detect exactly what we have here. I’m going to tell you what it is. You are going to be early, so you’re going to have a total big surprise. And I remember I said, oh, I feel olive oils here and some other components and smells. And she said, okay. Yes, that is you got smell. She was nice. But at that moment I realized, okay, of course, as we need to train all the the smell and flavors and to identify correctly and to use that to describe a wine. But to tell you the truth, in my case, it was like, I can feel and I can separate, okay, this and this and that. And that was the kickoff for me in my decision to to be part of the wine industry.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:34 That’s fairly specific. The smell of olive oil. It’s the. I guess it’s the molecule that creates the smell of olive in certain white wines. And it’s a specific compound, if I understand correctly, that mimics that scent.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:47 But I guess when the sommelier said, you’ll be surprised when I tell you it was actually the sommelier who was surprised.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:14:55 Oh, yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:56 Oh that’s.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:14:56 Right. Sometimes today I at least in my case, when you detect something. Also today I have some doubts. I’m not sure. But at that moment was so innocent because I just smell and say, oh, for me, it’s this. Oh. Anyone else? Please that spirit to be a student all the time, to discover new things and to be surprised for these new things that you discover.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:22 So yes, always learning for sure. So your book, if I understand roughly an English, it means let me tell you about wine. What’s the title in Spanish?

Marisol de la Fuente 00:15:32 The cuento el vino.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:33 Okay.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:15:35 It likes. Let me share with you about wine. well, that would be the spirit. The spirit? You know, like when you tell a story. Something like that.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:45 Yeah, absolutely. And so tell us in a nutshell what this book is about, like how it’s different, say, from other wine books.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:15:51 My book is all about the basics of the wine. When the editorial called me, they asked me to do a book that could be sold in supermarkets, in a book, bookstores. But in that part where you have the text for dummies, the easy explanation for everybody, something that can give you the overall knowledge that you need to know to understand the basics. That was the the main objective, of course. The final result was so amazing. So I was in the book fair here and it was sold out. And the book was present in many other environments and places and also in wineries. Because the book is nice, it’s nice with the pictures and the color and the graphics, etc. but also it’s a small book that you can read and understand all that you need to understand about history of wine production of wine. And I have a huge chapter about myths because it’s something that always I use in all my communication as well as I am trying to rehab MythBusters. So I have a chapter about all the myths that I have.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:17:02 We have been hearing about wine in the last ten years, so I put all of that also in the book. So if you see.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:10 Pairings with wine, meat and wine.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:17:13 Yes. But also we have a lot of myths about, I don’t know if the bottle is heavy, the wine is better in the corner. The misconceptions or misconception that, well, I know it’s okay, it’s okay. We send me tomatoes in Spanish, but yes, misconception because it’s something that people repeat and spread. And everybody believe that. Nobody knows why. So a good example is this one. A heavy bottle has a weather vane inside.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:45 They think it’s more expensive.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:17:46 Because it’s more heavy on that kind of thing. So white wine gives you headache. The headache is because you drink too much and you don’t drink water, and.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:58 You.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:17:58 Know, that kind of thing.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:01 Yes, because they think it’s sulfites or whatever, white wine. But there’s it’s such a small percentage of the population that even reacts to sulfites.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:08 And I’ve heard it said that a glass of wine has fewer sulfites than an entire jug or whatever carton of orange juice. There’s far more sulfites in other things we eat and.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:18:20 Drink.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:21 Than wine.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:18:21 Yeah, because it’s part of the fermentation and natural component when you have some kind of fermentation. When you read my book is all the basics you need to know. You know. Yes. So.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:32 Yes. Absolutely. No. It’s great. And is there plans to have it translated into English?

Marisol de la Fuente 00:18:38 I have some conversations with the with Penguin Random House. They I know they are working on the book on Portuguese for the Brazilian market and maybe later for in English. But at this moment they after a couple of years of the publication, they are working in the translation to Portuguese to. Oh that’s great.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:59 Another great market.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:19:00 Very close.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:00 So good. Good. Okay, so you write that wine is older than the wheel, it’s older than writing. And its origins predate documented history by thousands of years.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:10 And you mentioned the fermented grape evidence comes from 6000 BCE from what is now Iraq and Iran. What was the single most surprising archaeological fact about ancient wine that you came across in your research?

Marisol de la Fuente 00:19:25 Something that is very interesting is when you when we talk about orange wines, for example, that now are very trendy and very old from Asia. When you realize that some things and now are very cool, like natural wines or these new trends that we saw, we see on the wine industry and most of the things already happened, happened in the past. So naturally as part of the process. So it’s very interesting to do that.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:53 Connections between what’s old is new and it comes around. Everybody thinks it’s the hot new trend, but it’s a thousand year old trend.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:20:01 Exactly, exactly. That is very interesting.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:05 And you describe how in ancient Egypt, wine was placed in the tombs of pharaohs to demonstrate prestige, and how at the time it was a privilege reserved for nobles, priests and leaders. What’s the most direct parallel between the ancient wine culture and modern wine world that you’ve discovered?

Marisol de la Fuente 00:20:24 I want to talk about Argentina because it’s the place that I know more, the country that I know more.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:20:29 I know about Latin America and some places in Europe as well, but in general and in particular in Argentina. We are still talking about wine, not me, but the industry and maybe other communicators or sommeliers. We are talking about wine in a very aspirational way. So okay, maybe if I have to do a connection is in a ship. They have wine. They have wine was like something very valuable and part of the processes and the all the I. But how do you say it in English? All the customs and the.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:09 Everyday drinking rituals, like the fancy thing.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:21:12 As part of free course wines. In the past, when we try to understand the story, were part of rituals. Okay, nowadays sometimes, and I want to say that I don’t feel that is 100% positive, but wine is still part of three walls, and this proposes that I see on a lease here in Argentina. About wine is only for some people. And there’s this wine that there are only 1000 bottles and it’s very expensive.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:21:40 When you you see the history, when you try to understand. The history of wine was always part of rituals at the beginning religion. And then just for higher level people, high society people, and now it’s for everybody. But we still have some communication and some products that that are very aspirational and everybody want to have the communication. Sadly for me, in many cases it’s still in that way. Wine is exclusivity. Maybe that is some kind I can do.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:14 Yeah, it absolutely is. Now, you also note I have so many interesting facts in your book, but that phylloxera, the phylloxera crisis in the 19th century that nearly wiped out every vine in Europe because of a root loss louse, a bug that used to like to eat the roots. The continent was saved by the rootstocks that had been sent to the Americas by Jesuit missionaries. So Argentina and Chile therefore became, in a very real sense, the rescue supply chain for European line, which is amazing. And then in turn, stock that was taken over from Europe and planted in the two countries.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:48 The phylloxera didn’t have an easy go of it. Why was that?

Marisol de la Fuente 00:22:53 Why is a very good question. What I describe is a story, the history. I think that in Latin America we have had the colonization from Spain mainly. Wine in Spain was very important. Another moment. It’s very important at this time. I imagine they bring with them the wines and the plants and everything. So I believe when the phylloxera happened, they need to, they need to track how we can Save the veneer of how we can sell the production, where we can find the correct plants and wherever. And of course, where the Spanish people was at that moment. They find they found what they need. But I don’t have a wiki or an answer for the why. I know that this part story, when we describe that here in Argentina, we always say the colonization bring to Argentina the vines, but at the same time, when they have a problem, we send it back and we save the wine in Europe, in the old world.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:23:55 And so we are very connected with the old world. Also, when you think about the wine industry in Argentina. The wine that had been producing here until the decade of 90. The wines here were like the Spanish wines. So it’s a huge impact of the culture and the immigration, the different history and the Original styles that we used to produce here were very Spanish style.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:25 Okay. That’s interesting. Now, you also talk about a producer in Patagonia who experienced 30 frosts in a single month of ripening. And we have to keep in mind, like for us in the Northern hemisphere, that the farther you go south in the Southern Hemisphere, the colder it gets and your harvests are reversed from ours. More like March April. So he was farming at 4043 degrees south latitude with winds, extreme temperature swings -four degrees Celsius. Sometimes. What kind of wine does those conditions produce? And does it. Yeah. Does it do you have to be crazy to to farm in those conditions?

Marisol de la Fuente 00:25:06 Well, first I have to say that we have the highest vineyards on the world, 3000m over the level of the sea in the north of the country.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:17 The mountainous plantings. Yes.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:25:18 Yeah, exactly. In Salta, state of Salta, province of Salta. And we have the more Australia than the the vineyards in the south, as you mentioned, are the southeast vineyards on the war and the climate conditions in all these places? We have 24 states in Argentina and we produce wine in, in 18. So you have all the climates, all the altitudes. You have everything in the south in this example that you mentioned before, that happened in the chewed province up to an astute state. And the wine there is a very elegant and very fresh y, because you have a huge difference between day and night in terms of, in terms of temperature. But yeah, but also you have a lot of sunlight, many hours, maybe from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m., so that is very positive for the the process, especially when you need to for the maturity of the fruit.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:29 Because the grape skins really develop those complex flavors they call the phenolics.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:26:33 Yeah, exactly.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:26:34 So you have a lot of acidity because the low temperature. But at the same time you have a great a great grape because this the some many hours of sun also with high acidity. So these wines are very elegant, very fresh, but with a lot of fruity notes.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:57 Right.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:26:57 But it’s true in the Patagonia here in Argentina, we have different provinces that are producers. In the South we have water that is different in the Cusco region, close to one, this to mocha, the mountains. Why? Because there is desert or semi-desert. So in the south we have water. So because we have water, we can use the water to avoid the freezing, the low temperatures and the damage to the grapes. So it’s a very good condition. Yeah. Yeah. It’s difficult because it’s far away of everything you have. Logistics cost, the production are small in general, and that wines in Patagonia in general are expensive wines. And you are going to find those wines in restaurants, in very good restaurants, Michelin restaurants in Buenos Aires and all over the world, in Latin America, because they produce small quantity but very high quality.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:51 And have to ship a long way. So you also mentioned there are more than 10,000 grape varieties that exist, I think, in Argentina or in the world that.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:28:01 You want in the.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:01 World, in the world. Okay. I was going to say that’s a lot for one country. Oh no, not anymore. But you point out that only about 33 grapes account for half of all wine production globally. Now you describe Toronto’s the grape. Toronto’s as the most beautiful indigenous native grape of Argentina. I am a huge fan of this wine. But tell us what a Toronto’s wine tastes like is. It’s always white wine. Is it not exciting? Okay.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:28:32 So it’s great white wine. Here in Argentina we have many different grape varieties. We have more than 150 different grape varieties that we produce. But the two that are the relevant or the flagship grapes here are, in the case of Red Malbec, that is not very common all over the world. 75% of the production is here. Even with this is a French grape from Cahors.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:28:59 But here we produce the 75% of all the production or wine and the white wine. The white grape is a Tarentaise. That is local grape is the only one. That is. We call the local grapes. It is like native. But this is it’s an interesting native because it’s a good mix and a good grape to produce wines. And Toronto has these characteristics is like you have fruits, like you have flowers, you have fresh vegetables. And on the nose is like like you feel that the wine is going to be sweet, but it’s not because in general it’s dry. Of course, we have also sweet taste. But what I mean is, is an explosion in your nose. You have. Yes.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:47 All this is so aromatic. Yes, it’s.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:29:49 Chromatic, but for the international taste, maybe it’s too much aromatic. Yeah. So this is the reason why I can say that I. Around 80% of the production of Tarentaise is for internal market, because we export Sauvignon blanc and Chardonnay like many other wine countries, but torrents is more difficult to export because for many people or many consumers around the world is very intense.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:30:20 For me, it’s amazing. It’s beautiful to drink alone, to drink on cocktails because, as you said, it’s very aromatic. You have franchise mean to beach and I don’t know many different fruits and flowers and vegetables in just wine. One wine that is not very common.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:42 Absolutely gorgeous. Yeah, I compare it to Viognier or Cabot’s demeanor. It’s the really floral. Even though it’s its own thing, I think of them together sometimes. Yeah. Now, you write that making a good white wine is harder than making a good red, because whites are fermented without the skins and therefore more fragile and prone to oxidation. But most people think red wine is more serious and a more technical achievement. So what is the single step, do you think, in white wine production that people don’t think about but really determines the outcome, the quality of the wine.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:31:17 When they report or write to the winery, and you need to control temperature and extraction and to try to avoid oxidation. I think that is the more the most critical part of the process.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:31:31 If you try to explain to a consumer that it is possible that the consumer is not going to understand much what you are talking about. But what I always say when I talk with consumers about white wines, first, I want to say this in Argentina it’s very common to hear wine is red wine, whites are for cars are for gas. Okay, that is a very common phrase. So when I talk with someone that is sharing with me that thought, that thought, I always tried to demonstrate that it’s not it’s always happened on wine tasting. So instead I had a very good white wine with me in my tastings to demonstrate that a white wine can be amazing, or with more time on the bottle. It’s not important, but I try to demonstrate why the combination, the flavors, the aromas in many cases are maybe better than a red wine or regular red wine. But technically we all know that the oxidation part and what the grapes are right to the wine area. That part of the technical part is the most important one.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:41 It’s most important. Yeah.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:32:42 Then you can do salty or not, or do a fresh one or use oak or not.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:48 But and that is a good myth that you point out how people don’t think of white wines. But when we think of Bordeaux, there’s the five top wines of Bordeaux, and above them all is a white wine chateau. Now it’s a dessert wine, but it is a white wine, so it’s considered one of the best wines in the world. Now, one of the myths that I thought that was really fascinating that you I’ve never read this in another book. You explain that Brut or Brew Brut on sparkling wine, extra brut and demi sack on sparkling wine labels refers to the amount of sugar in grams per litre added at the very end of the production in the expedition liquor or the dosage. It’s not referring. Those terms don’t refer to the general dryness of the base wine. People assume it’s describing the overall character of the wine or the sweetness. So why do you think the wine industry has not bothered to communicate this more clearly? Because I’ve never heard it pointed out like you have.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:49 Well, it’s.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:33:50 Great. It’s a very good question because here something else happened. If you think about Brut Extra Brut, people here believes that Extra Brut is better than Brut because it’s extra.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:04 Extra So.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:34:06 They believed that description of the label, as you said, is about quality. I don’t know why the wine production or the sparkling wine producers are not changing that, but I all the time when I talk about sparkling wines and try to share that, and it’s incredible because each time I talk about that, people, people answer me, I didn’t know. I believe that it was about the quality of the wine. Extra Brut is better than the other, and it’s something that is funny. But this is about maybe Spanish because sake or the me sake that are the sweet ones. Sake Seco in Spanish is right.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:49 Yeah. So it’s.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:34:51 Dry. It’s dry.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:52 Oh, dry the dry. I’m sorry. Yes.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:34:54 The name of the name meaning? Meaning the opposite in Spanish.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:58 So that’s got to be really confusing.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:01 Oh, my God.

Marisol de la Fuente 00:35:01 They me sake. And it’s sweet. And in in Spanish. Sick is fried. He’s sick. Oh, okay. Okay. So it’s very, very confusing. This is the reason why many producers here started to put on the label Sweet Dulce.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:17 Okay. Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Marisol. Here are my takeaways. Number one, how did Argentina help save Europe’s vineyards during the devastating phylloxera crisis? So the phylloxera crisis in the 19th century nearly wiped out every vine in Europe because of a root louse, a lousy louse. The continent was saved by rootstocks that had been sent to the Americas by Jesuit missionaries. So Argentina and Chile therefore became the rescue supply chain for European wine. As Marisol explains in Latin America they have the colonization from Spain mainly. So wine from Spain was very important at that time. And when phylloxera happened, they needed to save their vineyards, but they also needed the right rootstock and plant material. They found what they needed in Argentina.

Natalie MacLean 00:36:13 As she says, we always say colonization brought Argentina the vines. But at the same time, when they were a problem in Europe, we sent them back and saved Europe’s wines. So we’re very connected, she says, with the old world. Number two, why is wine still treated as an exclusive product despite being more accessible than ever? Marisol described how an ancient Egypt wine was placed in the tombs of pharaohs to demonstrate prestige, and how at the time it was a privilege reserved for nobles, priests and leaders. So we talked about the most direct parallel between that ancient wine culture and the modern wine world. As Marisol says in Argentina, we’re still talking about wine in a very aspirational way. In the past, wine was something very valuable, and part of these rituals it was just for higher level people, high society, and now it’s for everyone. But we have some communication work to do to dispel that. Wine is purely exclusive. And number three, how can vineyards that endure extreme temperatures still produce elegant, vibrant wines? Maricel talks about a producer in Patagonia who experienced 30 frosts in a single month of ripening.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:24 He was farming at 43 degrees south latitude with winds and extreme temperature swings. Marisol says Argentina has the highest vineyards in the world, as well as the most southern vineyards. The climate conditions in these places are very different. In the south, the wines are elegant and fresh because you have a huge difference between day and night temperatures, but you also have a lot of sunlight from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m., so that’s very good for the maturity of the fruit. Developing these complex flavors. You also have a lot of acidity because of low temperatures. If you missed episode 343, go back and take a listen. I chat about what is vital about Argentina’s old Vine Malbec, as well as Ontario’s wine future with an Sperling and Peter Gamble. They are winemakers, superstar winemakers in both regions, and I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Multiple Speakers 00:38:19 In that 1905 to 1925 period, there was the greatest genetic diversity amongst the Malbec plantings because they were still learning about it. There were subsequently a couple of periods where authorities felt that we needed to modernize and change to Syrah and Cabernet Sauvignon, so Malbec got pulled out.

Multiple Speakers 00:38:43 Our vineyard reflects that time when genetic diversity was appreciated. The other thing is, in that 1920s period up until the Great Depression, 1929, 1930 and onwards, Argentina was a wealthy country. People not only had the culture of enjoy and great food and wine, but they had the money to promote that and to live a rich life. And they wanted their homegrown wines to reflect that. That’s the era in which the vineyard was planted in order to make great wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:23 You won’t want to miss next week when we continue our chat with Marisol. Do you know someone who would be interested in learning more about the wines of Argentina? Please let them know about this podcast. Email or text them now while you’re thinking about it. It’s really easy to find the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. Just tell them to search for that title or my name Natalie MacLean wine on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favorite podcast app or they can listen to the show on my website at Natalie MacLean. In the show notes, you’ll find a link to take a free online food and wine pairing class with me, called the five Food and Wine Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever at Natalie MacLean.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:02 Com forward slash class. And that’s all in the show notes at Natalie MacLean 401. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope some of the great is in your glass this week. Perhaps an Argentine Malbec with some salsa? You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie MacLean. Com forward slash meet me here next week. Cheers.

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