The Ultimate Travel Guide for Wine Lovers with Decanter Magazine’s Editor Amy Wislocki

Natalie MacLean
Jul2nd

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Introduction

Why does wine taste different when you’ve stood in the vineyard it came from? What’s one myth about wine travel that Amy dispels? With Gen Z drinking less wine, how does a 50-year-old wine magazine stay relevant without alienating longtime readers?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter, the world’s most prestigious wine magazine.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, The Ultimate Wine Lover’s Travel Guide.

 

How to Win

To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast.

It takes less than 30 seconds: On your phone, scroll to the bottom here, where the reviews are, and click on “Tap to Rate.”

After that, scroll down a tiny bit more and click on “Write a Review.” That’s it!

I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me.

Good luck!

 

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Join the live-stream video of this conversation on Wednesday at 7 pm eastern on Instagram Live Video, Facebook Live Video or YouTube Live Video.

I’ll be jumping into the comments as we watch it together so that I can answer your questions in real-time.

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Highlights

  • What was it like to join Decanter magazine as a 27-year-old magazine editor?
  • How did Amy establish her credibility as a young editor?
  • What exciting incident marked one of her press trips to Chile?
  • Which aspects of wine writing are often misunderstood or undervalued?
  • How does Decanter balance engaging Gen Z readers without alienating their long-term readers?
  • Why has Decanter started reviewing low-alcohol wines?
  • What’s made Amy stay at Decanter for 25 years>
  • What’s one myth about wine travel that Amy hopes this book dispels?
  • Why is the experience of tasting wine at the vineyard where it’s made so powerful?
  • What are some of Amy’s favourite essays in
  • Why did Amy include South Carolina, which has no vineyards, in her wine travel book?

 

Key Takeaways

  • Why does wine taste different when you’ve stood in the vineyard it came from?
    • As Amy observes, anybody who’s visited a vineyard will understand that there’s no substitute. You will have a different relationship with that wine for the rest of your life. The lucky thing is that wine growing areas are often the most beautiful areas of the world. You can see what type of soil it is like. The climate might be very near to the ocean, with the cooling breezes. So that side of it will really give you a better understanding of why that wine tastes like it does. You see the age of the vines. Also meeting the people behind the wine. It could be a small, family-owned winery. Hearing the stories associated with the wine. Drinking them with the food of the place and in that environment. It’s an irreplaceable experience.
  • What’s one myth about wine travel that you hope this book dispels?
    • Amy says the main thing is that it has to be an elitist thing, because I suppose wine in general has the elitist kind of associations. And I think it’s just getting across that you don’t have to have tons of money and only drink the world’s finest wines to enjoy wine travel. It’s just becoming much more accessible to everyone, and in so many more regions and countries than it was.
  • With Gen Z drinking less wine, how does a 50-year-old wine magazine stay relevant without alienating longtime readers?
    • Amy explains that it’s many things: recognizing moderation as a trend. It’s a tricky one to get right, and you don’t want to be preaching to people. You don’t want people who think I’m buying a wine magazine because I love wine. I don’t want to be made to feel guilty for drinking wine. This is my refuge. But it’s not about that. It’s about recognizing a trend that even among wine lovers, people are trying to kind of think about how and when and where they’re drinking, how much they’re drinking. Obviously, there are some things that Gen Z will want to read about that our more traditional conservative readers might not all be so bothered about, like natural wines. It’s all a balance, isn’t it? And trying to give something to everybody.

 

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You don’t have to have tons of money and only drink the world’s finest wines to enjoy wine travel. - Amy Wislocki Amy Wislocki Click to tweet

 

About Amy Wislocki

Amy has more than 30 years’ experience in publishing, and worked at a senior level for leading companies in the consumer, business-to-business and contract publishing arenas before joining Decanter in October 2000 as Magazine Editor. As well as overseeing content planning and production for the print offering, she has also been involved in developing digital channels, Decanter.com and Decanter Premium.

 

Resources

 

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Thirsty for more?

  • Sign up for my free online wine video class where I’ll walk you through The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!)
  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on Amazon.ca, Amazon.com and other country-specific Amazon sites; iTunes.ca, iTunes.com and other country-specific iTunes sites; Audible.ca and Audible.com.

 

Transcript

Natalie MacLean 00:00:00 Why does wine taste different when you’ve actually stood in the vineyard where it was made? What’s the one myth about wine travel that you should not believe? And with Generation Z drinking less wine, how does a 50 year old wine magazine stay relevant without alienating long time readers? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions. In our chat with Amy Wislocki, editor in chief of Decanter, the world’s most prestigious wine magazine. By the end of our conversation, you’ll also discover what it was like to join Decanter magazine as a 27 year old editor. How Amy established her credibility as a young editor. The exciting incident that marked one of her press trips to Chile. The aspects of wine writing that are most often misunderstood or undervalued. Why Decanter has started reviewing low alcohol wines. What’s made Amy stay at Decanter for 25 years. Some of Amy’s favourite essays in her new book. And why Amy included some regions that have no vineyards in her new book.

Natalie MacLean 00:01:25 Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean. And each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now, pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:08 Welcome to episode 344. Canada Day was yesterday, but I’m still celebrating the wonderful wines, spirits, and cheeses that we make in this country. So I’ll share my recommendations with you that were part of my guest appearance recently on CITY TV’s Breakfast television. So the host’s name is Tim Bolen. So just start at the top here. Hey, Tim, it’s great to be back with you. These bottles are more Canadian than a red plaid shirt. And more delicious than a whole basket of Beaver Tails. And I do mean the pastries, not the critter. So we’re kicking things off with some wine. But first trivia time. So let me know if you think the following statement is true or false with your paddle. He had voting paddles. You can guess in your mind. Pinot Grigio was once banned from being grown in Ontario? Doo doo doo doo doo doo. Okay. It’s false, but Pinot Grigio was rare for a long time. Canada has been making wine since the late 1800s, but it was pretty rustic stuff. It wasn’t until the late 1970s that noble grapes like Pinot Grigio were even planted.

Natalie MacLean 00:03:30 Now these classic wines come in summer-friendly formats, like the tetra packs I had with me from Peller Family Estates in Ontario. Perfect for the patio, poolside and camping. The Pinot Grigio is zesty and refreshing with notes of citrus, green apple and white peach. It pairs beautifully with seafood salads and lighter cheeses like this Balderson mature Havarti. The wine’s bright acidity cuts through the cheese’s buttery flavours faster than a lumberjack and a “holler timber!” Fun fact: Balderson has been making cheese in Canada for 140 years, using 100% Canadian milk. I also have the Peller Family Estates Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot, a full-bodied blend that’s smooth and juicy with dark berry flavours. It’s built for grilled burgers, ribs, or this one-year-aged Balderson cheddar. That rich, nutty cheese elevates the fruit and spice in the wine. This pairing isn’t just a match, it’s a culinary duet. Think Joni Mitchell meets Leonard Cohen, but edible. Supporting Canadian wineries and cheesemakers means investing in the families and farmers behind these labels. And by the way, Balderson Cheddars are available at just about every grocery store, even some drugstores. They’re available widely across the country.

Natalie MacLean 00:04:48 So what’s up next in our class and on the trivia board? All right. True or false? British Columbia’s Similkameen Valley is drier than Napa Valley. And yes, I practiced Similkameen in the mirror 17 times before having to go on the TV segment. So that’s true. It’s one of Canada’s driest regions, with intense sunlight and fierce winds that make for concentrated, expressive wines like this Clos du Soleil Signature red. It’s basically the Canadian Rockies in liquid form. The winery specializes in Bordeaux blends of Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Cabernet Franc, Malbec, and Petit Verdot. They’re bold, structured and beautifully balanced. They farm organically and biodynamically, letting the rocky soils and mountain sunshine shine through in every sip. “Soleil” means sun. This is the kind of wine that tells a story that’s elegant yet powerful like the landscape it comes from. Try it with steak, grilled portobello mushrooms, or this two-year-aged Balderson cheddar. They’re better together. By the way, with all of the wines I’m mentioning, they are available in a lot of liquor stores throughout the country, but you can also order them directly from the wineries and they’ll ship to your doorstep wherever you live in Canada. For my listeners outside of Canada, come visit us. These wineries are beautiful to visit and then you can enjoy the wines as well.

Natalie MacLean 00:06:24 Now we’re moving on to some Canadian spirits. Yes, and it’s time to keep the trivia rolling. True or false? The Caesar was invented in Las Vegas in 1969 to commemorate the opening of Caesar’s Palace. False. It was actually invented in Calgary in 1969. Parliament made it Canada’s official national cocktail in 2009, which was probably the last time that all parties agreed on anything. We have the Prince Igor Extreme Pickle Vodka from Ontario to give the Caesar a briny, peppery pickle punch. It’s bold, savoury, and the perfect way to add a little heat to your weekend. Think of it as the spicy sibling of the Bloody Mary, but with a Canadian passport. Pair it with Balderson Extra Old Cheddar.

Natalie MacLean 00:07:01 And my final recommendation for Canada Day and beyond: I have the Seagram’s VO, a Canadian whisky classic made in Québec. It’s smooth, mellow and rich, with notes of caramel, toffee and warm spice. So true or false? The VO stands for very original. That’s false, and it’s a tricky one. VO stands for Very Own, a nod to Joseph Seagram’s desire to create a personal blend to celebrate his son’s wedding. It was such a hit at the reception that they turned it into a commercial release. Enjoy this whisky neat or on the rocks. Paired with Balderson Truffle Cheddar, the cheese brings out the intensity and the whisky’s depth. It’s sweet meets savoury with a whisper of smoke. And I have to say, Balderson Truffled Cheddar, I call it an intervention cheese, because someone is going to need to conduct a whole intervention meeting with me to stop me from eating it. It is so good.  So isn’t it great when patriotism tastes this good? And Tim wrapped it up by saying, where can we find you and these wine, spirits and cheeses online? So on Instagram I’m at Natalie MacLean Wine. And online, my website is natalie maclean.com.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:34 Back to today’s episode. Two of you are going to win a copy of Decanter magazine’s new book, The Ultimate Travel Guide for Wine Lovers. Brand new, off the publishing presses, whatever they do. But it’s got so many good tips in it. I also have one copy left of the award winning book, Vines in a Cold Climate, about English wine by Henry Jeffreys, and three copies of the hilarious book, I bought it, so I’ll drink it. If you’d like to win a copy, please email me and let me know you’d like to win.  It doesn’t matter where you live. I’ll choose the winners randomly from those who contact me at [email protected]. In other bookish news, if you’re reading the paperback or e-book or listening to the audiobook of my memoir Wine Witch on Fire: Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Defamation and Drinking Too Much, a national bestseller and one of Amazon’s best books of the year, I’d love to hear from you at [email protected]. I’d be happy to send you beautifully designed, personally signed book plates for the copies you buy or give as gifts. I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers worldwide at nataliemaclean.com/344

Natalie MacLean 00:09:46 Okay, on with the show. Amy Wislocki has more than 30 years experience in publishing, having worked at the senior levels for leading companies in the consumer, business to business and contract publishing arenas. In 2000, she joined Decanter as magazine editor, as well as overseeing content planning and production for the print publication. She has also been involved in developing digital channels Decanter and Decanter Premium. And she joins us now from London. Welcome, Amy. We’re so glad to have you here with us.

Amy Wislocki 00:10:17 I’m delighted to be here. Hello.

Natalie MacLean 00:10:19 Hello. So you’ve had quite a career, Amy. Let’s start with that pivotal moment. 25 years ago when you joined Decanter magazine. I would say it is the world’s most influential, most prestigious wine magazine. And you were just 27 years old. So what was the process like? Did you have to go through some interviews? And what turned you toward I think I’ll become editor of a wine magazine?

Amy Wislocki 00:10:45 So at the time, I was working for a contract magazine publisher, Redwood, and I was editing a quarterly magazine that went to small and medium sized enterprises for BT, the telephone company. It was in the heyday of publishing, taxis everywhere, would never have dreamed of getting the Tube, long lunches quite easy because it was a quarterly magazine. It was a very nice, glamorous, easy existence, but I just felt that I was too young to coast it and that I needed to have more of a challenge.  So I decided it was time to look for something else. And wine was my major passion even back then. So I thought, okay, what would my dream job be? My dream job would be to combine wine and what I know about, which is editing magazines. At the time, there were only two real wine magazines on the shelves. Now there’s only one, Decanter. But at the time, there were two. So just fortuitously, I learned that both magazines were looking for an editor at the same time, and I was interviewed for both roles. And I got to the second place for the other one magazine, which is now no longer existing. So lucky that I didn’t go there. And I got the job at Decanter. But yes, lots of interviews and very terrifying.

Natalie MacLean 00:12:04 Was it? You were only 27 and wow, I mean, wine has this social stigma as it is. And you’re young even though it’s your passion. What was the interview process like? Were there multiple interviews? Were they all scary suit people?  What was it like?

Amy Wislocki 00:12:17 They were. When I was first interviewed for the job, at the time, the publishing company that owned Decanter said they were going to launch a new magazine about wine, more at beginner level, so I probably wouldn’t have even applied for the job at Decanter, because I would have just assumed that they’d be looking for somebody with more wine knowledge. But they said, oh, this is going to be a new magazine. more for beginners. And so I had to come up with concepts etcetera, etcetera. Anyway, I went through that interview process and then that all went quiet. And then a few months later they said, actually that’s no longer happening, but would you like to be interviewed for the job as editor of Decanter? And the publishing director, Sarah Kemp, in the end she worked there for 30 years. She was an incredible woman, very formidable, very knowledgeable, very strong character. And she interviewed me. And I remember coming out of one of the interviews, it wasn’t the first interview, but it might have been the second or third interview. And I remember I phoned my mum. I was walking along the street back to the station. I said I really screwed it up. I really wanted that job. I really screwed it up and I was convinced that that was it. And I ended up getting the job.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:21 Wow. That’s a tribute to your own modesty. So what was the first thing you did to establish your credibility as this young editor at this prestigious magazine? What were your first moves?

Amy Wislocki 00:13:34 I mean, I’m not really that kind of person that will come in and start making myself presence felt and all that. So I just came in and just wanted to get to know the people who were there and see what their different talents and skills were, and just to bring out the best in people. And, I’d done wine courses for my own interest already, and I knew about magazines and I felt comfortable with editing a magazine. So at the end of the day, obviously I’ve worked at Decanter for 25 years. And I’ve learned a certain amount about wine in that time. And compared to obviously lots of people, I probably do know much more than them about wine, but I don’t see myself as a wine professional. I’m not a Master of Wine. Most of my writers know more about their specialist areas in wine than I do. I’m a magazine editor, and I felt comfortable as a magazine editor.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:24 Yeah, well, that makes sense. You had your expertise. Tell us about one press trip you went on to Chile. What were the adventures you had there?

Amy Wislocki 00:14:32 In the past, I did quite some amazing trips. I was very lucky. And we did go to Chile. And as part of that trip, we were taken by one of the wineries up a mountainside for a beautiful picnic overlooking lovely views etcetera etcetera. With obviously drinking their nice wine. And then they said would you like to ride a horse? Have a little ride on the horse. And I said, well, I’ve never ridden before. And they were like, no, no, no, the horse is very docile or tame or it’ll be fine. So I thought, okay. Why not have a go? A new experiences and all that. So I got on the horse and then obviously my horse just chose to kind of decide to bolt down the mountain. And I had no. And I was absolutely terrified. And somebody had to ride up behind me and grab the reins of this horse and make it stop. And just imagine their horror if hey’d killed the editor of Decanter [laughter].

Natalie MacLean 00:15:23 I don’t think it would have been very good press coverage. She said she liked the wine before we last saw her go off into the sunset. But who could argue with that? That sounds terrifying. Only humorous in retrospect, I’m sure.  You, as editor of Decanter, are now celebrating its 50th anniversary. You’ve had a front row seat to the evolving world of wine journalism.What’s the one aspect of wine writing or criticism that you believe is often misunderstood, or maybe undervalued by wine readers?

Amy Wislocki 00:15:55 A couple of things really. I would say probably that scores. You know, there is this fixation on scores. And I understand that scores are useful to people. I get that. And I think that’s fine. And they are useful. But I think people just sometimes don’t look beyond that and don’t really realize the importance of what the critics are saying besides the score. So like their tasting notes about the wine and also finding a palate that you align with. So obviously everybody has different tastes, everyone has different palates. So it’s just recognizing the fact that some wine critics will like the same kind of wines that you do. Some critics will like different types of wines. So trying to kind of actually take time to read the tasting notes and realize. I think the other thing would be really. Some people just underestimate the value of actual knowledge and expertise and experience. And at the end of the day, that’s why Decanter has this amazing reputation. And not just in the magazine, but like with our awards. It’s now the world’s biggest wine competition. We use the real experts on their regions who really know the wines and have tasted the wine over the years. So if they’re tasting the latest release of one of the top Bordeaux wines or one of the Super Tuscans, they can think of them like well this is how it’s different to the last vintage or the last five vintages. They’ll know the wine intimately. They’ll know the other wines of the region. So it’s just that valuing. And I’m not saying it’s not good that wine is more democratic now, and obviously it’s more accessible. And there’s wine over on social media and everything, and that’s great. But it’s just recognizing the value of real expertise and experience, I think.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:33 Absolutely. It’s why. I mean, I’m based in Ottawa, Ontario, but I subscribe to a number of newspapers, including The New York Times and Decanter. Reminds me in some ways of the New York Times in terms of credibility, expertise, trust. There’s so much free info. I think there’s more need than ever to have trusted publications and to pay for them, for the work. But we’re preaching off the same whatever song sheet. I would underscore your point. Now, the biggest decline in wine consumption, as you know, has been among members of Gen Z. How are you trying to re-engage them without alienating your traditional readers, your older readers?

Amy Wislocki 00:18:15 How long have you got? I mean, the Gen Z thing. Yes, there is that trend towards a lot more of them are not really drinking as much, but I think some of that is around what they can afford partly. So I think as they get older there is some evidence that they will kind of re-engage with wine and some of them are interested. I guess it’s many things. I mean, recognizing moderation as a trend. So our next issue, which comes out at the beginning of June, the cover story is about moderation. Now, that’s quite a big thing for a newsstandy magazine to lead with a story on moderation. And it’s a tricky one to get right. And you don’t want to be preaching to people and to people who think I’m buying a wine magazine because I love wine. I don’t want to be made to feel guilty for drinking wine. This is my refuge. But it’s not about that. It’s not about trying to make people feel guilty. It’s about recognizing a trend, that even among wine lovers people are trying to kind of think about how and when, where they’re drinking, how much they’re drinking. So it’s how do you navigate that as a wine lover? So it’s being prepared to recognize these trends. So in the end we did a cover. So the cover line I put a lot of thought into it. And we have the word pleasure quite large on the cover line along with that. So hopefully we’ve struck the right chord.

Amy Wislocki 00:19:32 So it’s about recognizing the things that they’re interested in. And also it’s a balance obviously. There are some things that they will want to read about that are more traditional conservative readers might not all be so bothered about. Things like natural wines for instance. Some of our more conservative readers are not interested in natural wine, but when we think about it, it’s all a balance. And we think of ourselves as having kind of three types of readers. So we have them in our mind. They have names. We have Joe, Stefan and Richard. And when we kind of plan our content, we’re thinking about those three readers. And which reader is this aimed at, trying to kind of serve all of their needs at the same time. And obviously some bits of the magazine are going to be pitched maybe below the knowledge level of our long term connoisseur readers. And some things won’t be of interest if we’re writing about en primeur First Growths tasting notes. En primeur, that’s not going to be relevant to some of the Gen Z readers. But it’s all a balance, isn’t it? And trying to give something to everybody.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:29 Absolutely. You mentioned Joe, Stefan  Steffen, and there was one more.

Amy Wislocki 00:20:32 Richard.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:32 Richard. What about Emily? June and Mary? Are most of your readers men?

Amy Wislocki 00:20:36 No. Jo was a woman.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:37 Oh, Jo is a woman.

Amy Wislocki 00:20:38 I thought that in advance when I thought Jo was not a good choice of name, because it should have been a name that was clearly a woman. But yes, Jo is a woman.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:46 Yes.

Amy Wislocki 00:20:47 More of our readers are women and people who come to our events there are growing, thankfully, you know, female wine lovers as well as you know I’m sure.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:55 Absolutely. That’s a big change, too. So you’re writing about moderation. Do you review low and no alcohol wines? I’m just curious.

Amy Wislocki 00:21:01 Well, it’s funny you should say that because we’ve been discussing it. I mean, we do articles. We do sometimes write about that kind of thing. But so far so we don’t put them into our database online. We have just decided to start including the occasional no and low recommendation in our kind of week day wine selection because, like you say, it’s such a massive thing. It’s stupid to pretend it doesn’t exist. So I think just to have the odd one included is probably a good thing.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:28 I think so. There’s a real demand for it. And then there’s a real industry argument that it’s not real wine if it doesn’t have alcohol. But that’s another podcast. So publishing is known for short tenures in terms of how long writers and editors stay with the publication. 25 years, what’s made you want to stay with Decanter that long?

Amy Wislocki 00:21:46 I mean, when people say to me, how long have you been at Decanter? And I always feel embarrassed sometimes saying, 25 years, you know? But to be honest, I mean, it sounds corny, but what better job?

Natalie MacLean 00:21:55 It’s true.

Amy Wislocki 00:21:56 If you’re an editor and you love wine, I mean, I can’t think of a better job than being editor of Decanter. I’ve had some amazing experiences. I’ve met some amazing people. I get to drink wine that I could never afford to buy with my own money. I work with some great people. And I’m really proud to be part of the brand. So why would I want to go anywhere else? And actually, even if I did it from a practical sense, it’s much harder to make a living as you know these days. It’s not easy to make a living as a freelance writer or editor even if you’re a great writer or you’re really talented. It’s a hard living. So I feel very privileged and lucky to be where I am.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:34 Absolutely, absolutely. So let’s talk about the Ultimate Wine Travel Guide, this new book that’s coming out. It will be available when this podcast is published, not just in the UK but Canada, the US, worldwide, presumably Amazon, the booksellers and so on. What’s one myth about wine travel that you hope this book dispels?

Amy Wislocki 00:22:55 I think the main thing is that it has to be an elitist thing, because I suppose wine in general has the elitist kind of associations. And I think it’s just getting across that you don’t have to have tons of money and only drink the world’s finest wines to enjoy wine travel. It’s just becoming much more accessible to everyone in so many more regions and countries than it was. That’s probably the main message.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:19 And I love that phrase. I think it might have been one of your writers who said, standing in the landscape is a way to understand wine. Andrew Jefford might have said that.  He’s so poetic. What do you think that means in concrete terms? Is that the difference between tasting wine at home and reading about a place versus standing where it’s made? I mean, what’s going on there?

Amy Wislocki 00:23:40 I think anybody who’s visited a vineyard and been on a kind of wine holiday will understand that. It’s just there’s no substitute. And it’s about any vineyard that you actually visit. You will have a different relationship with that wine for the rest of your life, because when you go there and it is partly about the actual physical environment. And the lucky thing is that wine growing areas are often the most beautiful areas of the world. Not always, but often, they are the most beautiful areas of the world. And standing there,  you might be in a vineyard, you see. Or it might be on a steep slope. You can see what type of soil it is. The topography you can feel. The climate might be very near to the ocean with the cooling breezes. So that side of it will really give you a better understanding of why that wine tastes like it does. It could be like you see the age of the vines. They might be really old vines that are producing fruit with lots of character. But also meeting the people behind the wine. It could be a small, family owned winery, you know, hearing the stories associated with the wine. Actually, part of it is the sheer thing about availability. Lots of the most interesting, amazing wines might not even be available outside of that region or outside of the country. Some of them don’t really get exported. So it’s partly about if you think of somewhere like Switzerland or something, where most of the great wines don’t make their way outside of Switzerland. They’ve got a massive market within the country. And then it’s also things like drinking them with the food of the place in that environment. It’s just a kind of irreplaceable experience, I think, in so many ways.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:12 Absolutely. I again underscore your point, because I have a much deeper connection to wines where I’ve visited the place, maybe talked to the winemaker, tasted the wines. There’s more senses that are engaged. It’s a deeper laying down of memories or something. I don’t know what it is, but it’s powerful. So yes. I understand that this book is based on a compilation of essays that have been published in Decanter, but you’ve curated them, written the foreword, put them together in this beautiful package with the photos and everything. But when perhaps the original essays were being written, which region gave you and your writers maybe the greatest challenge editorially to do the story, maybe based on language or access or complexity or or some other aspect?

Amy Wislocki 00:25:56 Generally, we have our stories written by either people who live in the region, who know the region very well, or people who visit the region often so that they have that genuine kind of insider knowledge so they can usually navigate it.  So the challenges usually occur when we are editing the story, so when we’re checking the facts for instance, and trying to get pictures because obviously some regions, especially like the tiny wineries, often they don’t even have a website yet. They don’t speak English. So trying to verify anything sometimes can be very difficult. And obviously some regions are a lot more slick than others, and some will have associations that can help you with that kind of wine tourism bodies, and some won’t have anything like that. So yes, it’s often the kind of smaller, more emerging ones where that’s more challenging.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:45 Sure. That’s understandable. And is there one particular story from the book that made the strongest impression on you? I’m sure you love all your children, all your essays, but is there one that stands out or one that comes to mind off the top of your head now?

Amy Wislocki 00:27:01 I think they stand out for different reasons. I mean, like so some of them, even as editor of Decanter, there’s some regions that I haven’t explored as widely as I would like to. So there are some that stand out just because I just think, oh wow, I really want to do that. And it is a beautiful kind of coffee table book with lots of nice glossy photos and things. So you do kind of look.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:19 What would be an example of that?

Amy Wislocki 00:27:21 Alsace. I have been there once, but oh, what a region. I love the wines of Alsace. Beautiful towns. I love  choucroute and stuff like the food and everything. The countryside. Certainly Alsace, that one’s a good one. I’d love to go there. Tours and Touraine in the Loire. That also looked lovely. And then in another way, the ones that stood out were like we did about the US wine Roads Less Traveled, which included things like Idaho and places like that that you just wouldn’t expect to read about in the context of wine tourism. So I think that’s really a rewarding thing to read about as well, because it’s something completely new.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:58 Terrific. Were there any mishaps or serendipitous moments that happened while they were writing?

Amy Wislocki 00:28:05 There may have been, I don’t know. We kind of commissioned the pieces and then they sent us the copy. So there may have been. But I mean, we did want to include Lebanon in there. And at the time it was just the political situation was so bad that the book company decided that it was probably the wrong time to be like suggesting that people visit Lebanon. So that didn’t make it into the book, which is a shame. But, you know, it’s obviously still ongoing. And interestingly, we had a similar dilemma at the magazine because we had an article on Lebanon, a wine article, and it was just as it was all kicking off really badly that we were due to run this article. And we did have a conversation internally about should we still run this article. And we decided that we should because they’re still making their wine there  and it’s not really fair to punish them for what’s happening in their country that’s out of their control. And we decided that, in the end, it would be more of a support to include the article. But in a travel book, it’s different because you’rekind of suggesting people go there on holiday and that’s just not really likely to happen. I would say that’s one thing that didn’t quite work out.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:12 Yes. Good point. So the book opens with France, very traditionally, but as you said, you’ve got emerging regions like Idaho and Colorado and North Carolina. No South Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina. You included it despite the fact it has no vineyards. So why did you think that warranted a section in a travel book?

Amy Wislocki 00:29:33 It’s funny because when someone pitches you an article on something like that, obviously your instinct is to think, why would we have an article on Charleston in the magazine? But, you know, if they make a good case for it, at the end of the day, wine lovers visit all parts of the world. They’re not only visiting wine regions. And so wine lovers, they want information on how to get the most out of place wine wise, you know. So that’s why we published quite a few city guides as well. And I think there are 2 or 3 in the book. City guides. You still want to know where are the really exciting wine bars. Where are the restaurants with the best wine lists et cetera, etcetera. Has it got a very vibrant budding wine scene? I mean, ideally, obviously it’s nice to go to a city that’s within striking distance of vineyards so you can mix it up. It is also useful to know just straight, where do I go to drink wine in Charleston? Where do I go to drink wine in Madrid or wherever? It’s useful information.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:28 And for Canadian listeners, you also include Vancouver Island.

Amy Wislocki 00:30:33 I’ve never been, but it looks so stunning. I remember particularly I think we talked about one restaurant. What was it called.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:39 Oh, Tofino?

Amy Wislocki 00:30:41 I think it was called Alphina anyway. The view just looked incredible. I’d love to go.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:47 One day people are going to have to get the book to know which one that was. That’s great.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:58 Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Amy. Here are my takeaways. Number one, why does wine taste different when you’ve stood in the vineyard where it was actually made? As Amy observes, anyone who’s visited a vineyard will understand there’s no substitute. You’ll have a different relationship with that wine for the rest of your life. The lucky thing is that wine growing areas are most often in beautiful regions of the world, so you can see what the soil is like and the climate. And it might be very close to an ocean or with cooling breezes or a stand of forest. So that side of it will really give you a better understanding of why the wine tastes like it does. You can also see the age of the vines, and then you meet the people behind the wine. It could be a small, family owned winery. Hearing the stories associated with the wine and making it, drinking the wine with food in that place and that environment, it’s irreplaceable.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:53 Number two, what’s the one myth about wine travel that Amy wants this book to dispel? Amy says the main thing she wants to dispel is that wine travel has to be an elitist thing, and she assumes that because wine in general has elitist kinds of associations. Thereby, by extension, wine travel gets that, too. She believes that you don’t have to have a lot of money or drink the world’s finest wines to enjoy wine travel. It’s becoming more accessible to everyone. And there are so many more regions and countries now that offer really terrific experiences. And you don’t have to pay top dollar.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:36 Number three, with Gen Z drinking less wine, how does a 50 year old wine magazine stay relevant without alienating long time readers? Amy explains that it’s many things. Recognizing moderation as a trend. It’s a tricky one because you don’t want to be preaching to people. People thinking, I’m buying a wine magazine because I love wine. I don’t want to be made to feel guilty for drinking it. But it’s not about that, she says. It’s about recognizing trends among wine lovers. People are trying new things. Obviously, there are some things that Gen Z will want to read about that might not be of interest to them like natural wines, but it’s all about balance in wine and in wine writing. The magazine tries to provide something for everyone who loves wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:10 In the show notes, you’ll find the full transcript of my conversation with Amy, links to the Decanter website as well as the book. The book is also available at all online bookstores like Amazon, Chapters Indigo, Barnes and Noble, etcetera. I’ve also linked to the video versions of our conversation on Facebook and YouTube live, as well as to where you can order my book online no matter where you live. If you missed episode 41, go back and take a listen. I chat about traveling the wine world with Food Network star Kevin Brauch. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Kevin Brauch 00:34:01 There is a lack of bravery around wine for people that don’t know about wine. Just remember in the room it was like, what did this taste like? And people are afraid to say cotton candy. But we know that that’s one of the culinary descriptors or candy in and of itself. Earth, wet leaves. We know all of these things. People are afraid to say to them for the first time. And yet, once you do, you’re so empowered. The wine tastes to you like the wine taste to you. I can read the label.  I can read what Robert Parker thinks of this wine. I can read what Billy Munnelly, who I adore and love, thinks of this wine. But at the end of the day, I’m only left with me. It’s daunting. Nobody says that with beer. Guys don’t drink beer [and say] I get a little bit of  the hops from the seashore by Seattle and, the nose of dog hair.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:05 You won’t want to miss next week when we continue our chat with Amy. If you liked this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell a friend about the podcast this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in learning more about great places to travel. As a wine lover, it’s easy to find the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. Just tell them to search for Natalie MacLean Wine on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favourite podcast app, or they can listen to the show on my website at nataliemaclean.com/podcast. Email me if you have a sip, tip, question, or if you’d like to win one of the copies of the many books I have to give away.  Think about your summer reading or you can be a cheapskate and give one of them as a gift.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:52  Just kidding, you’re not a cheapskate. I’d also love to hear your thoughts on this episode, or if you’ve read my book or are listening to it. Email me at nataliemaclean.com. In the show notes, you’ll find a link to take a free online food and wine pairing class with me, called The Five Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever at nataliemaclean.com. That’s all in the show notes at nataliemaclean.com/344. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week, perhaps a wine you discovered on your travels.  You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at nataliemaclean.com. Meet me here next week. Cheers!

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