What do Famille Perrin, Torres and Gaja Wines Have in Common that Makes Them Uncommon? Fiona Morrison Goes Behind the Scenes of These Family Businesses

Natalie MacLean
Mar5th

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Introduction

What is unique about Famille Perrin in France’s approach to running their family wine business? How do traditional wine families differentiate their brands and market their wines in a crowded marketplace? How has the Gaja family of Italy made significant contributions to winemaking and the Piemonte community? What is unique about Famille Perrin in France’s approach to running their family wine business?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with Fiona Morrison

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, 10 Great Wine Families: A Tour Through Europe.

 

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Highlights

  • How did the Frescobaldi family make a massive impact on the arts in their transition from banking to wine?
  • What were the Frescobaldi family’s connections to famous figures like Dante Alighieri and Galileo?
  • How has Angelo Gaja and the Gaja family made significant contributions to winemaking and the Piemonte community?
  • Why is the Liger-Belair family’s vineyard often known as the greatest in the world?
  • What is unique about the Famille Perrin’s approach to running their family wine business?
  • How has Álvaro Palacios proven Garnacha’s place as the climate change grape?
  • How do traditional wine families differentiate their brands and market their wines in a crowded marketplace?
  • Do these families view their wines as luxury goods?
  • What was the most memorable tasting in Fiona’s wine career so far?
  • How would Fiona pair her favourite childhood seafood dishes with wine?
  • Why would Fiona want to share a bottle of wine with Shakespeare?

 

Key Takeaways

  • How do traditional wine families differentiate their brands and market their wines in a crowded marketplace?
    • Simplicity and being true to their roots are two key factors Fiona points out. The labels have become much cleaner and are much more sober these days than they were in the past. The Torres family of Spain have done huge amounts on climate change and carbon neutrality and regeneration. In fact, they are, once again, this year, the most admired wine brand. I think it’s very important to show that you’re paying your dues and you’re doing research. But what I loved about Torres is they’ve gone into the mountains, into the villages, and resurrected old, native, grape varieties. No one ever knew what they were, they were forgotten varieties. And they’ve created a group of wines called the ancestral wines. It took years to isolate these varieties, to make sure that they were virus-free, which it’s very difficult to do, and to be able to propagate these varieties so that you could replant them and give a heritage to grapes that are being forgotten. It shows how much they are rooted in their heritage and their history.
  • How has the Gaja family of Italy made significant contributions to winemaking and the Piemonte community?
    • As Fiona observes, they don’t make much wine or have a huge cellar. They also don’t have hostesses, like most of these vineyards that show people around and then give you a tasting. If you want to go and taste a Gaja, you need to make a contribution of 300 euros to their various charities they support. Piemonte is still quite a poor region, and so they want to give back to the community and to the area what they can. Of course, people who drink Gaya wines, which are very expensive, can afford to give a charity donation. It’s quite unusual, but I think it’s a good solution for them.
  • What is unique about Famille Perrin in France’s approach to running their family wine business?
    • Everyone knows Perrin because of Beaucastel in France. It’s a really famous estate building a new winery now, which is so far ahead of its time. It’s Adobe style so it’s using thermal energy with earth and straw to insulate so it’s carbon neutral, and it’s going to be a blueprint for wineries in the future. There are seven or eight children from the two brothers, Francois and Jean Pierre. Every single one of them has a job in the winery. It’s rather like going into a Goldilocks house, because they all share one office. There are seven desks all around with each handling a different aspect of the business. Can you imagine the force of will to work together like this? But it’s also the way that the family sticks together. This solidarity between so many children, working together, laughing together, tasting together. I just think that it’s amazing. This is a blueprint for how to run a family business.

 

Start The Conversation: Click Below to Share These Wine Tips

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In the search for excellence and quality, Angelo Gaja is very much a pioneer. - Fiona Morrison Fiona Morrison Click to tweet

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The Famille Perrin are very anchored in their own, but they have also found ways to make life better for their growers as well, and at the same time, keeping this great family solidarity going through the next generation. - Fiona Morrison Fiona Morrison Click to tweet

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Garnacha is really the climate change grape. - Fiona Morrison Fiona Morrison Click to tweet

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For everyone out there who loves wine: find out about the stories and tell the stories. - Fiona Morrison Fiona Morrison Click to tweet

 

About Fiona Morrison MW

Fiona Morrison is an international Master of Wine, author, writer and wine merchant who lives in Belgium and Bordeaux and holds both British and Belgian nationalities. Trained in the UK, France and the USA, her career has covered many facets of the wine trade in Europe and the USA. She began working for Paterno Imports in Chicago before joining Seagram Chateau & Estates in New York under the legendary Abdallah Simon. In 1992, she returned to Europe to become international spokesperson for C.I.V.B. (Bureau des Vins de Bordeaux).

She became a Master of Wine in 1994 after studying in America and France. Fiona has served on the boards of the Masters of Wine and the Masters of Wine Endowment Fund, and has organized several international M.W. symposia. She has been a consultant and board member of several international companies in the UK and Belgium.

She is married to Jacques Thienpont of Le Pin and currently runs the Thienpont family wine merchant business in Belgium and France. The family owns three estates on Bordeaux’s right bank: Le Pin (Pomerol), L’IF (St Emilion) and L’Hêtre (Castillon). Winner of several awards for her writing, including the James Beard Award, her latest book, “10 Great Wine Families”, has been published internationally. She was awarded the title of Officier de l’Ordre de Léopold, the most important military and civil order in the Kingdom of Belgium, in 2019 for her services to the Belgian wine world.

 

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Transcript

Natalie MacLean 00:00:00 How do traditional wine families differentiate their brands and market their wines in a crowded marketplace? How has the Gaja family of Italy made significant contributions to wine making and to the Piedmont community, and what is unique about them? Famille Perrin in France, especially their approach to running their family wine business. In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in Part Two of our chat with Fiona Morrison. You don’t need to have listened to Part One from last week first, but if you missed that episode, go back and take a listen after you finish this one. By the end of our conversation, you’ll also discover how the Frescobaldi family made a massive impact on the arts in their transition from banking to wine. The Frescobaldi family connections to famous figures like Dante Alighieri and Galileo. Why the Liger-Belair family’s vineyard is often known as the greatest one in the world. How Alvaro Palacios of Spain has proven Garnacha place as the climate change grape. Whether these families view their wines as luxury goods or not. Why it’s important to explore the stories behind the wines you love. How Fiona would pair her favorite childhood seafood dishes with wine. And why Fiona would want to share a bottle of wine with Shakespeare. To drink or not to drink with him, that is the question, I’d say yes.

Natalie MacLean 00:01:42 Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean. And each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:23 Welcome to episode 327. As I promised last week, I’ll share a fun segment we did recently on Breakfast Television, pairing wine with every stage of a relationship from first date jitters to getting ghosted to getting engaged. Yay to celebrating an anniversary! So have you ever wondered which wines pair best with the roller coaster of romance? From first dates to final goodbyes, we’re exploring the wines that match every stage of your love life.

TV host 00:02:53 Joining us today is Natalie MacLean, who offers Canada’s most popular online wine classes and wine reviews at nataliemaclean.com.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:23 Great to be back with you, Melanie. My motto for Valentine’s Day is candy is dandy and liquor is quicker, but wine is divine. Let’s start with first dates.

TV host 00:03:15 Which one would you recommend for those nerve-wracking initial encounters?

Well, the dynamic duo of Romeo and Juliet Prosecco. Yes, those are real wine names. They are the perfect icebreakers for those butterfly moments. The Romeo Prosecco dances on your tongue with green apple and white peach notes, while his partner, the Juliet Rosé, flirts with wild strawberry and rose petal aromas. I paired these sparkling wines with citrus-kissed, pan-seared scallops drizzled with Champagne butter sauce, garnished with fresh microgreens and edible flowers that mirror the wine’s delicate effervescence.

TV host 00:03:54 And what if things don’t go as planned? I hear you have something in mind for those ghosting scenarios.

Natalie MacLean 00:04:11 Indeed I do. When you’ve been ghosted, swipe right on these terrific, alcohol-free Noughty wines (and that’s spelled N-O-U-G-H-T-Y) that will let you keep your dignity and a clear head. They’re crafted from organic grapes and offer all of the pleasure without any of the regret – unlike that idiot who never texted you back. I paired the sparkling wine with a healing bowl of lemon-brightened quinoa topped with honey-roasted butternut squash, pomegranate seeds, and toasted pumpkin seeds – comfort food that’s still kind to your waistline. And by the way, you can get the Noughty wines shipped directly to your doorstep from the website SoftCrushed.

TV host 00:04:47 Moving on to happier times. What should we pop open when we pop the question?

Natalie MacLean 00:04:55 Getting engaged calls for a joyous wine and rose-coloured glasses. I mean, how else would you get married these days, given the statistics? But not so glum, chum, when you taste the delightful Lola Rosé from Pelee Island, Ontario. It tastes like summer strawberries and the excitement of saying yes, yes, yes. Okay. One. Yes, it’s probably good enough for an engagement. It’s proudly Canadian and available in the LCBO and other liquor stores across the country. I pair it with delicate smoked salmon canapés topped with dill-infused crème fraîche and pink peppercorns, served on crisp cucumber rounds. Light yet luxurious.

TV host 00:05:38 And for anniversaries, which wine would you recommend?

Natalie MacLean 00:05:40 I have two spectacular Cabernet Sauvignons that are also both proudly Canadian. The first is the Trius Cabernet Sauvignon from Niagara, Ontario, which is like a perfect marriage – complex, well-structured, built to last. It unfolds with layers of black cherry, dark chocolate and cedar. The Best in Show Cabernet Sauvignon from Pelee Island has garnered 95 points from top critics and is equally robust and long-lived on the palate and the senses. I’d pair them both with herb-crusted rack of lamb served with a mint-infused quinoa puff and grilled asparagus tips. Elegant yet satisfying. All right. And as I’ve said, here’s my favourite toast: May your glass and your heart always be full.

Natalie MacLean 00:06:26 Next up, I will be doing segments about Saint Patrick’s Day wine, whiskey and beer, as well as great wines and spirits for spring, Easter, Earth Day, Mother’s Day, and Father’s Day. So if you have wine, spirits, beer, cocktails or mixed drinks that you’d like to suggest that I feature, whether they’re alcoholic or not, please let me know. Meanwhile, I’m still reviewing my favorite wines on Instagram at Natalie MacLean Wine. Connect with me there.

Natalie MacLean 00:06:56 So back to today’s guest. Two of you will win copies of Fiona’s beautiful new book, Ten Great Wine Families” A Tour Through Europe. All you have to do is email me and let me know that you’d like to win. I also still have two copies of Rosemary George’s book, The Wines of Languedoc. I’ll choose four winners randomly from those who contact me at [email protected]. In other bookworm news, if you’re reading the paperback or e-book or listening to the audiobook of my memoir Wine Witch on Fire: Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Defamation, and Drinking Too Much, a national bestseller in one of Amazon’s best Books of the year, I’d like to hear from you at [email protected]. I’d be happy to send you beautifully designed, personally signed book plates for the copies you buy or give as gifts. I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers worldwide at nataliemaclean.com/327. The paperback usually arrives within a day or two of ordering. The e-book and audiobook are instantly available. Okay, on with the show.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:04 So let’s get back to Frescobaldi. This is a fascinating story. 30 generations. You spoke to Lamberto Frescobaldi, but let’s go back in time. It was a banking family, if I understand correctly.

Fiona Morrison 00:08:15 Absolutely. Wine only became a key source of income in the 20th century. They were bankers. Actually, the florin was made by them. Was created by them.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:26  Oh, the coin.

Fiona Morrison 00:08:28  The coin. The foreign coin. They were like the Medicis, who, of course, they fought tooth and nail with. They were hugely influential and they were great patrons of the arts. So they had a lot of money and beautiful estates, which made wine. But of course, in those very aristocratic days, the only trade that you could really do was something about banking. It was very not seen to be working on land, that was for peasants. But one of the key things for them, which was critical and caused them international approbation, but also quite a lot of admiration as well, was they lent a lot of money to Henry VIII, King of England, who most of you will know because he cut off the heads of at least two of his wives and divorced two. But he broke with the Catholic Church after his marriage to his first Spanish wife.

Natalie MacLean 00:09:22 Is this Catherine of Aragon.

Fiona Morrison 00:09:23 Catherine of Aragon, when he wanted to marry Anne Boleyn, and so he was excommunicated from the church. And the Frescobaldi were almost excommunicated from the church because they lent Henry VIII the money to actually pay off Catherine of Aragon and actually extricate themselves from a Catholic church, which was hugely important and created a huge schism and actually created the whole history of Great Britain because Great Britain became Protestant after that. And one of the greatest things that happened was that I was led by the historian of a family who was actually a family member to a castle out in the countryside, up to this turret in the castle. I had to put on a mask and a white gloves and went into this room, and she opened this sliding drawer and took out this parchment that had a seal the size of a dinner plate. And it was a great seal of Henry VIII, and it was the original agreement document, I must say I love history. That was a pretty amazing moment.

Natalie MacLean 00:10:32 Amazing. That’s fantastic. Wow. They had connections. They also knew the famous poet Dante, Dante Alighieri.

Fiona Morrison 00:10:40 As I said, they were patrons of the arts, so they actually gave quite a bit of money to Dante actually. Also, Michelangelo did the dome of their local church, the Church of Santa Spirito. They also had a family musician called Frescobaldi, who was a very famous Renaissance composer, very well known. You have to read the book, but there’s some really good stories about some of the people that they aided and helped. But Florence at that time was so important, and it was so much a capital of the Renaissance, and they were very much at the heart of it.

Natalie MacLean 00:11:18 The heart of it. They even knew Galileo.

Fiona Morrison 00:11:20 Absolutely. Can you imagine sort of walking through the Santa Spirito and sort of seeing the Frescobaldi palaces? And they built the bridge across the Arno, first bridge across the Arno, so that you could get to the left bank of the city. They were incredible.

Natalie MacLean 00:11:35 Wow. And then we’ll stay in Italy with Gaja. Angelo Gaja, whom I’ve met. But describe him. He is a ball of energy. But how would you describe.

Fiona Morrison 00:11:46 Yeah, he really is. I call him maestro.

Natalie MacLean 00:11:49 Okay.

Fiona Morrison 00:11:50 And we both part of an organization of winemakers together. So I see him once or twice a year, and I absolutely adore him. He’s strict. He’s quite frightening. He’s very, very intense in his ideas. And he came from very peasant stock. I mean, Piedmont, during the battles of independence of Italy, Piedmont was very, very poor. And it was his grandfather who really got the ball rolling and started bottling his own wines and the search for excellence and for quality. Angelo was very much a pioneer. His mother was a great character as well and really took over a lot of the estate before Angelo came into the business, but they are uncompromising. He is uncompromising as a person, full of warmth, a bear of a man. These days, he wears his bright red glasses. But he’s got a huge smile and a huge hug and he’s wonderful and. And I adore Gaja, who I’ve spent a lot of time in the vineyards and Rosanna and Giovanni. I’m very close to the family. Rosa, his wife, and he still run the business, although the children have more or less taken over. He says he’s stepping back, but I see him there every day when I’m there. He’s a big man in many, many ways, but he’s very courageous. They started with nothing. If you like, sorry, San Lorenzo is like is for us.

Fiona Morrison 00:13:18 It’s the birthplace of their style of Barbaresco, which also rather like. People think that Barbaresco are very rich and quite tannic. In fact, they are most beautiful, elegant, violet tinted wines which drink so well, especially after about 20, 30 years of age. And I think actually, if I was trying to put a thread through the book. The wines that I love and which reverberate with me of those sort of wines. Maybe I chose people also because I had to really want to go and taste their wines. In the book, it’s probably subjective because it is my style of wines that I like.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:59 And why did he call his daughter Gaja Gaja, first name and last name?

Fiona Morrison 00:14:03 Because he had two daughters to begin with. And it’s funny, there’s not a woman in his family. He said, what if I only have daughters? What’s going to happen to the Gaja name? And so that’s why he called Gaja Gaja. But I love the name Gaja because of course, it’s got so much resonance with the Earth.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:21 It Means Earth goddess?

Fiona Morrison 00:14:22 It’s Earth goddess. And it’s also there are a lot of organizations now, organic organizations and others which are called Gaja and bring this idea. And Gaja herself is really so knitted to the soil. And discussions that I have with her are very earth based. We discuss ideas, we exchange research ideas. And she’s just brilliant. She’s great.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:50 And is it true he charges £300, $400 for a tasting at the winery?

Fiona Morrison 00:14:55 Yes, but very important. We don’t make much wine. They don’t have huge cellar door. They don’t have hostesses like most of these that show people around and then give you a tasting in the church. If you want to go and taste a Gaja, you need to make a contribution, a charity contribution of €300 to their various charities. Piedmont is still quite a poor region, and so they want to give back to the community and to the area what they can. And of course, people who drink Gaja wines, they’re expensive as well, can afford a charity donation. It may seem a little harsh if you’re a student and you want to go and taste the wines, but they are so rare and it’s a way of getting people to think about going on a visit there and giving something back to the community.

Fiona Morrison 00:15:46 It’s quite unusual, but I think it’s a good solution for them.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:48 Absolutely, certainly would winnow out all the bachelorette parties. So then again, they might all contribute. But anyway, Leger Belair, Burgundy’s renowned winery family, why is their’s often known as the greatest vineyard in the world? What is it and why is it so great?

Fiona Morrison 00:16:06 I mean, it’s such an interesting story. The Léger Belair, they live in the Chateau de Vosne-Romanée. So Vosne-Romanée, as most of you probably know, is the most famous village of a Cote d’Or.

Natalie MacLean 00:16:17 That’s where Domaine Romanée-Conti is. and its county is.

Fiona Morrison 00:16:21 And it is where Domaine Romanée-Conti is. But of course there are other vineyards, including a very special vineyard called La Romany, and it belonged to the family. The family were not ennobled like a lot of other people by Napoleon. They were military family, but they had roots in Burgundy and they had this vineyard which passed unfortunately out of the family and for many years. And Louis Michel de Gibernaire, they still had the castle, the wonderful home that they have, the chateau they have. But he really single handedly has managed to reunite them to be an estate again. He is quite controversial because he’s got his bigger than life. He’s got very strong ideas and things. People think he’s quite sort of pompous and snobby and things like that, but I think it’s shyness because there’s a side that I know of him, which is unbelievably thoughtful and kind and questioning, but a lot of people don’t see that side. He’s really worked hard. The wines are absolutely breathtaking. I let you into a little secret. I think actually he makes. Now Romany is probably the best wine in Burgundy.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:30 Even better than DRC.

Fiona Morrison 00:17:34 Oh there, forgive me. But I think but I mean, I love DRC, but I just love the purity of this wine and the way he makes it and his absolute individualism as a person, and the way he makes wines and the way he sells wines, he’s very controversial.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:51 What’s the most controversial thing he said, or an example?

Fiona Morrison 00:17:54 Well, it’s just his attitude because he can be quite dismissive people. He doesn’t take any prisoners and he is so unerringly honest. And so sometimes that comes across. But with us, I mean, sometimes if I ask a stupid question, I get my fingers wrapped. You know, don’t be so stupid. But I adore him and his wife, and I’ve had many evenings talking wine to late into the evening. And I love his family, and I think his really somebody who came into the business, having had come from a military family, and really worked hard to reclaim their Burgundian heritage. It’s a very unique story. It’s great for wine. It’s a very difficult to get hold of these days. They have a great little wine bar in the centre of the Romanee. If any one is passing through, it’s really worth going by. And I think he’s just so individual and brief.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:52 All right. We’ll just hopscotch across the remaining ones. But was there something surprising about the Perrin family in the Rhone Valley of France?

Fiona Morrison 00:19:00 Yeah. I mean, everyone knows Perrin because of Beaucastel.  It’s really famous estate. And they’re building a new winery now, which is so far ahead of its time. It’s adobe style, so it’s really using thermal energy and method with earth and straw to insulate. And it’s very carbon neutral. And it’s going to be a blueprint for wineries in the future. It’s very important. But what I loved there is there are, I think, 7 or 8 children from the two brothers, Francois and Jean-Pierre, Every single one of them has a job in the winery, and it’s rather like going into a Goldilocks house because they share an office. All of them. There are seven desks all around, and one handles this and one handles that, and one handles this market. And can you imagine the force of will, but also the way that the family sticks together. And I’ve been with them. I’ve been with them as a family. It’s not just for show because I’ve seen them with their masks off. And it’s solidarity between so many children working together, laughing together, tasting together. I just think that it’s amazing when I, when I walked into that office and saw all their desks and everyone was saying no jealousy. I thought that was a blueprint of how to run a family business.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:24 That’s a lot of emotional discipline.

Fiona Morrison 00:20:27 Of course. And actually, Jean-Pierre and Francois are quite old fashioned in their discipline for themselves as well as their children. And of course, there’s quite a bit of bling bling because of course they run the need for Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, which is coming apart.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:42 The Miraval, does it make just Rosé or did they?

Fiona Morrison 00:20:45 They make a bit of white.  Of course it’s known for their Rosé. They’ve got into some really good opportunities. But what I love about the family is there are poor areas of the hillsides. Since again, Barone is quite a poor area like Gigondas like Vinsobres. but Cariñena areas which were small villages that have come into their own because they’ve got vineyards or estates and they’re making wines there. And I think that’s lovely because they’ve sprinkled a bit of stardust. If you go to Gigondas, there’s a beautiful little hotel there, a good restaurant, but there’s all been their initiative. They are very anchored in the Rhone, but they have also found ways to make life better for others, for their growers as well. And at the same time keeping this great family solidarity going through the next generation. It’s great.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:40 That’s fantastic. Well, I have to mention Alvaro Palacios in Spain. He’s such a charming man. Everyone wants to be his girlfriend, I think, that I’ve heard talk about him.

Fiona Morrison 00:21:50 Although, of course, what is lovely about Alvaro and Cristina is that he married his school sweetheart.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:56 High school. Oh, wow.

Fiona Morrison 00:21:57 High school sweetheart.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:58 And they’re still together?

Fiona Morrison 00:21:59 And they are inseparable. And they’re wonderful. Cristina is just gorgeous. But what I love about Alvaro, I remember him sort of sitting down with his guitar and playing flamenco music and singing for me. It’s pretty intense. It gets you in the heart. But I’ve also been with him when he’s been so serious and dedicated and tough with himself, and he’s one of the most precise tasters I’ve ever met. hat I like about him is dichotomy of his character. We can be having fun, we can be dancing. And I mean, he loves bullfight going bullfights and dining on the table. And I’ve never laughed so much in my life as with him. But he’s got this very serious, very tough side to his character. He’s very tough with himself and he’s uncompromising with the quality of his wines. I think he’s the best winemaker in Spain at the moment. And what I also love is that he works a lot with Garnacha Grenache.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:01 He’s a big advocate versus the flagship grape, Tempranillo, of the country.

Fiona Morrison 00:23:05 Absolutely. But I think he’s proved that Garnacha is really the climate change grape.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:13 Well, okay. So it’s heat resistant?

Fiona Morrison 00:23:16 It is resisting well. And now it’s showing complexities. We used to be a bit veggie, a little bit herbaceous, and now it’s showing signs of depth of fruit and tannins, which can be quite silky and soft in the right hands.  I think he’s pretty much been the saviour for Garnacha or Grenache, incidentally, so is Perrin in Southern Rhone.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:43 It’s a big advocate for Grenache. Well, okay, well, let’s do some generalities here a little bit. When it comes to marketing and branding, how do you see these traditional families differentiating themselves in a world of celebrity winemakers and new labels and critter brands and all the rest of it? I mean, I know it’s authenticity, story, roots, etc. but is there an example of one of these families that you’ve seen do something really interesting in the way they market their brands?

Fiona Morrison 00:24:12 I think simplicity is really important. Being true to their roots, and the labels have got much cleaner and a much more sober these days than they were in the past. I would like to take a little time to take a little story for Torres, who were known for Sangri de Toro. You know, the little black bull on the, obviously of course that the Cabernet. But one of the things that they did, which has completely changed their outlook and they have done huge amounts on climate change and carbon neutrality and regeneration. In fact, they are once again this year the most admired wine brand. I think it’s very important to show that you’re paying your dues and you’re doing research. But what I loved about Torres is they’ve gone into the mountains, into the villages, and resurrected old native grape varieties, but no one ever knew what they were. They were forgotten varieties. And they’ve created a group of wines called the Ancestral Wines, of which anyone comes across a wine called Forcada, a white wine. It’s the name that they gave to a variety that they found, and it was painstaking. It took years to isolate these varieties to make sure that they were virus free, which is very difficult to do, and to be able to propagate these varieties so that you could can replant them and give a heritage to grapes that have been forgotten. And I think that that for a company that sort of known for in many ways for supermarket wines is a lovely twist to a brand that could be commercial but shows how much they are rooted in their heritage and their history. All of the wines, actually, what I chose for a book were that were rooted in a history, and it comes back a bit, Natalie, to storytelling. It’s really important as a brand to be honest, to tell your story, to not be tempted by trends except trends that will help us make healthier, not necessarily biodynamic or bio wines, but ones that are sustainable, regenerative, and show the diversity of the land around them. Brands that do that, and I would love to written about other brands around the world, I mean, I think what the Jackson family wines are doing around the world.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:29 California.

Fiona Morrison 00:26:30 California. They’re everywhere. They’re in Australia. They’re in New Zealand. They’re in Italy. They’re in Spain.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:33 True.

Fiona Morrison 00:26:34 Bordeaux.  I think is extraordinary. So family brands that root themselves in a sense of place. To me, that is what the consumer, the wine consumer today really responds to.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:49 Absolutely. We’re all looking for the story behind the bottle. I mean, those of us who care about what we buy, just like Fairtrade and sustainability and ethical practices and everything else.

Fiona Morrison 00:27:03 It’s a rolling stone, and it’s lovely to see how it’s taking on and how you do not have to be a huge brand to be able to embrace that movement.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:14 Yes, absolutely. In fact, the strongest brands often start off so small but are so close knit with their story that that’s what resonates and makes them into a global phenomenon.

Fiona Morrison 00:27:20 Look at the success of Burgundy today. That’s exactly what it’s about.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:28 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, all of these families produce luxury wines. How do they view the concept of luxury, and why do they see their wines as luxury goods or something else entirely?

Fiona Morrison 00:27:42 I think we’re all a little bashful at times  because we’re making the wines the best we can, and it’s a market that has just taken those wines and run with them. It is quite a difficult question, because of course in their world they’d be accessible to everybody. But luxury is usually something that is imposed on a product when it goes to market because of its rarity. And when you look at something like Dom Perignon, everyone thinks about as a luxury brand. What the absolute genius of Moet Hennessy has been is that that brand is actually several million bottles are made and yet it still has that luxury image. So sorry if I’m repeating myself, but I think it comes down to being true to your origins, making the best wine you can. Whether it’s an Hermes bag which has been stitched by hand and takes three weeks to make, or a bottle of Domaine de la Romanée Conti, it’s the handiwork it seems. But to me, it is my idea of luxury. I don’t think any of us wine people would like our idea of luxury to be bling bling.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:55 Sure.

Fiona Morrison 00:28:56 It’s something more rooted into the soil, into the sense of place. And thank God, because that gives us our anchor.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:02 Yes. In all your travels and visits, is there a particular tasting that stands out? Maybe it was an old bottle, rare bottle, or maybe it wasn’t, but a particular tasting that you remember from all your research?

Fiona Morrison 00:29:15 Funny enough, and it might surprise you. Like a lot of MWs, I absolutely adore Riesling as a grape. I adore Riesling. It’s quite low alcohol which is good in these times, but it so beautifully reflects, like a crystal glass, many facets of a great wine. And Egon Muller in Germany, in the Mosel, makes to me the absolute top, top Riesling in the world. It is like nothing else made. It just is so balanced and so pure. And he and I were born in the same vintage, which is a very good vintage, and one day he came to visit me in Bordeaux with with his friends at Trimbach, who are great friends of his and mine. And he bought me a bottle of TBA ’59, which was such a mystical wine. I’d never thought I’d taste that one in my life. And we’d had a very big day tasting and we had dinner at our house, big fire burning and things like that. At the end of the evening he went to the car and he bought out this bottle and we all burst into tears because it was just so perfect and so beautiful, and it was just the right occasion to have it.  It was crystal clear and pure and had so much flavour to it. And it’d be a TBA, of course. Is very sweet. But of course it didn’t taste sweet because it had this lovely richness and dry extract to it, and it was youthful still and just gorgeous and nectar of the gods. So it was, of course. I’d been lucky to taste a lot of the sort of wines that people talk about, but I think that was probably the most surprising and the most beautiful surprise I’ve ever had.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:59 Wonderful. Moved you to tears. Holy smokes. This is marvelous. Well time has flown, so let’s just get to some of the wrap up questions. Can you tell us about a favourite childhood food and what you’d pair today with it as an adult?

Fiona Morrison 00:31:15 I grew up in Scotland, so smoked salmon was always something we had and sea urchins from the walls of the cliffs and a lot of seafood. And we used to drink that with really good Sancerre. And it wasn’t the sense that it was a great wine, but it was the first incredible food and wine matching. And I think we started drinking wine when we were about 12, 14 years old. My father, I think, when I turned 18, bought out a bottle of… which is already one of my complete wines. Everyone knows about it, and especially when making wines on the right bank.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:52 Beautiful Bordeaux.

Fiona Morrison 00:31:53 We’re having very, very old… from the 50s, and just being totally knocked outfit away could have so much flavour. The freshness still.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:04 Wow. So lovely. And if you could share a bottle of wine with anyone outside of the wine world, living or dead, who would that be and what bottle would you open?

Fiona Morrison 00:32:12 I think what I would love to do, I think the person I admire most is Shakespeare. I was an English literature graduate. I did a degree in comparative literature at the Sorbonne. Shakespeare has been with me all my life, really, and I love his sonnets and I love his plays. And I’m a really avid theatre. And I think I would share a very, very old Madeira with him.  Sort of sounds sort of Tudorish enough by the fire and probably want to recite poetry to him or with him or whatever. But I think how modern he was and how absolutely alive his plays are still and how much they do. And so, yeah, I mean, people talk about the Dalai Lama and people like that, but I would say the person who’s really stuck with me most of my life is Shakespeare.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:04 His literature lived just as some wines do, at least even in our memories. This wonderful Fiona. As we wrap up our conversation, is there anything you wanted to mention that we haven’t touched on.

Fiona Morrison 00:33:16 I think what I would really love to say is for everyone out there who loves wine, find out about the stories and tell the stories. They’re so interesting. If you can go and see the producers, go and see them. As long as you write to a long time ahead, a lot of people have opened their doors. The next generation is so important. We use to talk at the moment let’s   say young people are not drinking so much wine, but read. I got into wine by reading and tasting. It’s such a magic world. Don’t be intimidated by it. Go and taste wines and it will be a companion for great meals, but also great conversations and great travel for rest of your life.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:59 Wise words. Where can we find you and your books online?

Fiona Morrison 00:34:04 Académie du Vin Library is the great source. And actually my book is available on that notorious online book.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:15 Retailer that begins with A.

Fiona Morrison 00:34:17 But you can find me in them all. I’m on Instagram. Fiona McLeod Morrison, very Scottish name. You can also find me for BMVs and things like that, or through the Domaine Jacques Thienpont. I’m around. I travel quite a lot. I’ve got lots of friends in the wine business. I’m often in Bordeaux, so I’m on the right bank of Bordeaux.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:39 Okay, well, we’ll look for you there. I’m going to say goodbye for now, And I hope we can do this over a glass of wine. Maybe not yours, but somebody we can afford.

Fiona Morrison 00:34:49 I had a lovely visit to Canada last year last year in the Okangan Valley.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:52 Beautiful region.

Fiona Morrison 00:34:56 So thank you. I really enjoyed this conversation, Natalie.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:59 Thanks, Fiona. Okay. Bye bye for now.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:03 Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Fiona. Here are my takeaways. Number one, how do traditional wine families, differentiate their brands and market their wines in such a crowded marketplace? Simplicity and being true to their roots are two key factors, Fiona points out. Family labels have become much cleaner and much more sober these days than they were in the past. The Torres family of Spain has also done huge amounts on climate change and carbon neutrality and regeneration. In fact, they are once again this year the most admired wine brand in the world. I think it’s very important to show that you’re paying your dues and doing your research, she says. But what she loved about Torres is that they’ve gone into the mountains, into the villages and resurrected old native grape varieties in Spain. No one knew what these were. They were forgotten. And they’ve created a group of wines called the Ancestral Wines. It took years to isolate these varieties and to make sure they were virus free, which is very difficult to do. To be able to propagate these varieties, you need to replant them and give a heritage to grapes that are being forgotten. It shows how much the winery is rooted in their heritage and history.

Natalie MacLean 00:36:23 Number two, how has the Gaja family of Italy made significant contributions to winemaking and to the Piedmont community? As Fiona observes, they don’t make much wine and they don’t have a huge cellar. They also don’t have hostesses, like many other vineyards do, that show people around and give you a tasting if you want to go and taste a Gaja wine. You need to contribute €300, so about $450 to their various charities that they support. Piedmont is still quite a poor region, and so the winery wants to give back to the community and to the area where they can. Of course, people who drink Gaja wines, which are very expensive, can usually afford to give a charitable donation. It’s quite unusual, but she thinks it’s a good solution for them and I have to agree.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:12 And number three, what is unique about Famille Perrin in France and especially their approach to running their family wine business? Fiona says that everyone knows Perrin because of Chateau Beaucastel in France. It’s a famous estate building a new winery now which is so far ahead of its time, she says. It’s an adobe style, so it’s using thermal energy with earth and straw to insulate, so it’s carbon neutral. She believes it’s going to be a blueprint for winery buildings in the future. There are 7 or 8 children from two brothers, Francois and Jean-Pierre Perrin. Every single one of them has a job in the winery, she says. It’s rather like going into a Goldilocks house because they all share one office. There are seven desks all around, with each person handling a different aspect of the business. Can you imagine the force of will to work together like this, she asks, but it’s also the way the family sticks together. This solidarity between so many children working together, laughing together, tasting together. She thinks it’s amazing. And it’s also a blueprint for how to run a family business.

Natalie MacLean 00:38:38 In the show notes, you’ll find the full transcript of my conversation with Fiona, links to her website, and books the video versions of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube live, and where you can order my book online now, no matter where you live. If you missed episode 287, go back and take a listen. I chat about Italy in a glass, the story of Italy through its wines with Marc Millon. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Marc Millon 00:38:50 It’s really interesting how Italy has more native grape varieties than any other country in the world for producing for wines.

Natalie MacLean 00:38:59 How many does it have, approximately?

Marc Millon 00:39:01 There are probably as many as 2000 different grape varieties still grown here, but 600 certainly in production. But I think what’s really interesting is the story of how some of these grape varieties were only saved by the efforts of really amazing wine producers who believed in the grapes, and who worked hard to save them from literal extinction. An example would be the Fiano grape. Now Fiano, we’re seeing a lot more Fiano now. It’s not just grown in its heartland of Irpinia, which is inland Campania, but it’s grown in Sicily quite widely, a little bit in Calabria, and I’m sure cultivated outside of the country as well.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:51 You won’t want to miss next week when we chat with Steve Hoffman, author of the best selling new memoir A Season For That: Lost and Found in the Other Southern France. He’ll join us from his home on Turtle Lake, Minnesota, where he lives with his wife, their elderly and entitled pug, and roughly 80,000 honeybees. If you like this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell a one friend about the podcast this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in learning more about the wines from the great families of Europe. It’s easy to find my podcast. Just tell them to search for Natalie MacLean Wine on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favorite podcast app, or they can listen to the show on my website at nataliemaclean.com/podcast.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:40 Email me if you have  sip, tip, question, or if you’d like to win one of four copies of Fiona’s or Rosemary’s books or if you’ve read mine or listening to it, I’d also love to hear your thoughts about this episode. Were you surprised about any of these families’ histories? Have you tried any of the wines that these families make? Email me at Natalie@ nataliemaclean.com

Natalie MacLean 00:41:01 In the show notes, you’ll also find a link to take a free online food and wine pairing class with me, called The Five Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes that can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever because I believe in happily ever after. You will find that at nataliemaclean.com/class. That is all in the show notes at Natalie MacLean. Com forward slash 3 to 7. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a full bodied parent family read.

Natalie MacLean 00:41:36 You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at nataliemaclean.com/subscribe. Meet me here next week. Cheers.

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