The Smart Traveller’s Wine Guide to Switzerland with Simon Hardy

Natalie MacLean
Dec3rd

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Introduction

Why You Can’t Buy Switzerland’s Exceptional Wines Abroad? Why does Switzerland grow so many grape varieties, and which ones are the key players that define the country’s wine regions? What makes high-altitude wine regions uniquely capable of producing wines that balance great concentration without being too heavy?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with Simon Hardy, author of The Smart Traveller’s Wine Guide to Switzerland.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

Giveaway

Two of you are going to win a copy of Simon Hardy’s terrific new book, The Smart Traveller’s Wine Guide to Switzerland.

 

How to Win

To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast.

It takes less than 30 seconds: On your phone, scroll to the bottom here, where the reviews are, and click on “Tap to Rate.”

After that, scroll down a tiny bit more and click on “Write a Review.” That’s it!

I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me.

Good luck!

 

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Join the live-stream video of this conversation on Wednesday at 7 pm eastern on Instagram Live Video, Facebook Live Video or YouTube Live Video.

I’ll be jumping into the comments as we watch it together so that I can answer your questions in real-time.

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Highlights

  • How did a teenage exchange trip to a small Burgundy wine family spark Simon’s lifelong fascination with wine?
  • What did he discover about everyday French wine culture while living with a Burgundian family?
  • How did a simple holiday job in London unexpectedly expand Simon’s exposure to the world of wine?
  • What impact did nearly two decades in Switzerland have on Simon’s understanding of vineyards, terroir, and regional identity?
  • How did a 30-page free e-book on Swiss wine evolve into a major publishing project?
  • What makes The Smart Traveller’s Wine Guide to Switzerland different?
  • Why is Switzerland’s wine industry so small and so little Swiss wine found abroad?
  • How do Switzerland’s six wine regions differ in grapes, climate, language, and vineyard culture?
  • Why does the country grow more Pinot Noir than Chile, yet remain almost invisible in global wine conversations?
  • What makes Chasselas the quiet backbone of Swiss white wine?
  • How do classic Swiss foods showcase the subtlety of Chasselas?
  • What does extreme altitude viticulture reveal about the character of Switzerland’s mountain wines?

 

Key Takeaways

  • Why is Swiss wine such a rarity worldwide even though it’s highly regarded?
    • As Simon explains, Switzerland… is a small country, but when it comes to the wine sector, virtually everything is relatively small-scale. So in terms of producers of in excess of a million bottles, there are very few of them. The majority are small family-run businesses producing somewhere between 50 to 70,000 bottles a year. It’s very rare that a single producer will have a single grape planted and be a specialist and expert in that grape. they would have at least 6 to 10 grape varieties planted, if not even more, and be very proud of the fact that they have this diversity in their vineyards. Each wine is a relatively small quantity and most of it stays in the country. It’s less than 2% that gets exported.
  • Why does Switzerland grow so many grape varieties, and which ones are the key players that define the country’s wine regions?
    • So other than Chasselas, there’s Pinot Noir, which is actually the most planted grape in Switzerland. There’s more Pinot Noir produced in Switzerland than in Chile. Gamay, and Merlot. Those are the big four in about two-thirds of the vineyards. you’ve got an incredibly long list of those 253. lots of very small plantings of… largely insignificant varieties, often experimental. The others I went for were those where they play a significant role within a given region.
  • What makes high-altitude wine regions uniquely capable of producing wines that balance great concentration without being too heavy?
    • I didn’t do a word count in the book, but I think the terminology ‘alpine freshness’ probably gets repeated a few times. This diurnal variation is absolutely critical. You get more than adequate sunlight and sun hours during the day in summer for full ripening, not an issue. But you get these plunging temperatures at night, which helps to maintain the acidity levels. So you get the perfect combination of fresh acidity and phenomenal ripeness. Put the two together, that is probably if there’s any calling card. And it’s not just Swiss wine. It’s the same story in Valtellina, in Aosta Valley in Italy, in Alto Adige, in Savoie. The effect of being in these mountainous areas, where you can plant at altitude but where you have this big drop off in temperature at nighttime.

 

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The best description I found of Chasselas was by a Swiss wine writer who described it as the Pinot Noir of white wines – delicate, lace, elegant, fine. - Simon Hardy Simon Hardy Click to tweet

 

About Simon Hardy

Simon Hardy brings a rare blend of multinational brand marketing and entrepreneurial flair in the world of wine.

Over 25 years at Nestlé, he held marketing and strategy roles in the UK, USA, and at the HQ in Switzerland. In 2010, Simon earned the WSET Diploma in Wines & Spirits and founded Fitting Wines, a Swiss-based consultancy, offering a personal wine shopper service for time-poor expats.

Back in London since 2019, Simon champions Swiss wine in the UK, organising Swiss Wine Week London for Swiss Wine Promotion. He is also the co-founder of Alpina Vina, a cross-border guide to Alpine wine regions, including documentary films he writes and presents.

Simon also wrote The Smart Traveller’s Wine Guide to Switzerland, which has just been published by the Académie du Vin Library with Club Oenologique. He is also a Regional Ambassador for Switzerland at The Old Vine Conference and a judge for the International Wine Challenge since 2018.

 

Resources

 

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Thirsty for more?

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  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on Amazon.ca, Amazon.com and other country-specific Amazon sites; iTunes.ca, iTunes.com and other country-specific iTunes sites; Audible.ca and Audible.com.

 

Transcript

Natalie MacLean 00:00:00 Why can’t you buy Switzerland’s exceptional wines abroad? Why does Switzerland grow so many grape varieties? And which ones are the key players that define the country’s wine regions? And what makes high altitude wine regions uniquely capable of producing wines that balance great concentration without being too heavy? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions at our chat with Simon Hardy, author of The Smart Traveler’s Wine Guide to Switzerland. By the end of our conversation, you’ll also discover how a teenage exchange trip with a family owning a small Burgundian winery sparked Simon’s lifelong fascination with wine, the impact that nearly two decades in Switzerland had on Simon’s understanding of the vineyards terroir and regional identity. How a free e-book on Swiss wine evolved into a major publishing project. What makes the Smart Traveler’s Wine Guide to Switzerland, different from other books about Swiss wine or traveling to that region. How Switzerland’s six wine regions differ in grapes, climate, language and vineyard culture. What makes Chazal as the quiet backbone of Swiss white wine, and how classic Swiss foods showcase the subtlety of Casillas?

Natalie MacLean 00:01:25 Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast.

Natalie MacLean 00:01:43 I’m your host, Natalie MacLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:07 Welcome to episode 366. So what’s new in the wine world this week? Well, across Canada, drinkers are doubling down on local. That’s not exactly news, but they are also not trading down on quality. Recent retail data shows Canadian wine sales are holding at nearly $7.8 billion overall, even as wine consumption slips at about 5%, meaning people are buying fewer bottles but spending more per pick with a tilt toward premium and local labels. According to Statistics Canada figures in early November, at the same time, the low and no alcohol wave is only getting taller. Global non-alcoholic drinks are now a $1.4 trillion market, and low alcohol is growing at roughly 6% a year, driven largely by Gen Z and millennials.

Natalie MacLean 00:03:00 Canned wine is also very much part of that story, projected to surge to about 4.6 billion globally by 2034 as people look for single serve portable formats and fun flavors like rosé, Spritzer and Bellini’s. For your calendar, the Big Grape Day this week is International Cabernet Franc Day, and it’s tomorrow, Thursday, December 4th. The parent grape of Cabernet Sauvignon along with Sauvignon Blanc. Keep an eye out for the hashtag Cab Franc Day. Influencers are moving away from smooth and rich descriptors and finally embracing vegetal and herbaceous as positive traits, with creative posts comparing green bell pepper notes to high end perfume. Now that’s interesting. Never heard of a perfume described like that. Anywho, it’s a perfect excuse to line up Ontario and the Loire Valley examples Side by side to see which cab Frank team you’re on. I am unabashedly Canadian. Then December 5th is Repeal Day, marking the end of prohibition in 1933. Skip the bathtub gin and throw a speakeasy dinner party with classic cocktails like the Scoff Law or French 75. My favorite toast from that time.

Natalie MacLean 00:04:17 Here’s to prohibition. The devil take it. They’ve stolen our wine, so now we make it. December 5th is also National Comfort Food Day, so don’t be afraid to pair that cab, Frank, with a massive bowl of mac and cheese. You could also pair the wine, perhaps. Not sure about this, but for food days like Green Bean Casserole day on December 3rd, cookie Day, December 4th, Comfort Food Day on the fifth, and Gazpacho Day on the sixth, meaning you have license to pour Cab Franc with everything from classic roast beef and beans to a plate of chocolate, biscuits, or even a wildly off season chilled tomato soup. Definitely stretching the season there. The association that represents the gazpacho producers. Anyway, I don’t endorse all of these pairings. Maybe the roast beef and beans in marketing moves this week. Holiday campaigns are in full swing, and the brands are getting extra playful with packaging. In North America and Europe, cat shaped wine bottles have gone viral on Instagram and TikTok as decor objects first and drinks second, with recent lifestyle coverage noting that people are racing to buy them as vases and stocking stuffers for feline obsessed friends.

Natalie MacLean 00:05:34 That lines up with the trend toward whimsical gift packaging and other object plus wine storytelling outperforming traditional bottle shots in December. If you scroll in your feed this week, you’ll also see wine advent calendars unboxed at speed from winery made versions to big retail picks, turning the simple act of opening a tiny door into 24 days of user generated content that’s mind numbing, anyway, sourpuss, that neon bright liqueur that was a staple of many Canadian youths, is moving its production from Minnesota back to Quebec. It’s a brilliant PR maneuver by the brand to capitalize on the current Made in Canada sentiment, turning a logistical manufacturing shift into a patriotic victory lap. Meow. Meanwhile, the Lcbo is not disclosing what is in its massive $79 million stockpile of American alcohol since it was removed from shelves last February, leading to speculation on social media that the provincial government is sitting on a strategic reserve of Kentucky bourbon, like its gold bullion. And finally in the category of first world problem of the highest order. The New York Times reported on a panic in Vancouver fine dining restaurants this week, where a lack of specific French wines like Muscadet is threatening the integrity of scallop crudo courses.

Natalie MacLean 00:07:07 It’s a reminder that while the world burns, the pairing menus go on. If you have some wine, news or a quirky story you think I should share on the podcast. Email me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean or on Instagram. I’m at Natalie MacLean Wine, where I share more wine picks and wine mistakes and there are lots of them. This week on CTV’s Cp24 Breakfast Show, we chatted about holiday entertaining. Whether you’re hosting an intimate dinner party or an informal potluck, choosing the right wines can elevate your evening. The holiday season is my Super Bowl of wine because everyone gathers around, I provide running commentary that no one asks for, but they tolerate because I brought five bottles of wine. So let’s start with something bubbly.

We’re kicking things off with the classic champagne that’s been toasting celebrations since 1743. Moët & Chandon. This champagne was once reserved for royalty, and it still tastes regal. Today, it’s holiday sparkle in your glass. This sparkling wine is all about elegance and celebration, and you’ll find delicate notes of white stone fruit like peach and nectarine.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:17 Hints of freshly baked bread and a lovely citrus brightness that dances on your palate with those persistent fine bubbles. Before we move on to the next wine, let’s play a quick game. True or false? Champagne bubbles rise faster in a tall flute than a wine glass. I’m talking about the speed of the bubbles. It is true. The flute concentrates the stream of bubbles to travel with more energy. They would, of course, get to the top sooner in a broader cup glass, but I’m talking about how fast they travel, not when they arrive. They’re confusing, I know. Math was not my major anyway. Drop chemistry to these kinds of glasses. Keep wine fresher for longer. But that said, I do prefer a white wine glass for bubbles, as I still love to swirl it and smell it like I do wine. I know this makes me look like I’m trying too hard at parties, but I’ve made peace with that because I’m also the gal who brings her own glassware. So we’re well past subtle at this point.

Natalie MacLean 00:09:16 I’d pair this champagne with chilled oysters on the half shell nestled in crushed ice there, briny lacquer glistening with a squeeze of fresh lemon that mingles with the ocean’s essence. Maybe try parmesan shards broken into craggy pits, their crystalline texture providing a satisfying crunch and a deep, nutty, umami flavour that amplifies the champagne’s complexity. Or there’s salted caramel truffles with their smooth, glossy exteriors giving way to molten centres that balance the sweet and savoury in perfect harmony with the wine’s fruit and acidity. I know every single pairing sounds like something I’d attempt to make and then order takeout halfway through, but that’s the beauty of these suggestions. They’re aspirational. They’re like vision boards, but edible.

Next up, we have Cloudy Bay Sauvignon blanc that put New Zealand on the wine map 40 years ago and brought worldwide attention to the country’s wines. It’s that good and remains the gold standard for fresh Sauvignon blanc. Today, this wine is so famous. In fact, its Instagram account has better engagement than mine. Hashtag jelly. It’s bursting with aromas of ripe honeydew melon, passionfruit and lemongrass, which makes it not only a great gift wine, but also a wonderful match for turkey and stuffing.

Natalie MacLean 00:10:33 Quick multiple choice. What gives Sauvignon Blanc its signature herbal aroma? Is it A oak barrels? B flavour compounds in the grape skins? Or C New Zealand magic? The answer is B, though if you said C, I respect your optimism. Natural flavour compounds in the grape skins give that variety those fresh herbal notes. And now something for red wine lovers.

Let me introduce you to Tommasi Ripasso from Valpolicella, Italy. This wine uses a fascinating technique called ripasso, where the wine is repassed over the dried grape skins. It’s like giving the wine a second education, a master’s degree, adding richness and complexity. This wine is a beautiful deep ruby colour with aromas of black cherry, dried fig, and hints of dark chocolate and espresso. On the palate, it’s velvety and smooth, with soft tannins and a long warming finish perfect for holiday evenings. True or false? Ripasso was originally invented to avoid wasting the leftover grape skins for making Amarone, another robust, terrific Italian wine. It’s true. Italians are masters of zero waste in the cellar.

Natalie MacLean 00:11:47 They were upcycling before it was cool.

And our final wine is a Canadian treasure. Inniskillin Reserve Cabernet Franc from Niagara. Started in 1975, Inniskillin is Canada’s first estate winery. Awarded a licence after prohibition, it put Canadian wine on the world stage when they won the Grand Prix Donor at Wine Expo in 1991 for their ice wine. This Reserve Cab Franc is crafted in small batches, with grapes that are hand-selected by the winemaker to create exceptional, elegant and refined wines. This wine offers beautiful aromatics of red raspberry, violet, plum and floral notes that complement the rich flavours of spice and black cherry on the finish. It’s smooth and approachable. It really shows how we can make such great Cabernet Franc, especially in the cool climate of Niagara. And our final game moment. What is Cabernet Franc best known for contributing to Bordeaux blends? A colour, B freshness and aromatic lift, C tannins that are stronger than my willpower at the dessert table. The answer is B. Cab Franc adds brightness and keeps big blends from feeling too heavy.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:02 And finally, remember that the perfect bottle is more than a drink. It’s a gesture, a memory, and often the start of a great conversation on upcoming TV shows such as CTV or morning, CTV’s Cp24 Breakfast Show, CHCH Morning Live and CTV’s social. We’ll be chatting about terrific wines and spirits for holiday celebrations and gift giving. We’re already planning driest January with low and no alcohol drinks, as well as those low in calories or sugar, plus romantic wines and spirits for Valentine’s Day. Please let me know if you’d like to see your brand featured on these TV segments or future ones. Or if you would like to advertise with us through our podcast, newsletter, website, social media or mobile apps. If you represent a winery, distillery, brewery or an agency or regional council representing wines, spirits, cocktails, cheese or other food brands, please email me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean. Back to today’s episode. Two of you will win a copy of Simon Hardy’s Smart Traveler’s Wine Guide to Switzerland. I still have two copies of Chas McCoy’s pairings for the People and of Elva Ramirez.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:11 Terrific book sparkling with ideas for sparkling cocktails. Great timing for the holidays. If you’d like to win a copy of any of these books, please email me and let me know. You’d like to win. It doesn’t matter where you live, I’ll choose six winners randomly from those who contact me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com. Keep them for yourself or give them as gifts. In other bookish news, if you’re reading the paperback or e-book or listening to the audiobook of my memoir wine, which on fire rising from the Ashes of Divorce, defamation and Drinking Too Much, a national bestseller in one of Amazon’s Best Books of the year. I’d love to hear from you at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com. I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers worldwide at Natalie MacLean. Three. Six six. Okay, on with the show. Simon Hardy brings a rare blend of multinational brand marketing of expertise and entrepreneurial flair to the world of wine over a 25 year career with Nestle. He held senior marketing and strategy roles in the UK, the United States and at the company’s global headquarters in Switzerland.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:23 In 2010, he earned the W Sette Diploma in Wines and Spirits and founded Fitting Wines, a Swiss based consultancy offering a bespoke wine shopping service for time pressed expatriates. Since returning to London in 2019, he has championed Swiss wine in the UK. He is also the co-founder of Alpina Vena, a cross-border guide to alpine wine regions featuring documentary films that he writes and presents. Simon is the author of The Smart Traveler’s Wine Guide to Switzerland, published by Academy Devon Library in partnership with Club Oenology. He also serves as the Regional Ambassador for Switzerland at the Old Vine Conference, and has been a judge for the International Wine Challenge since 2018, and he joins us now from his home in London. We’re so glad to have you here, Simon. Welcome.

Simon Hardy 00:16:19 Thank you. Natalie. It’s a real privilege.

Natalie MacLean 00:16:21 All right. Cheers. So before we dive into your wine career, tell us about when you were studying French at school. What did you ask your teacher to help you with?

Simon Hardy 00:16:31 Having discovered that French was a subject that I seemed to be better at than most other subjects, I was keen to, as it were, get on the ground and learn in the country.

Simon Hardy 00:16:41 But I had no connections there. So I turned to him and said, is there anybody you could introduce me to? And he thought, a bit of a rabbit out of a hat. It turned out to be a wine growing family in Burgundy. Need I say more? So, I mean, I should say I was 14 fifth turning 15 at the time. My wine experience, my wine knowledge. I didn’t really grow up in a wine drinking family by any measure. So this was a real a real eye opener. And I should point out, I mean, everyone’s thinking, wow, Burgundy, what a lucky guy. This was a very small family grower selling within the region, no national distribution and certainly no international. And I suspect that most of the big critics have never heard the name.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:25 So okay, so we’ll pass on that. But were you served wine at dinner? Like the way they supposedly do the French.

Simon Hardy 00:17:32 Even at lunchtime. So there was always wine on the table. But even the winemaker, Bernard, he mixed it.

Simon Hardy 00:17:37 He cut it with lemonade. I was blown away.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:40 Well, that just seems like an abomination. Lemonade in Burgundy.

Simon Hardy 00:17:44 It really does. Now, without wanting to be too precise on my age. This was back in the 1970s, and I think it was kind of before Burgundy maybe had really found it sold and really found like the place that it now occupies in the world.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:59 Okay, so your first holiday job after leaving school was in a London department store, but again, you managed to rope it into wine somehow. What happened there?

Simon Hardy 00:18:10 Yeah. I mean, I’d finished school and it was a chance to earn some money. All the department stores recruit extra staff over the Christmas New Year shopping period. They said, yep, turn up on such and such a day. You had no idea you could have been gentleman’s underwear for all I know. But they this particular store had a very well known wines and spirits department and that’s where I headed. There must have been oh, 7 or 8 other staff in the department.

Simon Hardy 00:18:36 It was a very, very busy department. That’s how I really got exposed to many, many, many more things than I ever knew in the world of wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:45 Oh that’s great. It just seems like Destiny was steering you constantly toward wine. And now your final posting with Nestlé was at the head office in the Lake Geneva region of Switzerland. Gorgeous. And your daily commute? What did you pass by as you drove?

Simon Hardy 00:19:01 So the motorway cut through the vineyards of Lavo, which are the steep, sloping vineyards that run down to the shores of Lake Geneva. I wouldn’t say that it was getting me thirsty because I was kind of focused on the day job, but it’s pretty unbeatable. I mean, quite apart from the spectacular views over the lake and the Alps in the distance, but to be surrounded by these amazing vineyards clinging to these astonishingly steep slopes is quite unique, I’d say for a commute.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:28 That sounds beautiful. What drew you to the story in the first place? This book had an earlier iteration.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:35 Tell us about that.

Simon Hardy 00:19:36 So you mentioned my business in Switzerland fitting wines. And while I was selecting wines of the world for my clients, whatever suited their particular taste profile, which is how I approached each individual client, they were not necessarily looking for the wines of Switzerland, but I was quite ready to not just recommend, but actually select some of the local wines in these bundles of wines that I would pull together. And to be able to do that with a degree of confidence and for the reputation of my business, I wanted to make sure that I was making good selections. So I was kind of on an accelerated, steep learning curve to actually understand better the wines of Switzerland. Also, to kind of anchor that knowledge and to help people dip in at their own pace and in their own time. I wrote a rather simple, I think, 30 page book for free. I mean, it’s you can. I think you may still find it on my website. I’m not sure. I’ve updated my website recently, but it was on my website for about ten years.

Simon Hardy 00:20:34 Anybody could access it. Very straightforward, but one person that did track it down or find it on my website was in fact one of the editors at Academy Driven Library.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:46 And the rest is history.

Simon Hardy 00:20:48 The rest is history, indeed.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:49 So hotel is how the Smart Travelers Wine Guide to Switzerland is, unlike other books about Swiss wine.

Simon Hardy 00:20:56 First of all, I should say it’s part of a series. There’s six titles now. The first two were Bordeaux. There’s Napa Valley, Tuscany and Switzerland. Came out with Rhone Valley this year, and they all follow a similar structure. But as you might have already gleaned from those titles, they cover regions. So one of the things that I was helping the publisher to understand from the very get go is this is not a region, this is a country. The vineyards are equivalent in size to the region of Alsace in France, but nevertheless, there are still big differences once you get into the different areas of Switzerland. That was one message to get across. And when you say compared with other books on Switzerland, particularly Swiss wine, I think there may be 3 or 4.

Simon Hardy 00:21:36 I mean, in the English language there’s only one one and a half, actually two. To be fair to that, are still in print that I would happily recommend, but one is kind of very anecdotal. Written by a fabulous journalist and the other, sadly, is written by somebody who passed away prematurely, which was a very good profile of of several of the top producers. It took a very kind of producer driven approach, but there’s very little on Switzerland. So in a way it was how to bring the message of Switzerland to a wine curious audience and I should say, the publisher’s insight just to position this book is even though it’s a wine guide, it’s actually a travel guide. So they were targeting the travel section of bookstores because they’re feeling was those that do enjoy wine and like to travel to places where there’s a chance to discover and enjoy good wine is there is, or there was nothing in the travel section to help them. So the book may end up in the wine section, but primarily it should actually appear in the travel section.

Simon Hardy 00:22:37 As a result, the format of each of the books is very similar, I should say. First of all, it’s pocket size. You can see how big it is. I mean, that’s.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:43 Right, it’s okay. And for those who are just listening, we’ll put a link to it in the show notes.

Simon Hardy 00:22:48 That’s really useful. And it’s 200 pages long. So it’s pocket size paperback, 200 pages long. So how do you condense a country into.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:59 Even a small country.

Simon Hardy 00:23:01 Bearing in mind the book is in two parts. The first half of the book is kind of what you’d expect in a wine primer. The history of the geography, the regions that produces the wines, the grape varieties. The second half of the book, though, and it’s pretty even 50 over 50 split. The second half of the book is what you’d expect in a travel guide. Where to go, where to stay. Where to eat. Where to buy. Where to shop. Where to enjoy a glass.

Simon Hardy 00:23:24 So a kind of a. I don’t want to compare with other travel guides, but a classic kind of little hundred word paragraph listings on places that my co-author, Mark and I were happy to recommend.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:38 Awesome. That’s great. What was the most surprising thing that you discovered while researching this book or writing it?

Simon Hardy 00:23:45 Oh gosh.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:46 Or something that might surprise us. Maybe you weren’t surprised, but.

Simon Hardy 00:23:49 It reinforces something that I knew in Switzerland is okay. It’s a small country, but when it comes to the wine sector, virtually everything is relatively small scale. So in terms of producers of volumes in excess of a million bottles, one hand, possibly a one and a half hands, there very few of them, the majority of producers, they are small, family run businesses producing somewhere between 50 to 70,000 bottles a year. And as we’ll probably come on to. There’s a wide variety of grape varieties planted. It’s very rare that a single producer will have a single grape planted and be a specialist and expert in that grape.

Simon Hardy 00:24:31 Invariably they would have, I would say, at least 6 to 10 grape varieties planted. Remember, 50 to 70,000 bottles, if not even more. And be very proud of the fact that they have this diversity in their vineyards. But it does mean that each wine, each cuvée is a relatively small quantity. One of the results of that is and you all have people following the show and say, I never even knew Switzerland made wine. I didn’t know there were vineyards in Switzerland. And then of course, the second big is and most of it stays in the country. That’s why we don’t see much of it. I suspect there’s not much in Canada. There’s a little bit more in us. There’s a little bit in the UK, but it’s always a little bit. It’s less than 2%, but it’s exported. And the book really brings this home.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:19 Absolutely. So maybe give us sort of a big picture. I mean, it’s a little country. How much does it produce overall? Like it’s probably less than 1% of the world’s wine production, I’m assuming.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:30 Like it’s tiny. Tiny.

Simon Hardy 00:25:31 If you were to take the heavy hitters, let’s take Italy. France. They’re kind of plus -40,000 hectoliters. I’m sorry to kind of talk in liters, because a bottle equivalent is tricky here, but Switzerland. If France and Italy are either side of 40. Switzerland is one.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:48 So that really puts it on the scale.

Simon Hardy 00:25:50 Yeah. It’s really it’s 100,000,000l is what they produce on average.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:55 Painters a picture, a mental map for Europe. Where who borders Switzerland? Where is it?

Simon Hardy 00:26:00 I want to I should just put that 100,000,000l in context. Switzerland drinks 250,000,000l.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:05 Oh, so they drink almost everything they make. And more.

Simon Hardy 00:26:08 This is the catch. Yeah. They have to import more than they produce. Think of the national flag of Switzerland. It’s the white cross on the red background. It is at the crossroads, at least at the crossroads of Western Europe. So you are surrounded to the west. You have France, to the north you have Germany, to the east you have Austria, and to the south you have Italy.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:25 Perfect.

Simon Hardy 00:26:26 And they are all great wine producing countries. So the geography, the location of Switzerland, kind of. You would expect it to be a wine producing country. Why wouldn’t it be right?

Natalie MacLean 00:26:37 Absolutely. The book is co-authored with Mark Székely. How did you divide the work between the two of you? Were you mostly wine and he was travel, or how did you manage?

Simon Hardy 00:26:48 So I was living in Switzerland for the best part of 16 years, and I should say Mark is a Kiwi. He’s from New Zealand, so imagine that it’s taken a Kiwi and a Brit to write a book on Switzerland, wine and travel. But Mark has been living in Switzerland now for, I think, seven nudging eight years, and we met very early on when he arrived. He’s kind of a journalist, food and wine communicator by background, and he was kind of keen just to start meeting some English speaking wine experts or wine specialists in Switzerland. There’s not many of us, at least not native English, as obviously English is comfortably spoken by so many people in Switzerland.

Simon Hardy 00:27:25 But when I put the idea to him, I said, look, Mark, here’s the concept of the book. I don’t think I can write this on my own. Not just because I’m now living outside Switzerland. I’ve been away from Switzerland for a bit over five years, but you’re on the ground and I know that, you know, he does a lot of wine tours in one particular region around Lake Geneva, but he has good contacts, good connections, particularly within the tourism sector. And I just figured, look, he can fill in the blanks. And as we got into it more and more, I realized how many blanks there were on my side that I really needed his help to fill. So largely, you know, if I wrote the majority of the front end of the book about everything to do with wine to Mark, he wrote largely the bulk of the second half of the book, which was everything about where to go, where to stay, where to eat.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:11 Okay, great.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:12 Now, in the foreword, Doctor Jose Williams. Okay.

Simon Hardy 00:28:18 Who is Swiss, in fact sounds it.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:20 I often say I’m quoting him. I often say that Swiss wine does not exist, not because it isn’t real, but because it’s so diverse and defies easy definition, which you are getting at with how small the production is and how diverse it is. Can you give some concrete examples of how dramatically different the wines are from valley to valley within Switzerland? Oh.

Simon Hardy 00:28:45 Let me at least not do it at the valley level, at least at the regional level. In this little old country, there are six six wine regions. The largest, ironically, is called Valais, which does sound like valley. And if you’re there, you look to your right and there’s one steep side of mountain, and if you look to your left, there’s one steep side, a mountain. So you’re sitting in this, it’s actually the Rhone River valley base, and that flows into an air base and the Rhone own river valley that flows into Lake Geneva.

Simon Hardy 00:29:12 This is the largest region of the wine regions. It accounts for about a third of Swiss wine production. The next largest is around Lake Geneva, which is canton. It’s about Vaud and together they account for around 60% of Swiss wine production. So a lot of the Swiss story is there, particularly because in Valais you have a lot of native indigenous varieties that pretty much you don’t find very often outside the Valais region. So that’s its particular story. And we’ve come onto some of these grapes, I’m sure. Petite ravine Cornella probably never heard of them, but don’t worry if I get into them. Canton Vo is much more about the Shasta grape variety. It’s the one region where white wine production dominates all the other regions. They tend to be more red wine producing regions then as you go further north towards Neuchatel, it’s a Pinot noir region. Both red and very good rosé. Further north. Well further north. Then you get into the German speaking regions or cantons, which have been clustered together as this beautifully named region called Deutsche Schweitzer, German speaking Switzerland.

Simon Hardy 00:30:29 There, Pinot noir dominates when it comes to reds, and Muller tall dominates when it comes to whites. And then in Ticino, very different because you to get there. It’s the Italian speaking part of the country. You have to cross the Alps and when you get to the other side of the Alps, you think, wow, not only are they speaking Italian, but this feels much more Mediterranean. It’s warmer, it’s wetter, and lo and behold, it’s full of Merlot, red and white. Intriguing.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:00 That is incredible diversity. yeah. And you mentioned it’s Switzerland is home to 250 grape varieties. How did you decide which ones to spotlight? I guess obviously Charlotte is the big white flagship grape of the country, but I mean, how did you narrow it down? Did you decide there’s a big top ten?

Simon Hardy 00:31:24 Yeah, it’s a great kind of. There’s a big four. So other than Shasta, you’re right. There’s Pinot Noir, which is actually the most planted grape in Switzerland. There’s more Pinot noir planted in or produced in Switzerland than in Chile.

Simon Hardy 00:31:37 Who knew that, That’s beautiful.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:41 Yeah.

Simon Hardy 00:31:42 So Pinot noir, Gamay and Merlot. So those are the big four, and we’re kind of looking at about to around about two thirds of the, of the vineyards. So then you’ve got, you know, that’s just four. So you’ve got an incredibly long list of those, you know, you know, 253 I think is the number minus four. You’ve still got 249. So you can imagine lots of very small plantings of for the purposes of our conversation and without wanting to be rude. Largely insignificant varieties, but they are there for different reasons, often experimental. But the other varieties that I went for those where they have, they play a significant role within a given region. So we a grape in valley called Amin again, you would never have heard of. It produces very good off dry and sweet wines, a variety in the German speaking part. But I know we’re going to come on to court later. There’s. But that’s. And then you have some of the new creations that have come out of the Swiss agricultural laboratories like gamma Ray Golota and the list goes on.

Simon Hardy 00:32:52 So I tried to pepper the book with enough varieties that you have a reasonable chance of finding them, if not on a on a wine store shelf, at least on a on a restaurant wine list.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:06 Great. So let’s talk about the grape that accounts for one quarter of Swiss vineyards, yet is virtually unknown and unplanned. International. You say it’s you. Note that it’s called fendall and valet parlance in Geneva and guten del goot.

Simon Hardy 00:33:24 Adolf.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:25 Okay, yes, I’m murdering all of these pronunciations in German speaking region. So why do you think this chameleon grape hasn’t achieved global recognition despite the fact it’s so dominant in Switzerland?

Simon Hardy 00:33:36 I, I’m going to have to start my answer with an apology to your French listeners and viewers because I, my my pet theory is it’s a it’s a French conspiracy.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:48 Okay. Go on.

Simon Hardy 00:33:50 It’s kind of they and maybe it goes back to the Napoleonic era, but I suspect even even further back in history, it’s it’s like they didn’t allow the wine to be easily exported from Switzerland.

Simon Hardy 00:34:02 I think there’s there’s one region in France, Puy sur Loire, which is an appellation in its own right, where castella is a permitted variety. It’s the only one, largely France, planted as a table grape. And so one way of kind of, if you like, undermining a quality wine grapes reputation is by churning it out as a table grape. It’s kind of it’s not worthy of. Okay. Why else? I think there’s a particular. Maybe there’s some truth in the in the conspiracy story or not, but I think there’s something specific to the nature of the grape itself. When I’m when I’m judging in wine competitions, usually the preamble from the team running it is don’t ignore the shy wines that you know, the wallflowers, the ones that don’t arrest your senses, that don’t jump out of the glass. Shayla is one of those. It’s the best description I found of Shayla was by a by a Swiss wine writer, Chandra Court, who described it as the Pinot noir of white wines. And if you think about Pinot noir, it’s delicate, it’s lace, it’s elegant, it’s fine.

Simon Hardy 00:35:17 And Shayla is. It can be like that. It doesn’t jump out of the glass, but it has properties which are kind of unlike so many other white wines. It’s surprising it’s relatively low in acidity, but it has a phenomenal, as at least, you know, the finer versions of Shasta. Phenomenal longevity.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:37 Really. So what’s allowing it to age? Because acidity is usually the thing that allows white wines to age.

Simon Hardy 00:35:43 Exactly. So there’s some properties of this grape which are quite unusual. And let’s just say that in this case, the Swiss have mastered those properties for sure. The environment must come down to it. I mean, the the Shatila grape has been planted, at least in the Lavoe vineyards. For centuries, the vineyards were created back in the the 11th century by the monks. So, you know, in the same way that Burgundy, you know, thanks to the monks, has centuries of experience of working with Pinot noir. Let’s give credit to well, originally the the monks and now the, the, the secular winemakers, they get Shatila.

Simon Hardy 00:36:23 They understand it in a way that I don’t think anybody else does.

Natalie MacLean 00:36:28 So it’s just the way they’re farming it that gives it the longevity because it doesn’t have the acidity. So it’s just something we don’t know.

Simon Hardy 00:36:37 I mean, let’s be clear, as with a lot of wine, it’s made to be drunk. Most of it is made to be drunk young. Okay. When when you’re shopping for Shatila, and, you know, you can expect it’s a kind of a it’s an everyday kind of wine. It’s the wine that you drink. A is a easy aperitif. It’s a wine that is used at birthdays and anniversaries. It’s a wine that drunk at funerals, at celebrations. It’s just the ubiquitous white wine, particularly of of canton. But I’d say of of Switzerland. So it’s kind of it’s unpretentious in that way. And it has a price, you know, attached to it accordingly. But the finer examples, and particularly in this area overlooking Lake Geneva, there’s a it’s known as the Laveau region.

Simon Hardy 00:37:29 And there’s a particular Grand Cru appellation called desolation. Desolation, which produces just remarkable wines, in fact, is one of the wines I will be supping with you a little later.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:43 Desolate. I’m sorry. I’m a Grand Cru. What is that?

Simon Hardy 00:37:46 Doesn’t it? There’s a there’s I know, I know, it sounds like there’s all. But it’s there’s a lady.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:51 Oh, okay. Sounds very Canadian. I’m sorry, I’m sorry. Anyway, so what is its aromatics? What is its aromatic profile? Is it floral? Is it what is it?

Simon Hardy 00:38:03 If anything, it tends to be. When it’s young, it tends to be floral. But there’s a mineral. Mineral note. And I don’t know, I haven’t listened to you enough to know how you handle minerality. I know I think we came up in a recent.

Natalie MacLean 00:38:13 Often and confusingly.

Simon Hardy 00:38:15 You know, what do I say when I’m running tastings? You know. You know, you know, imagine a wet stone, you know, sniff it because it has an aroma, you know, liquid.

Simon Hardy 00:38:23 If you know it’s clean and you know it has a taste, but it’s it’s quite distinctive, but it’s wrapped. It’s wrapped in lots of other characteristics. But there is a mineral, there’s a mineral feature which comes from the, from the, the particularly the desolate site. It’s floral. It can be a bit nutty. And over time that nuttiness comes through more and remarkably with age. And now we’re talking, you know, 12, 15, 20 years were formed in the valley. It can even take on a honeyed character, which seems utterly absurd in a wine that’s been vilified. Dry.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:04 Right.

Simon Hardy 00:39:05 It just is what it is.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:07 Reminds me of the sort of freakish path that Semillon follows.

Simon Hardy 00:39:12 I’m with you.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:13 yeah. Okay. Are there classic wine pairings for this, or is it kind of like wide reaching? Because it’s a white.

Simon Hardy 00:39:20 To say other? Other than birthdays and anniversaries and funerals, but, the freshwater fish. I mean, there’s, there’s fish from the lake. The filet de peche is a is a classic.

Simon Hardy 00:39:32 It’s actually a very good pairing with the classic cheese dishes of, of Switzerland, which you might think but don’t. I need kind of something with a bit more acidity to kind of cut through the richness of the cheese. Yeah, fatness and the heaviness of the cheese. But it does work. One pairing I really like, and I believe there’s been quite some success in Japan, as with sushi and Japanese cuisine. And again, if you think about the nature of the food, it’s it’s delicate. The flavors are really refined. And you need a wine that is not going to dominate, but it’s going to complement. And Casilla seems to do that very well.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:09 I liked your description like lace, like even Casilla sounds like lace. it does a bit.

Simon Hardy 00:40:14 Yeah. You’re right.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:15 And how is, let’s just talk about the other three grapes. The red ones. How does the Gamay of Switzerland differ? Mainly from, say, the one we know in Beaujolais?

Simon Hardy 00:40:26 Yeah. I mean, I would say if there’s a characteristic and I probably focus more on the the Beaujolais village, you know, there’s this particular granite characteristic to the soils in the villages there which comes through in the minerality of the of, of, you know, whether it’s a Fleury or Saint-Omer or whatever it might be.

Simon Hardy 00:40:48 Whereas I think in, in Switzerland it’s very true to the varietal, you know. So you’re getting kind of, you know, it’s fruit forward. It’s kind of lighter in, in, in tannins, not as light as Pinot noir, but you don’t have this kind of mineral, characteristics. So I think it’s, it’s I don’t want to say a simpler expression, but I, I don’t think it’s it’s not trying to rival Beaujolais. Beaujolais. I one of the reasons Gamay is planted in the in the quantities it is. And maybe this does speak something to the quality of the Gamay is it ends up being blended with Pinot noir so you can find some very good single varietal Gamay. But the majority of it in, from what I can figure, is blended with Pinot Noir to produce a wine that goes under the name of Dolly. And it’s a very easygoing. Think of it as a kind of a bistros brasserie style. Red wine, very reliable. Pretty much can, you know. Consistent from year to year.

Simon Hardy 00:41:57 No great variation, good value and often a good earner for the wineries because they can they can ship it when it’s relatively young.

Natalie MacLean 00:42:05 Cash crop? Yeah. Sounds like they’re trying to stretch the batch with Pinot noir. but with Pinot, how is that different from, say, under the Pineau of Germany or the Burgundy?

Simon Hardy 00:42:17 Yeah. Gosh, I won’t claim to be a piano expert, and I certainly will not claim to be a Pinot Noir clone expert. But there are different clones planted in Switzerland. There are Burgundy clones. I’m not going to give you the numbers, but there are also Swiss clones and sometimes some vineyards. I know one producer in the east of Switzerland he has for single vineyard Pinos. Sometimes the vineyards are exclusively Swiss clones, some are exclusively Burgundy and some are a blend. I think one of the characteristics of Pinot noir, particularly from the east of Switzerland, which is one of my favorite Pinot regions in Switzerland, is they generally pick about two weeks later than Burgundy. And one of the reasons for that is it’s it’s it’s the warmest region of the German speaking cantons, and that’s partly driven by a wind that you might have heard of called the firn wind.

Simon Hardy 00:43:21 This is a warm autumn wind. So it has the benefit of reducing, you know, fungus and other disease in the vineyard, but it also keeps the vines, keeps the grapes ripening a bit longer. And so as a result, I think you get, gosh, even in relatively young expressions of Pinot noir, you get you get depth, you get richness, which sometimes you might expect to come from age, but that’s not necessarily the case.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:50 Oh, fascinating.

Simon Hardy 00:43:52 Is Switzerland Pinot noir from the chateau. If you skip over those mountains, you end up in, in. Well, first the Jura and then in Burgundy. So they’re probably closer in style to what you’d expect from Burgundy.

Natalie MacLean 00:44:08 Okay. And on average, though, Switzerland will be colder climate wise than Burgundy.

Simon Hardy 00:44:14 Yeah. yeah. Well.

Natalie MacLean 00:44:17 Or would it? Or would it be.

Simon Hardy 00:44:18 I yo is the answer so clearly colder winters. No question. It’s a, it’s a continental climate. Whereas Burgundy is at this rather interesting intersection of continental maritime.

Simon Hardy 00:44:32 And depending on the, the beer, sometimes it can be submitted to Mediterranean influence to Switzerland doesn’t have that because there’s a rather large mountain range in the way called the Alps, which means you’re decidedly continental, and the Jura keeps any influence of the maritime climate away so colder in the winter. But as I say, this warm autumn wind actually can elevate the temperatures and for longer during the, you know, the critical harvest time.

Natalie MacLean 00:45:01 That’s really interesting. So you mentioned the Alps. You write about the vineyards in. Why don’t you say it? Vipera Timur in.

Simon Hardy 00:45:10 Armenian. Yeah. So there’s a village called Visp and Tamina is like end of the line up in the mountains. So. Yeah. Okay. I mean, yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:45:19 Europe’s highest vineyard at 1150 meters or 37 seven, 3770ft where phylloxera couldn’t survive. What does wine from this extremely high altitude on undrafted vines taste like? And how would it differ from either wines at lower elevations or other mountainous wines. I mean, what’s going on there that makes the wine taste unique? Yeah, I.

Simon Hardy 00:45:47 I’m not sure I can give you a very satisfactory answer on this. I mean, I’ve done a little bit of homework in the past on, on, on grafted and grafted and for my, obviously, my wine diploma to know just a little bit about the phylloxera crisis. I do believe that part of the part of what the grape grower pays attention to when they’re grafting is the rootstock that they use. And that can have an influence on the, the finished wine from, from grafted vines. But the grafted I think it’s more just I’m not too sure that there’s a really a perceptible difference in the glass. I think it is more just this sensation that this is the way nature intended the vine to be. There has been no intervention in terms of its place as a plant.

Natalie MacLean 00:46:49 So when you say sensation, do you mean just that you’re reveling in that, or is there an actual textural mouthfeel or something that you’re getting?

Simon Hardy 00:46:56 No, because I think it’s I, I, I think it’s more I can’t explain the science of it.

Simon Hardy 00:47:02 That’s not my strength, but I. Whenever I have tasted undrafted, I’ve even had some from the other side of the Alps in the outer valley of Italy. I wasn’t thinking, oh wow, this is this is so different than what I’d expected. I it was just that satisfaction, that psychological pleasure of of. Yeah. This is this is untouched by man, as it were, in terms of the, the the root and the.

Natalie MacLean 00:47:34 Plant would be something to try the high altitude. Now, what I’ve heard from like high plantings in, say, Mendoza, Argentina, is that the sun is really intense. So there’s a lot of ripening of the grape skins. They’ve got the big diurnal, high, low temperature fluctuation between day and night. So it tends to create wines of great concentration, but they’re not heavy. Is that going on here as well?

Simon Hardy 00:47:57 Absolutely, yes. I didn’t do a word count in the book in the aim, but I think the terminology alpine freshness probably gets repeated a few times, so I like.

Simon Hardy 00:48:09 Yeah, absolutely. This diurnal variation is absolutely critical. So you get more than adequate sunlight and sun hours during the, the the during the the day in in summer for full ripening. Not an issue. But you get these plunging temperatures at night which which helps to retain the acidity, maintain the acidity levels. You just so you get the perfect combination of of just fresh acidity and phenomenal ripeness and put the two together. That is the probably if there’s any kind of calling card and it’s not just Swiss wine. You mentioned Alpino Vino, this kind of transnational guide that that I work on with another colleague. You know, it’s the same story in Valtellina, in Aosta Valley, in Italy, in Alto Adige, in Savoie. This, this the the. Yeah, the the effect of being in these mountainous areas where you can plant at altitude, but where you have this big drop off in temperature at nighttime.

Natalie MacLean 00:49:12 Yeah. Someone once compared it to like the vines or it’s like they’re getting an intense workout during the day.

Natalie MacLean 00:49:17 And, you know, like humans, all the muscles would break down. And then at night you get the muscle repair and whatever. So what ends up being is a very strong sort of complex. Not I’m not talking about heavy, full bodied wines, but just it’s like right down in repair and it’s more complex for that cycle going on between the technologies.

Simon Hardy 00:49:38 Yeah, I do too.

Natalie MacLean 00:49:39 Yeah. Well, there you have it. I hope.

Natalie MacLean 00:49:42 You.

Natalie MacLean 00:49:42 Enjoyed our chat with Simon. Here are my takeaways. Number one, why is Swiss wines such a rarity worldwide even though it’s highly regarded? In other words, why can’t we buy it here? Well, as Simon explains, Switzerland is a small country and the wine industry is also very small scale. Very few producers produce more than a million bottles. I mean, just a handful. He says most are small, family run businesses, producing between 50 and 70,000 bottles a year. Most of them don’t even focus on a single grape. They’ll have 6 to 10 varieties planted, and they’re proud of the fact that they’re all mixed in the vineyards.

Natalie MacLean 00:50:21 So each wine is very small quantity. Most of it stays in the country. Less than 2% gets exported. So we’re just going to have to go and visit them to taste it. Number two, why does Switzerland grow so many grape varieties and which one are the key players? Chocolates, of course, is the leading grape in the country a white wine? Then there’s Pinot Noir, which is the most planted grape in Switzerland. There’s more Pinot produced in Switzerland than Chile. I did not know that. Gamay and Merlot come in third and fourth, and those big four are two thirds of the vineyards. Then you’ve got an incredibly long list of 253 grapes. Or at least if you knock out those for 249. That’s a lot of small plantings, and much of it is experimental. And number three. What makes high altitude wine regions uniquely capable of producing wines of great balance and concentration without being too heavy? So Simon didn’t do a word count. But the term alpine freshness, he says, is mentioned several times throughout the book that diurnal variation day night change is critical.

Natalie MacLean 00:51:34 You get sunlight and sun hours during the day and summer for full ripening, but you also get the plunging temperatures at night, which helps maintain the acidity levels in the grapes. So you get that perfect combination of fresh acidity and phenomenal ripeness. Because remember, ripeness is in the skins, not just the grapes themselves, as they exchange acid for sugar, but all the precursors and flavor compounds. Those are in the skins and need that sun ripening. Put the two together and that’s the calling card of high altitude plantings. And it’s not just in Switzerland. It’s the same story in Valtellina, Aosta Valley, Italy, Alto Adige and Savoy. It’s the effect that these mountainous areas bring to the wines. So if you missed episode 280, go back and take a listen. I chat about the wines of Jura and the French Alps with wink launch from ski resorts to worldwide sensation. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Wink Lorch 00:52:38 Millions and millions of years ago. So you had the whole of that area of France was covered in the sea.

Wink Lorch 00:52:44 So that’s why we have calcium and why we have fossils.

Natalie MacLean 00:52:50 Which.

Natalie MacLean 00:52:50 Create the limestone.

Wink Lorch 00:52:52 Exactly. The Jura mountains emerged many millions of years ago. And then much later, the French Alps, which are a young mountain range. There was this up thrust and they arrived. And then there were other gentle mountains that form the hillsides of Burgundy that we know today. So we’ve suddenly got this sort of dip in the middle. And these two, the mirror images of Burgundy, of Jura. Over here. Burgundy over here.

Natalie MacLean 00:53:31 You won’t want to miss next week when we continue our chat with Simon. If you liked this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell a friend about the podcast this week, especially someone you know who be interested in learning more about the wines of Switzerland or planning a trip to the country. It’s easy to find the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. Just tell them to search for that title or my name Natalie MacLean Wine on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favorite podcast app, or they can listen to the show on my website at Natalie MacLean podcast.

Natalie MacLean 00:54:04 Email me if you have a question, or if you’d like to win one of six copies of the books I have to give away. I’d also love to hear your thoughts on this episode, or if you are reading or listening to my book. Email me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com. In the show notes, you’ll also find a link to take a free online food and wine pairing class with me, called the Five food and wine Pairing Mistakes That can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever at Natalie MacLean. And that’s all in the show notes at Natalie MacLean. 366. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a Swiss wine that pairs well with planning your trip to the country.

Natalie MacLean 00:54:54 You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie MacLean. Four. Meet me here next week. Cheers!

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