How Can a Vineyard (or Life) Disaster Turn Into a Good Thing? Sally Evans’ Life Story is Proof That it Can

Natalie MacLean
Apr16th

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Introduction

How can a vineyard disaster become an unexpected opportunity to innovate? How does storytelling transform wine marketing? What innovative pairings go beyond red wine and red meat?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with Sally Evans, author of the new memoir, Make The Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after Fifty.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of her terrific new memoir, Make The Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after Fifty.

 

How to Win

To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast.

It takes less than 30 seconds: On your phone, scroll to the bottom here, where the reviews are, and click on “Tap to Rate.”

After that, scroll down a tiny bit more and click on “Write a Review.” That’s it!

I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me.

Good luck!

 

Join me on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube Live Video

Join the live-stream video of this conversation on Wednesday at 7 pm eastern on Instagram Live Video, Facebook Live Video or YouTube Live Video.

I’ll be jumping into the comments as we watch it together so that I can answer your questions in real-time.

I want to hear from you! What’s your opinion of what we’re discussing? What takeaways or tips do you love most from this chat? What questions do you have that we didn’t answer?

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Highlights

  • Are you ever too old to start over?
  • How do we build resilience as we get older?
  • How did Sally’s harsh initiation with the 2017 frost in Bordeaux shape her approach to winemaking?
  • Why did Sally decide not to pursue organic certification?
  • How did it feel to present Sally’s first wine in 2018 at Bordeaux’s En Primeur?
  • Which aspects of the story does Sally hope critics understand beyond what’s in the glass?
  • Beyond scores and medals, what forms of recognition have been most meaningful to Sally as a winemaker?
  • What was it like to be sworn into the Confrérie des Gentilshommes de Fronsac?
  • What was the steepest learning curve in learning to sell a physical product like wine?
  • How has Sally found creative ways to market and sell Château George 7?
  • Why should you incorporate storytelling in marketing wine?
  • How did Sally pivot to minimize the negative impact of COVID on the winery?
  • What are some unusual pairings between vegetarian dishes and red wines?
  • How do you know when it’s time to move on from something you’ve built from scratch?
  • What can you do to avoid the gold medal phenomenon?
  • What goals would Sally like to accomplish before selling the winery?
  • Which royal would Sally like to share a bottle of wine with?

 

Key Takeaways

  • How can a vineyard disaster become an unexpected opportunity to innovate?
    • As Sally shares, she was still living in the southeast of France when the previous owner of her vineyard rang to tell her that the frost had destroyed everything. That was actually the moment that we decided to cut our relationship, in terms of him using the vines. And I said, Look, I’m going to take the vines back and we’re going to test a new winemaking technique. So with the two external consultants, we then said, We will take the grapes we have. I will buy three 500-liter French oak barrels and we will ferment the grapes in those barrels directly. And we put a plastic tarpaulin over the top and some heaters underneath. And I turned the barrels three times a day to mix the skins with the juice, to get the tannins and the extraction of the flavors and the color. While now we have barrel rooms and we have thermoregulation, we made a decent wine. And that proved the process. And perhaps I might not have had the courage to invest in all the big barrels I needed if we hadn’t had a test run with three of them. So that was a really good example of how in midlife we have that capacity to look at something that looks really bad, something that’s happened, and actually turn around and make something good out of it.
  • How does storytelling transform wine marketing?
    • Sally says that when she hosts wine tastings, she always talks about the occasions when they’re going to drink the wine: I think there’s one thing in marketing where you profile the customer but I think with wine, often it’s around the occasion and what you’re eating and who’s over and so on. I basically say, you know, Friday night, the neighbors come over, you get out a bottle of Prince. It’s an easy-drinking red wine. You’ve got a bit of saucisson, some pate on the table, and everyone’s having a lovely glass of wine. And then the neighbors don’t go home, and you have to put on the barbecue and cook some sausages or cook pasta, and you can drink Prince all night long. People are getting it. Their mouths are salivating, and they’re thinking about those neighbors that they know that come and do that. And then I pick up George 7, the main bottle, and I say, and this is Sunday lunchtime. This is when your family comes around, and you’re having a longer lunch, and you’re cooking a lovely slow roast lamb shoulder with a little bit of cumin and so forth, and so that really sets the scene. And I think that’s how we drink wine. We drink it for occasions.
  • What innovative pairings go beyond red wine and red meat?
    • Sally observes that when we look at the back of most red wine bottles, especially from Bordeaux, it says drink with red meat: I thought, well, that’s not really helpful. So I have lots of plant based dishes, and I have a very close friend Wendy Narby, who is a tour guide, a wine writer and experienced in Bordeaux wines. She and I sat down and said, red wine goes fabulously with veggie dishes, especially those with umami like mushrooms and aubergines. And so we’ve done it as a passion project. We don’t monetize it. We just have the website, and we send out a newsletter every couple of months with the new content, and we talk about how to pair plant-based food with different Bordeaux wines, white, red, sparkling, all sorts.

 

Start The Conversation: Click Below to Share These Wine Tips

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In the areas of wine production, wine tasting, being a wine critic, and being a wine writer, it’s all about your palate. It’s about what you know and what you can do. - Sally Evans Sally Evans Click to tweet

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At midlife, it’s easier for us to turn something good out of something bad. - Sally Evans Sally Evans Click to tweet

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You can do anything. Go at your own pace with your own level of risk, and go for it. - Sally Evans Sally Evans Click to tweet

 

About Sally Evans

After an international corporate career based in Paris and the South of France, Sally Evans completely changed her life in her fifties. She created an independent winery in Bordeaux, completely on her own with no prior experience or knowledge of wine. She threw herself into wine studies, bought a parcel of mature vines with some dilapidated buildings and created a brand-new wine chateau. She now has a boutique winery, Château George 7, in Fronsac on the right bank of Bordeaux. Her wines win high critical acclaim from leading wine critics and publications and are listed in Michelin-starred restaurants and top venues across Europe and the US. Sally has also created a wine tourism destination for tastings and events, winning accolades for its exceptional wine experience. Alongside wine, her other passion is supporting women to follow their dreams.

Her international best-seller ‘Make the Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after 50’ is an essential read for any woman approaching or in midlife who dreams of making a major life change. Sally provides a step-by-step guide, drawing from her own experience and offering invaluable insights and real-life examples. It is packed with practical advice and serves as a comprehensive framework to support any midlife transformation.

 

Resources

 

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Thirsty for more?

  • Sign up for my free online wine video class where I’ll walk you through The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!)
  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on Amazon.ca, Amazon.com and other country-specific Amazon sites; iTunes.ca, iTunes.com and other country-specific iTunes sites; Audible.ca and Audible.com.

 

Transcript

Natalie MacLean 00:00:00 How can a vineyard disaster become an unexpected opportunity to innovate? How does storytelling transform wine marketing? And what innovative pairings go beyond red wine and red meat? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in part two of our chat with Sally Evans. You don’t need to have listened to part one from last week first, but if you missed it, go back and have a listen after you finish this one. By the end of our conversation, you’ll also discover why you’re never too old to start over. How we build resilience as we get older. How Sally’s harsh initiation with the 2017 frost in Bordeaux shaped her approach to winemaking. How a newcomer’s perspective can transform traditional wine industry norms. Why Sally decided not to pursue an organic certification. How nerve wracking it felt to present her first wine in 2018 at the prestigious Bordeaux Home Premiere tasting with wine industry critics and important buyers. What Sally hopes critics understand beyond what’s in the glass. The forms of recognition that have been most meaningful to Sally as a winemaker.

Natalie MacLean 00:01:20 What it was like to be sworn into the confreres de genome de France? Yes, that is the Confederacy of Gentlemen of France at the steepest learning curve in selling a physical product like wine. The creative ways Sally found to market and sell Chateau George seven. Why you should incorporate storytelling in marketing wine. How Sally pivoted to minimize the negative impact of the pandemic on the winery. Unusual pairings between vegetarian dishes and red wines. How to know when it’s time to move on from something that you’ve built from scratch. How to avoid the gold medal phenomenon. The goal Sally would like to accomplish before selling the winery. And which member of the royal family Sally, would like to share a bottle of wine with? Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:52 I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started. Welcome to episode 333. This week I’m chatting about Easter and Passover wines on city TV’s Breakfast Television, as well as CTV’s Cp24 Breakfast show. I’ll share those tips and tips with you now. Let’s start with city TV’s breakfast television. Just in time for Easter and Passover, we’re going to crack open some common wine and whiskey myths. And who better to lead our expedition than our favorite drinks expert? Natalie MacLean. Editor of Canada’s largest wine review site at Natalie MacLean. Com. Okay, I have to give you the backstory first, though on this show, I tend to wear something on my head every time I go on there. Often they’re fascinators. I don’t know where it started, but now I can’t go on the show without one. But this time for Easter. I’ve got this really cute top hat with ears and a clock. So it’s the Mad Hatter hat, if you will. So now you’ll get the context of my terrible puns.

Natalie MacLean 00:04:03 And yes, they’re going to be lots more of them, by the way. The show host, Dina, she is all about the puns. So here we go. Dina and Tim as the Mad Hatter. I’m excited to hop into this topic with you. Clearly the joke’s on us for this episode. Great. So where are we starting? Well, many of us will be enjoying an Easter brunch of omelettes or quiche. So myth number one is that eggs are impossible to pair with wine. Smash that buzzer, Dina! Ooh, that is loud. All right. Yeah, you’re going to have to put up with this. Although eggs are tough on wine because they coat your mouth and contain sulfur compounds that can make red wine taste metallic.

A zesty, sparkling wine like this Saint Regis Brut from France is an Excellent pairing. The bonus is that it’s alcohol free. I mean, who needs mimosas when you’ve got this bubbly? Though? It also be excellent in mimosas. And by the way, you can buy this wine online directly from Amazon.

Natalie MacLean 00:05:08 They’ll ship right to your doorstep because there’s no alcohol. Or you can also try upside drinks. Tell them I sent you. Saint Regis offers crisp notes of green apple, pear and a hint of brioche with a refreshing stream of fine bubbles that dance in the glass. Did you know that alcohol free sparkling wines undergo the same fermentation process as regular wines, but then have the alcohol gently removed at the end, so this preserves much of the flavour while making it perfect for morning celebrations or for those abstaining from alcohol. And my mother loves this wine. I’d also pair this with Sunrise Salmon Benedict, featuring perfectly poached eggs with golden oozing yolks perched atop delicate smoked salmon and toasted artisanal sourdough, all draped with a silky hollandaise sauce infused with fresh dill and lemon zest. The swarm of bubbles cleanses and refreshes your palate after a soft yolk dish coats your mouth, making each subsequent bite taste better than ever.

I see you have a red wine for us next. I do indeed.

The Mastronardi Cabernet Sauvignon from Lake Erie, North Shore, Ontario.

Natalie MacLean 00:06:21 Now, some folks believe that Canada isn’t warm enough to ripen grapes for red wines. Tell them they’re wrong. Tim. That’s very disturbing. Ontario’s Lake Erie North Shore in southwestern Ontario is one of Canada’s warmest growing areas, allowing Cabernet Sauvignon to reach full ripeness and creating wines that stand shoulder to shoulder. Dare I say, elbow to elbow beside more famous regions. This elegant Cabernet Sauvignon displays concentrated notes of blackcurrant, currant, dark cherry and cedar with a hint of mint and structured tannins that provide a satisfying grip. I’d pair this with rosemary scented rack of lamb encrusted with a fragrant mixture of herbs, Dijon mustard and breadcrumbs, roasted to a perfect medium. Rare, with a caramelized exterior, giving way to juicy, plush pink meat inside, the richness balanced by the subtle gloominess that makes lamb so distinctive. The wine structure and fine tannins would cut through the succulent fat of the lamb while complementing its robust flavour.

What’s this next read? I’m glad you asked. Now, another myth is that you should always decant wine before serving.

Natalie MacLean 00:07:37 Not always. Smooth, lush wines like this Trento Malbec shine without decanting, especially with barbecue. Seriously? Really? I mean, who’s going to have a crystal decanter in the backyard anyway? Plus, you can raise a glass to World Malbec Day, which is April 17th. And did you know that many wines are filtered before bottling, making decanting for sediment rarely necessary these days? Save decanting for tannic wines that need to be smoothed out in response to interacting with oxygen or those that have sediment. This Malbec offers luscious flavours of ripe plum, blackberry, and violet with velvety tannins and a touch of vanilla from oak aging. I’d pair it with Easter ham studded with cloves. The outside layer has a delicate crispiness and the meat still juicy and tender beneath. The Malbec fruit-forward profile complements the sweetness of the ham while the tannins cut through the richness.

Let’s shift to whisky. Ya got it. Now there’s a perception that Canadian whisky is only good for mixing in cocktails. You know it’s coming. Let’s smash it.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:50 Woe to that I say. Fiddle faddle. And we have to talk about the rabbit in the room. While Canadian whisky does make superb cocktails, they are completely worthy of being enjoyed neat or with a drop of water like this. Beavers Jam Small Batch Whisky from Dunrobin Distilleries in Van Creek, Ontario. Never, ever underestimate the Canadian beaver. This whisky offers intense notes of coffee, maple and orange-scented almonds with a lingering finish. And what could be a better Easter pairing than bunnies and beavers? I’d pair this with a chocolate bunny banquet, featuring artisanal dark chocolate rabbits filled with hazelnut praline and a touch of maple syrup served alongside spiced nuts roasted with rosemary and brown sugar until golden and aromatic. The whisky’s complexity stands up to the rich chocolate, while its sweetness echoes the maple notes.

And just a side note, I brought in a chocolate bunny that was almost two feet tall and was £4 two and a bit kilograms. It was ginormous. That’s why I said we have to talk about the rabbit in the room.

Natalie MacLean 00:10:05 But it is beautiful and it is artisanal. It’s made by chef CA, headquartered in Gatineau, Quebec, but you can order online and some of their product is in Costco, others are in grocery stores. The original chef and owner today is Rock Fournier. So Rock chef is Rocky. Beautiful beautiful chocolate Natalie. These suggestions are fantastic. Any final words of wisdom for our viewers? So I propose a toast. Wine and whiskey, like life, are best savored when you taste the truth for yourself. Mercifully, I will not. I will not smash that buzzer anymore. Where can we find you and these wines and whiskies? Online on Instagram? I’m at Natalie MacLean wine and online. My website is Natalie MacLean. Com. Okay, let’s move on to CTV’s Cp24 Breakfast show. Now many of us will be gathering with family and friends for Easter and Passover meals this weekend. So which wines and spirits should you serve with fish, lamb and those irresistible chocolate bunnies? Here to help us is drinks expert Natalie MacLean, editor of Canada’s largest wine review site at Natalie MacLean.

Natalie MacLean 00:11:18 Com. It’s so great to be here with you now as a determined hedonist. I like something a little more than orange juice for Easter brunch. Thank you. Unless, of course, it’s a mimosa. The wines that work best for spring holidays are zesty and lighter than those we drink in the winter. They’ll put some spring in your glass and in your step. Sounds great. So many people observe Good Friday with a fish dish. What’s the perfect wine pairing for seafood? Now red wines often clash with fish, not because of what we previously thought, which was the wines. Tannin is just having a fistfight with the iodine in the fish, but rather the high iron content in the wine, and that comes from its soils. So what this does the iron content in the wine is it breaks down the fat and the fish and creates a taste that’s metallic.

That’s why zippy, zesty, unoaked white wines like the Ecker Gruner Veltliner from Austria are great matches for seafood, including bagels with cream cheese and lox smoked salmon.

Natalie MacLean 00:12:23 This is a delightful organic wine offering a dry, medium-bodied profile that’s fragrant with summer-kissed white florals and fresh orchard fruit. I’d pair it with a spring tide sea bass, prepared with a delicate crust of fresh herbs, lemon zest and breadcrumbs, then baked until the fish is pearly white and flakes at the touch of the fork, served with pencil-thin asparagus drizzled with a lemon-infused olive oil. The herbal notes in the wine create a beautiful harmony with the spring vegetables, while the bright acidity cuts through the richness of the dish and the fish in the dish.

So what do you have for those who love rosé? I tell them to try the lovely Westcott Delfin Rosé from Niagara. This rosé offers delicate aromas of wild strawberries and red currants, with a silky texture and bright acidity. You get the flavour of red wine without the heavy oak tannin and alcohol. I’d pair this with a harvest brunch casserole featuring layers of herb roasted potatoes, caramelized spring onions, smoky bacon and farm fresh eggs baked until golden and bubbly, finished with a sprinkling of fresh chives.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:38 The bright fruit in the wine complements the savoury elements of the gentle tannins and provides just enough structure to stand up to the richness of the dish.

And now for those serving lamb for their Easter celebration, what would be your go-to wine recommendation? Well, lamb pairs beautifully with a full-bodied red wine like this organic MontGras Carmenere/Cabernet from Chile, which is brand new in the LCBO and also available in other liquor stores. It has rich notes of blackberry, plum and mocha. So it’s better for the planet and your palate. Chile’s natural geography gives them an advantage in organic farming. The Andes Mountains on one side and the Pacific Ocean on the other create a natural barrier against vineyard pests. I’d pair this with an herb-crusted rack of lamb that’s been slow roasted until pink in the centre, then finished with a rosemary-infused red wine reduction sauce served alongside roasted root vegetables, caramelized to sweet perfection.

The wine structure stands up beautifully to the richness of the lamb. Ham is another classic Easter dish. Why would you recommend for it? Now ham presents a delicious challenge because of its complex flavors.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:56 Most hams are wet, cured with brine and then smoked, often finished with a sweet glaze or studded with cloves.

Try this vibrant tropical Malbec from Argentina, which offers luscious notes of ripe blackberries, plums and violets. And now you can raise a glass of peach to celebrate World Malbec Day on April 17th. And did you know Malbec was originally a French grape that found its true home in Argentina? So it was. Well, it remains, but was really one of the original blending grapes in Bordeaux along with Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot, Petit Verdot. And then it was also, and still is, one of the big grapes of southern France, like the Languedoc area. So the intense sunshine and high altitude of Mendoza, Argentina creates wines with more concentration and softer tannins often than their European counterparts. So I pair this with a sunset-glazed Easter ham, lacquered with a burnished coating of bourbon, brown sugar and orange zest that will create a glistening amber crust, contrasting beautifully with the juicy, savoury meat beneath, served with a tangy dried fruit chutney with warming notes of clove and cinnamon.

Natalie MacLean 00:16:13 The wine’s juicy fruit character will stand up to the ham’s sweetness while its structure balances the saltiness.

And finally, what about all those chocolate bunnies and eggs that will be tempting us this weekend? What could we sip on? Well, for chocolate indulgence, I suggest moving from wine to whiskey with this beaver’s dram. Sherry wood finish. Premium whiskey from Dunn Robin Distilleries in Van Creek, Ontario. This artisanal Canadian whiskey presents complex aromas of maple sugar, vanilla, toasted oak and baking spices with a warm, smooth finish that lingers pleasantly. And, you know, bringing together two of Canada’s cutest critters beavers and bunnies. Now that is up leveling Easter. I’d also pair this whiskey with a midnight Bunny feast featuring rich, velvety dark chocolate rabbits with ears that snap satisfyingly when bitten, revealing an interior that melts slowly on the tongue, with notes of red cherries and toasted nuts, and the slight bitterness of the cocoa, creating a perfect harmony with the whiskey sweetness. And the whiskey caramel notes complement the chocolate, while its spicy character provides a beautiful counterpoint.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:31 Take me away to bunny chocolate land with whiskey. All right, Natalie, these suggestions are fantastic. Any final words of wisdom? Well, I have to give a toast. Of course. May our cups and our hearts overflow with gratitude for the friends and family gathered around our table this weekend at 80. So you can find links to the videos of these segments, as well as the wines and whiskies that we tasted. That’s all in the show notes at Natalie MacLean. Com forward slash 333. I am always looking for your suggestions for upcoming segments on Citi TV’s Breakfast Television, CTV Morning Live, CP 23 Breakfast Show, The Social Global’s Morning Show, and CHC Morning Live. Whether it’s for drinks for spring, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day barbecue and Canada Day. So if you have wines, spirits, beer, cocktails or mixed drinks to suggest that I feature alcoholic or not, please let me know. Back to today’s guest. Three of you are going to win a copy of Sally Evans inspiring, witty new memoir Make the Midlife Move A Practical Guide to Flourish after 50.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:45 In winter’s news, Joseph, from Lynnfield, Massachusetts, has won both. Rosemary George’s Wines of Languedoc and Fiona morrisons ten Great wine Families a tour through Europe. Yes, you can win more than one book, so smash that buzzer. Or rather email me. I have one copy left of Fiona’s book to give away. It’s gorgeous. It’s full colour photos of the landscapes, vineyards and the amazing architecture of these wineries across Europe. Be a great coffee table book. All you have to do is email me and let me know that you’d like to win. It doesn’t matter where you live. I’ll choose four winners randomly from those who contact me at Nathalie at Natalie MacLean. And in other bookish news, if you’re reading the paperback or e-book or listening to the audiobook of my memoir wine, which on fire, rising from the ashes of divorce, defamation and drinking too much. A national bestseller and one of Amazon’s best books of the year. I would love to hear from you at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:44 I would be happy, joyous. Thrilled to send you a beautifully designed, personally signed book. Plates for the copies you buy or give as gifts. I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers worldwide at Natalie MacLean 333. The paperback usually arrives within a day or two of ordering. The book and audiobook are instantly available. Okay, on with the show. You also talk about ageism. What advice do you have for someone who feels they’re too old to start over, whether it’s in wine or any other field? Because you have to deal with that as well?

Sally Evans 00:20:25 No, you’re never too old. Absolutely not. So ageism, I think wine is actually a wonderful industry because it isn’t ageist in most sectors of it. So for example, in the area of wine production, of wine tasting, being a wine critic, being a wine writer, it’s all about your palate. It’s about what you know is about what you can do. And so I think that that is what’s so wonderful about wine.

Sally Evans 00:20:51 But clearly ageism is rife in some careers. And I think you do have to think when you’re doing a major change, whether ageism is there in the area that you want to get into. And it may be that there are some careers that if you want to pivot into a different career or some industries where ageism really is an issue. But no, I just feel that when we get to midlife, we have done so much and we’ve achieved so much. We have seen a lot. We’ve lived through a lot. We’ve got so much resilience. We’ve been creative. We’ve been forced to be creative. We’ve been forced to budget, we’ve been forced to manage all kinds of things. And actually, it’s a really good time. And so no, it’s all about your energy. It’s not about your age. It’s about your energy.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:38 I’ll drink to that. You talk about resilience in midlife. What do you think was something you could handle in your 50s? That you don’t think your 30 year old self could have managed as well?

Sally Evans 00:21:49 Well, coming back to those things that how much more we have lived through and got through.

Sally Evans 00:21:56 And I think that’s a very comforting fact because as you look back at what you’ve had to deal with, you know, it could be financial stress that you’ve got through and you’ve worked through or breakup of relationships or aging or dying parents or illness of close friends. You know, when you think about what you’ve got through, when you get to your 50s, that’s also made us really, really strong. And I think, you know, what we kind of realized by that stage that we’re probably better at looking at the big picture. We realize that some of the small stuff that we sweated when we were younger doesn’t matter really quite so much. And also we probably care a bit less what people think. We’re probably in our 20s and 30s still worried what people think. And we get to 50 and we’re like, hey, who cares? I’m going to do what I think is right and I don’t really give a damn what they think.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:49 That’s great. If I had a glass of wine, we’d be toasting multiple times by this point.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:54 Sally. So your wine making journey started with the 2017 frost that devastated much of Bordeaux. Looking back, do you think that harsh beginning shaped your approach to winemaking?

Sally Evans 00:23:06 Absolutely. Absolutely. So 2017, as you say, you know, especially here on the right bank, it wiped out most of the vintage. So I was still living in the southeast of France at that time. The previous owner had just pruned the vines. And then in April he rang to tell me that the frost had destroyed everything. So that was actually the moment that we decided to cut our relationship in terms of him using the vines. And I said, look, I’m going to take the vines back. Until that point, I think he had thought I would make wine with him. I’m going to take the vines back, and we’re going to take the few grapes that we’ve got from this year, and we’re going to test our winemaking technique. So with the two external consultants that I had met in the spring of 2017 and had been planning with, we then said, okay, this is the perfect opportunity.

Sally Evans 00:23:57 We will take the grapes we have. I will buy three 500 liter French oak barrels, so 500 liter is double the size, more than double the size of a normal barrel. So beautiful big barrels and we will ferment the grapes in those barrels directly. And I put over a plastic tarpaulin over the top and some heaters underneath. And I turned the barrels three times a day to mix the skins with the juice, to get the tannins and the extraction of the flavors and the color. And we tested that winemaking technique. And so while now we have barrel rooms and we have thermoregulation, that was the first art. Because in a bad year when you’ve hardly got any grapes, we made a decent wine and that proved the process. And perhaps I might not have had the courage to invest in all the big barrels I needed if we hadn’t had a test run with three of them. So that was a really good example, how in mid-life we have that capacity to look at something that looks like it’s a really bad something that’s happened and actually turn around and make something good out of it, because we’ve done that probably quite a lot in our lives by then.

Sally Evans 00:25:10 And I think that’s really important in midlife at any time. But at midlife, we’re maybe easy, easier for us to do it, to turn something good out of bad.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:19 That’s a great turnaround, to look at a disastrous frost as a way of testing, doing a small scale test and learning, and then getting up the ramp more quickly on that learning curve. You also discussed your approach to sustainability when it comes to winemaking and your decision not to pursue organic certification. Why was that and how have customers responded?

Sally Evans 00:25:42 So I have been very fascinated by sustainability right from the start because coming at it from the outside, I sat down with the person who advised me on wine production and said, right. Tell me about sustainability. Let’s start from scratch. And coming in from outside of an industry can sometimes be an advantage because you ask all the dumb questions. No one expects you to have any answers. You can sit there and just be there. You know, I was the dumb blonde old lady who was asking all these questions, but it meant I could really go at it with a very common sense approach.

Sally Evans 00:26:15 So, for example, organic is the label everybody knows. It’s obviously very attractive. And there are a lot of markets where there’s a lot of pressure put on winemakers to have that label to be able to sell their wines. But when I went into the nitty gritty. Bordeaux is a very wet region. Okay, we get a lot of rain, get 950mm of rain. So mildew can be a real issue, which means we need to do treatments against mildew. But the only organic treatment allowed in France currently is copper. So copper, which is naturally occurring because it’s not a manmade product, but copper, unfortunately, if you use too much of it, actually is toxic for the soil, it can make the soil infertile. So I started saying, well, hold on a minute. You know, we can’t use much copper because we don’t want to spoil the soil and how can we protect against mildew? And it became really clear that in a very wet climate, like Bordeaux, in a very wet year, some years are dry, which is fine.

Sally Evans 00:27:11 So we don’t need to do any more than spray a little bit of copper. But most years I would say eight out of ten are quite wet. And so spraying copper, the problem with copper, it washes off when it rains. So you have to keep on spraying. So because the second most impactful on the carbon footprint of a winery is the use of diesel. The more you use tractors, the more you’re polluting the environment. So it doesn’t make sense to me to use more tractor time to pollute the environment when actually we’ve got a really good treatment, which is based on a natural molecule from the plant, which has been reproduced using technology and will enable us to reduce the amount of treatments, the amount of fuel. So I just said, well, this makes common sense. And Anthony, who’s advising me, said, absolutely. But some people believe that it has to be organic. Now when I have people here at the vineyard and I explain that to them, they all go, absolutely.

Sally Evans 00:28:08 This is common sense. Use that treatment which has its origins from the plant. It’s reinforcing the natural defenses of the plants and it is actually allowed. I know I had Paso Robles winemakers here last summer, and they told me that in their organic Standards. They were allowed to use those treatments. And you can in Portugal and you can in Germany. So there is near natural as possible. And but it means I don’t get organic status, but I think it’s better for the environment so I can sleep better at night. So that’s fine.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:41 And what’s the treatment called?

Sally Evans 00:28:43 It’s a bio control product. So these are bio control where they as I say they’ve taken the natural molecule from the plants and then they’ve reinforced it and concentrated it using technology goes back on the plant and it goes into the plant. It is systemic, but it is a small addition of something which is not natural that technology has given us, which enables us, I believe, to be more holistically sustainable.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:07 Okay. Is it called roundup or.

Sally Evans 00:29:10 No no no no no no. That is for weekly. We don’t use any chemical weedkiller. We use no insecticides. The equivalent that I use is, you know, when you’re getting an itchy throat, that you know that you’re going to get a cold, you know something, and you need vitamin C, so instead of sitting and just eating oranges or sucking on lemons, maybe what you do is you take one of those fizzy orange tablets that you can get in the chemist, which has concentrated vitamin C in it, to be able to reinforce your body, to fight the disease. And that is what we do with the products. There are different brand names based on who has produced it, but basically it’s taking the natural molecule and going to the plant. Here’s your vitamin C that you need to fight that mildew. Not that vitamin C fights mildew, but you get my drift.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:58 Yeah, I get it. So when you presented your first wine from the 2018 Vintage All Premier, which is the annual prestigious barrel sample tasting in Bordeaux, where critics rate the wines and buyers are deciding what they’re going to purchase.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:12 Tell us how that felt, because that’s a lot of pressure. Maybe describe the scene and what you were feeling.

Sally Evans 00:30:19 So because I had so little wine from 2017, I just kept that in a barrel until we made the 2018. The harvest came in and when. Yeah. So the prima is in the April time. We’ve got it coming in a few weeks in April after the previous vintage, and it’s a real moment for people to get a taste of what the vintage is like and what the wine could be like and how it’s going to evolve. I hadn’t realized at the time what a big deal it was to present your first wine on prima. It is mainly the top chateaus that present on prima. It’s the idea is that it’s a futures exercise, and then the buyers will buy the wines before the wine is released. And I first of all, didn’t realize how great it was that I could get my wine in front of the prima. And I did that through my analyst, who had the right connections, and no one had ever tasted the wine outside the chateau, so he had no idea what people were going to think.

Sally Evans 00:31:15 It was absolutely amazing. When I got the score, I found out through WhatsApp and I just burst into tears. So it was just amazing. Yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:25 Sounds like your book hitting the New York Times bestseller list. That kind of moment.

Sally Evans 00:31:30 Yeah. No, it was it was amazing.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:33 So I don’t know if this was the same situation, but you received a very high score from The Wine Advocate, formerly owned by the renowned US wine critic Robert Parker. And then, of course, you mentioned the accolade from decanter magazine, the UK’s leading wine magazine. So when critics taste your wine taste today, what aspects of the story do you hope they understand beyond what’s in the glass?

Sally Evans 00:31:57 I think that the critics overall probably have visited quite a few wineries in their time, so I think they probably understand the work that goes into wine and the dedication needed the art and the science. So I think that they probably understand that. But I really hope that they, when they taste my wines, understand the passion there and the dedication of someone who didn’t know anything about wine and who’s really come at this with their whole heart and being.

Sally Evans 00:32:32 I hope they can tell that. I certainly feel from the wonderful tasting notes I get that they seem to appreciate it. But yeah, the passion behind it. I hope they can feel it.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:44 And of course, you talk about the importance of this recognition for building credibility for the wines, but beyond scores and medals, what other forms of recognition have been most meaningful to you as a winemaker?

Sally Evans 00:32:54 I think where experienced winemakers and masters of wine have got behind my wines and promote them, but also believe in them and recognize them. That has been because, you know, Masters of Wine spend years getting that qualification, and they really are people who know a lot about wine. So it’s a bit like a master sommelier. Them getting behind it means a lot. And my local neighbors too. One of my neighbors. One evening when we were presenting our wines locally, he said, you know, I’m in French. He said, I’m really, really, I really admire what you’ve done. I really admire what you’ve done.

Sally Evans 00:33:32 And that means a lot for a sort of simple wine farmer to actually say that to a British woman. That meant a lot. Also, you know, clients, clients who want to buy my wine and share it with friends, that means a lot when I’m talking to them. And they’re here and they’re all excited and saying, oh, I want to get bottles at home, because I want to take it to so-and-so because I think they’ll love your story. That means a lot to me.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:56 That’s great. And you write about being sworn into the commentary. Do. Gentlemen and gentlemen, gentlemen of France, what was that process?

Sally Evans 00:34:07 Well, it’s quite amazing, actually. It’s a group of people who are long standing in the Appalachian, who represent the Appalachian. You get your red cloak that you wear, and you get a big medal around your neck and you have to swear to uphold and defend and promote the wines of France. I’m surprised there wasn’t a sword at the ceremony somewhere. But no, it was just a big medal and a cloak and we all were sworn in to defend and support the wines of France.

Sally Evans 00:34:37 And then you drink like it’s a huge bowl of wine that you drink from. So yes, it was a really very special evening. And I think that was the ultimate recognition for what I’ve done for the Appalachian, despite only having a very small domain. It was very special.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:55 You know, finally welcomed in. Yeah. You have a background in marketing, not in product sales. So what was the steepest learning curve in learning to sell a physical product like wine?

Sally Evans 00:35:05 My previous background, as you say, had been in services and had been in technology services. It was actually a real pleasure, but it was thinking about all the aspects, because clearly I was thinking about how it’s going to look on the table, how it’s going to feel the weight of the bottle. How I’m going to get across the story that I want to. How I’m going to communicate to the consumer to make them want to share it. So all of that is something that I just hadn’t had experience with. But clearly, as a consumer and with a marketing kind of inquiring mind, I spent time doing that.

Sally Evans 00:35:42 And that’s where some of the things I do on my wines are a little bit unusual. So for example, on the back, this is my white wine bottle on the back of the bottle. I put clear figures which explain the size of the winery, what grape varieties are in there, how many bottles I make and when to drink the wine. And then a web address for recipe pairing ideas and the QR code for the scores from the critics. So as anybody who drinks French wine will probably say, that’s not a typical back of bottle, but that was actually one of the advantages of doing a product where I wasn’t from the industry before because I just came at it as a consumer.

Natalie MacLean 00:36:22 Right. That’s so great. Like Sally, that reminds me, like I, I’ve written three books and my third book, I wanted to put a QR code in the front and back of the book so that people could connect. They could get the Book Club Reader guide to my memoir and so on. And it took a lot of convincing of the publishers, like, what do you mean, a QR code in a book? What are you trying to do? Yeah, it’s like I’m trying to make this a living thing so that I can connect with readers, but you’re doing the same connecting with your wine drinkers, your buyers.

Natalie MacLean 00:36:52 That’s great. And you mentioned that you weren’t interested in cold calling to sell your wine. So what were some of the creative ways you found to market and sell Chateau George set?

Sally Evans 00:37:02 Well, I wrote a book. I would do anything, but I don’t do anything but pick up the phone and try and sell wine. So no, I’m joking. I’m only half joking. I really was sitting here last winter thinking. I really don’t want to be calling people and saying, do you want to try my wine? Apart from the book, I have really focused on trying to provide an exceptional wine experience when people come here for visits. And that way customers really want to buy because there’s an emotional connection. I do all the visits myself when people come. It’s a really lovely, lovely tasting room and wine terrace, and it’s a very new world style experience when people come here. And by really connecting with people and understanding and tailoring the visit to them and answering all their questions, including all the ones about setting up a winery, then you really get that connection with customer.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:56 That’s great. I think this has come through, but storytelling is a really big part of your brand. I mean, it’s right on the back of your bottle. It’s in your book. Are there other ways that you’ve incorporated storytelling into the way you market your wines?

Sally Evans 00:38:11 Definitely. So when I have people here and when I do wine tastings, I always talk about the occasions of when they’re going to drink the wine, because I think there’s one thing in marketing where you profile the customer is fine, but I think with wine it’s very much, often, it’s very much around the occasion and what you’re eating and who’s over and so on. So I have my wine called Prince, which is the wine, the red wine, which is more based on a fruity wine with less oak. And then I have my main wine, Chateau George set, which is, as I’ve explained, fermented in barrels, and then it’s aged in barrels. So it’s much more complexity and oak ageing. And I basically say, you know, Friday night the neighbours come over, you get out a bottle of Prince.

Sally Evans 00:38:57 It’s an easy drinking red wine. You’ve got a bit of sausage on, some paté on the table, and everyone’s having a lovely glass of wine, and then the neighbours don’t go home and you have to cook up. You have to put on the barbecue and cook some sausages, or cook a pasta. And you can drink prints all night long and people are getting it. Their kind of. Their mouths are salivating, and they’re thinking about those neighbors that they know that come and do that. And then I pick up Josh, set the main bottle, and I say, and this is Sunday lunchtime, this is when your family come around and you’re having a longer lunch and you’re cooking a lovely slow roast lamb shoulder with a little bit of cumin and so forth. And so that really sets the scene. And I think that’s how we drink wine. We drink it for occasions.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:42 It is absolutely. And the best retail sales people that I’ve encountered in clothing stores, when you put on a dress or something, start talking to you about, can you imagine wearing that to dinner? Or you know, you’ve got a special occasion and they make you dream up where you’re in that situation with that product, using that dress or drinking that wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:05 I think that’s really evocative in terms of storytelling and tapping into the consumer’s imagination. That’s fantastic. So how did you adapt to Covid?

Sally Evans 00:40:17 Well, that was fun. So as I mentioned, I started transforming the barn into a tasting room, the Tractor Barn, in January. So we shut down in the middle of March when it was almost finished. It was meant to be finished for the premiere tastings in April, but it finished. We shut down in the middle of March, so it was almost finished, and it became clear that we were not going to be able to open until later in the summer. We did eventually open in July, but clearly nobody could come from North America. Nobody could travel really from the UK because we weren’t allowed to go across borders. And just as things were slowly opening up a little bit, the only people who could come were people who wanted travel in cars because they didn’t want to be in planes and trains. So a lot of French people stayed in France and came.

Sally Evans 00:41:05 That was a little bit of a concern, because I had been targeting all my wines to the Anglophone Phone market, given my origins, and suddenly I had to do a quick turnaround to think, okay, I’ve got a white wine here that I really want to somehow get some scores quickly. And that’s when I entered it into a French magazine called Elle, which obviously is well known globally. But Elle magazine has a food and drink version of the magazine, and they have a wine competition. So I quickly entered it into the competition and luckily got a gold medal, which was announced at the end of May. And so I was able to have a French recognized medal on one of my wines. Because decanter doesn’t mean a lot to the normal French consumer. And so I was able to have that for when they came to visit. So that was good. But yeah, it was a tough time. I bottled my first red wine during Covid, so yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:42:02 Wow. And then you also created wine and two the number two veg.com a website as a passion project for pairing plant based food with Bordeaux wines, especially red wines.

Natalie MacLean 00:42:16 Tell us more about that.

Sally Evans 00:42:17 So one of the other products of Covid, my son came to stay during lockdown. He’d been living in London and he got out of London and he managed to lockdown with me. And when he arrived he announced that he had become vegetarian. Now he was the biggest meat eater ever. So it was all a bit of a surprise and I sort of rolled my eyes as mums do and said, well, look, I am not doing two dinners. I’m not doing a meat one and a veggie one for you. We’ve got enough going on. And he said, don’t worry mum, I’ll do all the cooking. So he cooked vegetarian for the ten weeks he was here and I felt so fabulous I decided to become vegetarian. And then of course, as you look at most red wine bottles. So I bottled my first wine that summer. The Covid summer 2020. And you look at the back of most red wine bottles, especially from Bordeaux. It says drink with red meat.

Sally Evans 00:43:06 And I thought, well, that’s not really helpful. So I have lots of plant based dishes, and I have a very close friend called Wendy Nabi, who is a tour guide and a wine writer and a very experienced in Bordeaux wines. I’ve 30 years of time in Bordeaux. And she and I sat down and said, you know, we need to help people understand that red wine is not just for meat. And with the current trends towards vegetarian food and eating more plant based food, that red wine goes fabulously with veggie dishes, especially those with umami like mushrooms and aubergines. And so we’ve done it as a passion project. We don’t monetize it, we just have the website and we send out a newsletter every couple of months with the new content, and we just talk about how to pair plant based food with different Bordeaux wines white, red, sparkling, all sorts. So there we.

Natalie MacLean 00:44:00 Go. What are a couple of the more unusual pairings that you’ve discovered that actually work between vegetarian dishes and red wines.

Sally Evans 00:44:08 Interestingly, we’re about to launch a new section because we’ve done pairing by season according to Seasonal Vegetables. As you know, in France we eat a lot seasonally. So, you know, looking at the different seasons and we’re doing now specialist cuisine. So we’ve done Lebanese cooking and we are now about to do South Asian Indian food. And one of the interesting things is that as a European consumer of a red wine, say with curry, with heat, I would always say to somebody, look, you must make sure that you don’t have too much tannin because the tannin can increase the sensation of heat. And when I interviewed our guest, who is of Indian origin, she says, actually us Indians, we love having wines with tannin because we love the heat and we want to accentuate the heat. So it was quite interesting because I’ve always thought you’ve got to play it down, but actually, depending on how fiery you like it, they would actually look at having more tannin to increase the heat, so that was quite a surprise to me.

Natalie MacLean 00:45:10 Wow. Yeah. A different cultural perspective for sure.

Sally Evans 00:45:12 Exactly.

Natalie MacLean 00:45:13 So you’ve hit your ten year anniversary at Chateau George set and mentioned that you will likely sell in the next couple of years. How do you know when it’s time to move on from something you’ve built from scratch?

Sally Evans 00:45:26 I guess the flippant answer is probably as soon as you start getting more excited about something else than what you’re doing every day. But clearly, you can’t sell or move on from a winery from one day to a next. It’s a long process, and you’ve got the growing ear and everything that goes into it. But from my perspective, I feel that I’m still innovating. I’ve got various new things I’m doing, but I also feel the years are passing. I’m 63 this year and I feel I’ve got so many more adventures I want to have. I’ve got more writing I want to do, I’ve got more traveling I want to do. I have a son who lives in Hong Kong. He’s married now. Hopefully he’ll be having a family and I want to spend time with them.

Sally Evans 00:46:06 I feel that it’s been ten years and that it’s been an amazing project. If I’d started when I was 40, then maybe I would carry it on a bit longer. But I just feel I’ve done a lot and I want to also leave while I’m still enjoying it. I don’t want it to be to drag me down and it to be, you know, become drudgery. I don’t think that that will happen to me, but I don’t want to get to that anyway. I’d rather quit while I’m on a high.

Natalie MacLean 00:46:34 What is the one thing? Or maybe there’s several. But what is the one thing you’d like to accomplish before you sell the winery?

Sally Evans 00:46:41 Well, this year I’ve got a wine club that I’m launching in the next 2 to 3 weeks. I know that’s something that’s very common in other parts of the world, but here in France it’s not quite so common. But I’m going to launch a wine club. I’ve got quite a few very loyal clients, and I think that’s probably a really good thing to do, including some wines from some of my neighbours as well as my wines.

Sally Evans 00:47:02 I’ve got a new wine that I made in the 22 vintage as a homage to the Queen, because she died in 2022. It’s called the Royal Reserve. It’s all the George I mean in gold. And the word gold is oah in French, and that is in the middle of the name George. I’m going to launch that this year. So those are a couple of things that I really want to do. I’m definitely going to do that this year. So if I’m still here this time next year, which I probably will be, I’ll have thought some new things to do as well, because every year I launch something new.

Natalie MacLean 00:47:33 Terrific. You also referenced the gold medal phenomenon, how people feel lost after reaching a big goal. How did you deal with that? Because you’ve accomplished so much. How do you avoid kind of that that drop after you kind of achieved something?

Sally Evans 00:47:49 It’s interesting. I think that this gold medal phenomenon often happens to Olympic athletes when they’ve been striving for a long time. It’s such an anti-climax afterwards.

Sally Evans 00:48:01 Like, what am I working towards? The thing with a winery, any winemaker will tell you there’s always so much to do and so much to get on with. You don’t have a moment to actually have that anti-climax. You’re juggling so many balls. You’ve entered a number of competitions. You get this award that happens. That’s great. But in the meantime you’ve got all those requests for more visits or we haven’t got enough bottles, we haven’t got enough corks. There’s so much going on that you just don’t have time, I think, to end up with that anti-climax. Well, certainly that’s my experience. It’s full. Go go go.

Natalie MacLean 00:48:36 Go go go. And you also talk about the importance of celebrating small wins. How do you do that?

Sally Evans 00:48:42 It’s something that I found very hard. I think it’s something it’s linked to imposter syndrome, that because there is something inside which maybe you think that perhaps you don’t quite deserve it, that you don’t take the time to celebrate it. And I think us women sometimes can do that.

Sally Evans 00:48:58 We could gloss over it. So that’s been something that I’ve learned to do, is celebrate success and small wins. So the first thing I do is WhatsApp all my girlfriends. We have our girls groups obviously, because they’re always my best supporters, so WhatsApp them. And of course I have a glass of wine and I do actually take the time now to tell people and people who are close to me, and obviously I’ve got a bigger network and I have the most amazing network of women in wine around me, including, you know, my friend who I’ve done the website with, but also in all aspects of wine production, wine writing, wine service, masters of wine and so forth. And I just find them all so mega supportive and really, truly happy for you. And so yeah, I do take time to have a glass of wine with them because it’s it’s worth it.

Natalie MacLean 00:49:48 That’s terrific. So speaking of that, if you could share a bottle of wine with anyone outside the world of wine, living or dead, who would that be?

Sally Evans 00:49:57 Well, honestly, thinking about it, Given the name of my winery, I think it would have to be Prince William because I would love to know what goes on in the Royal family behind the doors.

Sally Evans 00:50:10 We’ve all watched The Crown and we all know that that’s fiction. We don’t really know what goes on behind closed doors. I think William and Kate are doing an amazing job to kind of reinvent the next generation of royals, of how they are, and their son will be George seventh. So it would have to be him, maybe.

Natalie MacLean 00:50:34 Absolutely. Absolutely terrific. As we wrap up Sally’s wonderful conversation, is there anything you wanted to mention that we haven’t covered?

Sally Evans 00:50:44 I want to say that honestly, if I had thought at the beginning of my mid-life change, you’re going to have an award winning wine tourism centre. You’re going to make these fabulous wines, you’re going to do this, you’re going to have all these visitors. You’re going to. I probably would have been scared witless, and I probably wouldn’t have done it because I felt that it was a huge thing in an area I didn’t know on my own as a British woman, but I took it step by step. And so I think that it’s really important for people to go at their own pace, with their own level of risk.

Sally Evans 00:51:21 And quite honestly, you can do anything. And I really mean that. You can really, really do anything and that you shouldn’t be afraid to go at your own pace with your own level of risk and go for it.

Natalie MacLean 00:51:33 Fantastic. Fantastic advice, great life advice. Great wine advice. Where can we find you and your wines online?

Sally Evans 00:51:40 My website is Chateau George sitcom. So Chateau George number seven. Com and on there, if people are looking for my wines in Europe, they can order online. I ship to the States to people as well in the States, In Canada, my wines are with the Opinion Wine Club. So my wines are offered through them. So that’s how people can get hold of my wines. And if you are in a place, then it’s not mentioned on the shipping page where I ship to. Just drop me an email and I’ll let you know. Sally at shutterstock.com and I will get back to you. And in the UK, I have an importer called Davies. You can find it from them online from them.

Natalie MacLean 00:52:25 Davies. So we’ll put links to all of those in the show notes as well as of course, your website and the pairing, the vegetarian pairing site. So I’m going to say cheers for now. This is been a wonderful, wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for spending your time with us.

Sally Evans 00:52:41 Thank you. I’m going to say cheers and I’m going to have a glass of wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:52:44 Cheers. I’ve got a tea mug. All right.

Sally Evans 00:52:47 Sally, lovely to meet you. Thank you so much, Natalie. I really appreciate it.

Natalie MacLean 00:52:51 Great to meet you, too. All right. Cheers, Sally. Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Sally. Here are my takeaways. Number one, how can a vineyard disaster become an unexpected opportunity to innovate? As Sally shares, she was still living in the south east of France when the previous owner of her vineyard rang to tell her that the spring frost had destroyed everything. That was actually the moment, she says. We decided to cut our relationship in terms of him using the vines.

Natalie MacLean 00:53:27 And I said, look, I’m going to take the vines back and we’re going to test a new winemaking technique. So with the two external consultants I hired, we then said, we will take the grapes that we have. I will buy 3500 litre French oak barrels, and we will ferment the grapes in those barrels directly. And we put a plastic tarpaulin over the top and some heaters underneath. And I turned those barrels three times a day to mix the skins with the juice to get the tannins and the extraction of flavors and color. Well, now we have barrel rooms and we have thermoregulation, and we made decent wine. And that proved the process. Perhaps I might not have had the courage to invest in all those big barrels I needed if we hadn’t run the test with three of them because of the short harvest. That’s a really good example of how, in midlife, we have the capacity to look at something that looks really bad. Maybe it’s something that happened and actually turn it around and make something good out of it.

Natalie MacLean 00:54:30 Number two, how does storytelling transform wine marketing? Sally says that when she hosts wine tastings, she always talks about the occasions when they’re going to drink the wine. So I’m quoting her here. I think there’s one thing in marketing where you profile the customer, but I think with wine it’s often around the occasion and what you’re reading and who’s over and so on. I basically say, you know, it’s Friday night. The neighbors come over, you get out a bottle of my Prince wine. It’s an easy drinking red. You’ve got some paté on the table. Everyone’s having a lovely glass of wine. And then the neighbors don’t go home. And you have to put on the barbecue and cook some sausages or pasta. And you can drink that prince all night long. People are getting it. Their mouths are salivating, and they’re thinking about those neighbors that they know who come and do that. And then I pick up the George seven, the main bottle, and I say, now this is Sunday lunchtime.

Natalie MacLean 00:55:27 This is when your family comes around and you’re having a longer lunch and you’re cooking a lovely slow roast lamb shoulder with a bit of cumin and so forth. And that really sets the scene. And I think that’s how we drink wine. We drink it for occasions. I have to say, Sally is so bang on with that. And number three, what innovative pairings go beyond red wine and red meat? Sally observes that when we look at the back of most red wine bottles, especially from Bordeaux. It says drink with red meat. And so now I’m quoting her. I thought, well, that’s not really helpful. So I have lots of plant based dishes, and I have a very close friend, Wendy Nabi, who is a tour guide, a wine writer and experienced in Bordeaux wines. She and I sat down and said, red wine goes fabulously with veggie dishes, especially those with umami flavours like mushrooms and aubergines. So we’ve created the website as a passion project. We don’t monetize it and we send out a newsletter every couple of months with new content, and we talk about how to pair plant based food with different Bordeaux wines, red wine, sparkling, all sorts.

Natalie MacLean 00:56:37 All right. In the show notes, you’ll find a full transcript of my conversation with Sally, links to her website, book and wines, the video versions of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube live, and where you can order my book online now, no matter where you live. If you missed episode So 181 go back and take a listen. I chat about Bordeaux and Spanish wines with Lori Bud. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite. You were in Bordeaux. You participated in the premiere tasting.

Lori Budd 00:57:06 It was a once in a lifetime experience. You get to taste the wine that is bottled from barrel, and you’re tasting the wines prior to their release. All of these premier tasters are there and they rate the wines. This is what allows them to determine what price point they will do, and it also allows them to sell the wine before it’s even released, which is brilliant marketing.

Natalie MacLean 00:57:31 It’s kind of like a futures market.

Lori Budd 00:57:33 Exactly. It’s the original futures market is what it is.

Natalie MacLean 00:57:41 You won’t want to miss next week when we chat with Henry Jefferies, author of four books including Empire of Booze and Vines in a Cold Climate. Which one? The Fortnum and Mason drink book of the year. He’ll join us from his home in the south of England. If you liked this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell one friend about the podcast this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in learning more about starting your own winery or dream project. It’s easy to find my podcast. Just tell them to search for Natalie MacLean Wine on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favorite podcast app, or they can listen to the show on my website at Natalie MacLean. Com forward slash podcast. Email me a tip, question, or if you’d like to win one of three copies of books by Sally, one by Fiona. And yes, you can get the jump on winning one of three books by Henry Jeffreys. I’d also love to hear your thoughts on this episode, or if you’ve read my book or are listening to it, so email me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean.

Natalie MacLean 00:58:44 Com in the show notes, you’ll find a link to take a free online food and wine pairing class with me called the five Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever and Natalie MacLean. And that’s all in the show notes at Natalie MacLean. 333. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a boutique Bordeaux made by someone who dared to make a dream a reality. You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie MacLean. Com. Meet me here next week.

Natalie MacLean 00:59:37 Cheers.

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