Is A $400 Wine Really 10 Times Better Than a $40 One? Do Wine Labels and Glassware Matter More Than You Think?

Natalie MacLean
Jun11th

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Introduction

Is a $400 wine really ten times better than a $40 one? Does the right glass really improve your wine and is it worth it when the size makes you look ridiculous? Why do wine labels matter and should the label’s look be part of every wine review?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with Charles Jennings and Paul Keers, co-authors of the hilarious book I Bought It So I’ll Drink It.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

Giveaway

Three of you are going to win a copy of their terrific book, I Bought It So I’ll Drink It.

 

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To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast.

It takes less than 30 seconds: On your phone, scroll to the bottom here, where the reviews are, and click on “Tap to Rate.”

After that, scroll down a tiny bit more and click on “Write a Review.” That’s it!

I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me.

Good luck!

 

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Join the live-stream video of this conversation on Wednesday at 7 pm eastern on Instagram Live Video, Facebook Live Video or YouTube Live Video.

I’ll be jumping into the comments as we watch it together so that I can answer your questions in real-time.

I want to hear from you! What’s your opinion of what we’re discussing? What takeaways or tips do you love most from this chat? What questions do you have that we didn’t answer?

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Highlights

  • Why do we feel guilty about window shopping when it comes to wine?
  • What’s the worst wine gadget or gimmick Paul and Charles have encountered?
  • How did a 1947 Sauterne create a bond between Paul and a French wine seller?
  • What was their most triumphant wine deal discovery?
  • Are there elements that expensive wine delivers, that bargain wines can’t?
  • Why are Charles and Paul suspicious of mixed cases of wine?
  • Has the quality and perception of box wines changed?
  • What’s the strangest vessel Paul and Charles have drunk wine from?
  • What was it like drinking wine at 10 Downing Street and Lambeth Palace?
  • What was Queen Victoria’s tipple like?
  • Why does Charles love drinking on his own?
  • Which current wine trends will we look back on as ridiculous?
  • Which wines would Charles and Paul now pair with their favourite childhood foods?
  • Who would Paul and Charles love to share a bottle of wine with?
  • Why should wine critics write about wine labels in their reviews?

 

Key Takeaways

  • Is a $400 wine really ten times better than a $40 one?
    • Charles and Paul believe there is a greater experience to be gained from drinking better wine, but that the return for your money plateaus quickly. If you go up from a £10 wine to a £30 wine, you will really notice the difference and have a tremendously greater experience. But then if you multiply that by 10 and go from £40 to £400, the difference in quality isn’t that great. You’ve got to decide when you’re going up that $400 level. Yes, it’s going to be an experience, but is it going to be 10 times as good as a $40 bottle?
  • Does the right glass really improve your wine and is it worth it when the size makes you look ridiculous?
    • Paul thought, “Okay, I really like Bordeaux. Can’t afford the great Bordeaux, so I’ll get a Riedel sommelier tasting glass, which will improve the taste of the cheaper Bordeaux.” And this glass now retails for £90 for a glass and unfortunately, it’s about the size of a baby’s head. Colossal thing. If I’ve got people around for dinner and I sit at the end of the table and everybody else has got normal wine glasses, I look like a complete plonker. And I’d love to sit there, “Oh, it’s magnificent.” And they’re going to think, what an idiot. So unfortunately, it doesn’t get much use. It does enhance the taste of the Bordeaux, there’s no doubt about it, but I’m so embarrassed sitting there drinking out of this thing the size of a melon that it really doesn’t get much use.
  • Why do wine labels matter and should the label’s look be part of every wine review?
    • Charles and Paul mention wine labels because they think that they are ignored by most wine writers, and they’re terribly important for two reasons. Firstly, because they’re about the only marketing that most bottles of wine have, because we go into shops and that’s all we can see, the labels. And second, if you’re setting a table for dinner, you’ve invested in the table, in the dishware, the cutlery, the glasses to set up this beautiful thing. Why would you put a bottle of wine on the table – however it tastes – if it looks terrible? Wine critics should always say what the label looks like and whether it would look good on the table.

 

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People who announce with a great gust of piety that they never drink alone are the worst sort of puritan. - Charles Jennings Charles Jennings Click to tweet

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There’s just you and the glass of wine, and that’s it. You’re having a complete moment of self-indulgence and you can only get there if it’s just you. - Charles Jennings Charles Jennings Click to tweet

 

About Charles Jennings & Paul Keers

Charles Jennings and Paul Keers are award-winning writers based in London, England.

Charles Jennings is probably best known for his wiseguy travelogue Up North and the Edwardian social history Them And Us; for his writings on architecture, property and the urban environment, in The Guardian and Telegraph newspapers; and for his wine-writing shenanigans with Sediment, in both blog and book form. Paul Keers has also written for various British newspapers and magazines and was the Launch Editor of GQ magazine in the UK. He is currently the Chair of the TS Eliot Society UK.

Charles and Paul co-authored the wine blog Sediment, described by New Statesman writer and Guardian literary critic Nick Lezard as “the finest wine blog available to humanity.” The blog became the basis for their book, I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. Book-Prize-winning novelist Julian Barnes called it “The funniest wine-book I’ve read in a long time. Not just laugh-aloud funny but snortingly, choke-on-your-cornflakes funny – up there with Kingsley Amis and Jay McInerney.” Their book won the prestigious André Simon Award.

 

Resources

 

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Thirsty for more?

  • Sign up for my free online wine video class where I’ll walk you through The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!)
  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on Amazon.ca, Amazon.com and other country-specific Amazon sites; iTunes.ca, iTunes.com and other country-specific iTunes sites; Audible.ca and Audible.com.

 

Transcript

Natalie MacLean 00:00:00 Is a $400 wine really ten times better than a $40 one? Does the right glass really improve your wine, and is it worth it when the size makes you look ridiculous? And why do wine labels matter so much? And should the labels look be part of every wine review? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions. In Part Two of our chat with Charles Jennings and Paul Keers, co-authors of the hilarious book I Bought It So I’ll drink it. You don’t need to have listened to Part One from last week first, but if you missed it, go back and have a listen after you finish this one. By the end of our conversation, you’ll also discover why we feel guilty about window shopping when it comes to wine, but not for other products. The worst wine gadget or gimmick Paul and Charles have ever encountered. How a 1947 Sauterne created a bond between Paul and a wine merchant. Their greatest wine deal discovery elements that expensive wines deliver but bargain wines cannot. Why Charles and Paul are suspicious of mixed cases of wine. How the quality and perception of boxed wines has changed. The strangest vessel Paul and Charles have drunk from. What it was like drinking wine at ten Downing Street with the Prime Minister, and at Lambeth Palace with the Archbishop. What Queen Victoria’s favourite tipple was. Why Charles loves drinking on his own. Current wine trends will likely look back on as being ridiculous. Which wines Charles and Paul would now pair with their favourite childhood foods. And who Paul and Charles would love to share a bottle of wine with.

Natalie MacLean 00:01:58 Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:40 Welcome to episode 341. Canada Day is coming up soon, so I thought I’d share a segment with you that we did on CTV’s The Social about trailblazing wineries across the country. These wineries have all contributed to both Canadian and to the worldwide wide wine scene with unique grapes, new winemaking techniques, strong environmental practices and innovative visitor experiences. Not only are they pioneers in these areas, but they are also leaders in the quality of wines they produce. So we’re going to start off on the West Coast in Oliver, British Columbia with Gold Hill Winery. The founders are brothers Sant and Gurbachan Gill. They were born in Punjab, India and immigrated to the Okanagan Valley in the 1980s. After years of working hard on a fruit farm, they saved enough to buy land on the famous Golden Mile in the heart of the Okanagan Valley in 1995. Aside from the owners, the management team is all women. As is winemaker Val Tait, who immigrated from Mexico.

Natalie MacLean 00:03:46 Goldhill is not only famous for its Cabernet Franc, but the winery is also a champion to make this a signature grape or varietal for the South Okanagan. They aged their wine for an average of five years before they release it, and that’s extraordinary, since it not only ties up cash flow, but it also results in highly complex, layered wines for consumers. This wine exudes aromas of violet, sage, vanilla, blackberry. It’s medium bodied and juicy with a long finish. Pair it with a tender Salt Spring Island lamb with rosemary. And keep in mind that you can buy the wines from Gold Hill and all of the wineries that I’m mentioning today directly from the winery. They will ship no matter where you live in Canada. Inter-provincial and federal borders are coming or have gone down, so do it. Just do it. There is a huge benefit to buying directly from the winery versus just picking it up in the local store, because you start to develop a relationship with the winery. If you like, you can get on their mailing list or join their wine club. But also this is a reliable source of income for the winery, versus listings can come and go at the liquor store chains on their whim. But with this, these small farms, they’re essentially family farms, start to develop a steady stream of dependable income.

Natalie MacLean 00:05:04 All right. Moving on to Niagara, Ontario. We have Henry of Pelham. 30 years ago, brothers Paul, Matt and Dan Speck started planting vineyards on Niagara’s Short Hills bench as teenagers when Henry of Pelham was only one of eight wineries in Ontario. Imagine that. There’s more than 500 wineries now. The property still has the original buildings of the Speck family’s forefathers from 1842, and a state-of-the-art wine production facility. The winery is a founding member of both Sustainable Wine Growing Ontario to minimize its environmental footprint, as well as the Vintners Quality Alliance VQA to establish quality standards for both Ontario and Canadian wine. Henry of Pelham is known as a pioneer for the Baco Noir grape worldwide. It’s an early ripening, winter-hardy varietal suited to Canada’s cool climate. This full bodied wine offers aromas of campfire smoke, blackberry, plums, cedar, leather and oak. It’s as Canadian as a red plaid shirt. The wine is also deeply pigmented. Purple teeth are a badge of honour among those who love it. And don’t worry, that comes off. You won’t end up looking like an extra in the movie Deliverance.

Natalie MacLean 00:06:31 The other thing I’d like to emphasize with each of these wines and wineries is that you can visit them. They also depend on your tourism dollars. And, you know, a staycation or a local vacation, depending on which winery is closest to you, is a wonderful way to really maximize your vacation. And even for families with children, there are often activities to do from ballooning to biking to spa. There’s great restaurants often attached to these wineries or in the area. And of course, the regions are beautiful. So another way that you can support these wineries is by visiting them.

Natalie MacLean 00:07:28 Next we have the Grange of Prince Edward in Hillier, Prince Edward County, Ontario.  Niagara is the best-known region in Ontario, but just two hours east of Toronto is Prince Edward County, where some of the most exciting wines are emerging, including this one from the Grange of Prince Edward County, which has more than 40 acres under vine. They’ve recently completed an extensive vineyard rejuvenation project, replanting thousands of vines by hand throughout the property. They also offer a comprehensive culinary program focused on local farm-to-table ingredients from local producers. The winery’s estate Rosé is bursting with fresh notes of watermelon, pink grapefruit, and strawberries. It would be perfect with the winery’s homemade foods. This wine is clean, bright, and juicy, like a canoe gliding over a pristine lake at sunrise.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:01 Next, we’ll visit Quebec with Domaine de Ridge in Saint-Armand. This winery has more than 235,000 plants on its property, making it a leader for biodiversity in Quebec. Originally, Denis Paradis, who founded the winery in 1996, planted them along with friends and family just as they did the harvest together in the early years. Since each plant can attract a dozen or more different insects and butterflies. The vineyard is teeming with life, thousands of insects and butterflies. It’s so beautiful. Between the vineyard rows, they also plant clover, oak, daikon radish, plus the small purple flowers that bring nutrients to the soil naturally. The winery specializes in hybrid grapes, a graft between two grapes to create a new one that can withstand the cooler temperatures of Quebec’s Eastern Townships. This bright and bracing white wine is made with Vidal Blanc grapes. It offers energetic flavours of lime, guava, and white peach. Its racy acidity will cut through melting cheese and fries and poutine faster than a lumberjack can holler timber.

Natalie MacLean 00:09:16 We’re ending our journey in Nova Scotia with Gaspereau Vineyards in Wolfville. Gaspereau Vineyards’ Gina Haverstock was named the 2024 Winemaker of the Year at the Wine Growers Canada Awards. She is not only the first person outside of Ontario and B.C. to win this prestigious award, but also the first woman. After finishing a Bachelor of Science degree, Gina had planned to become a doctor. But when she graduated, she took a summer job at Jost Vineyards, a sister property of Gaspereau Vineyards, and fell in love with wine. Now her patients are vines, and she takes care of all our palates. The Gaspereau Vineyards Tidal Bay embodies the crispness of the province’s cool-climate region, and it would pair perfectly with a feast of Atlantic lobster and warm butter. Tidal Bay is also an appellation—or designation—unique to Nova Scotia. To earn it, wines must be made from specific grape varieties grown in the province, be low in alcohol (at no more than 11%), and highly aromatic, like this one with zesty notes of lime, apple, and ocean spray. And then the host said, thank you Natalie. Where can we find you in these wines online? Well, on Instagram, I’m reviewing these wines and more at Natalie MacLean Wine and online my website is nataliemaclean.com.

Natalie MacLean 00:010:40 All right, back to today’s episode. Three of you are going to win a copy of the guests’ terrific book I Bought iIt So I’ll Drink It. I just love that title. I also still have two copies left of the memoir, Grape Expectations A Family’s Vineyard Adventure in France, filled with vivid descriptions of delicious wines, great food and stunning views, and a unique insight into the world of the winemaker. Written by a previous guest, Caro Feely. aA well as two copies of the award winning book vines in a Cold Climate by Henry Jeffreys. If you’d like to win a copy, please email me and let me know you’d like to win. It doesn’t matter where you live, I’ll choose seven winners randomly from those who contact me at [email protected]. You can even give the book as a gift.  In other bookish news, if you’re reading the paperback or e-book or listening to the audiobook of my memoir Wine Witch on Fire: Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Defamation and Drinking Too Much a national bestseller and one of Amazon’s best books of the year. I’d love to hear from you at [email protected]. I’d be happy to send you beautifully designed, personally signed book plates for the copies you buy or give as gifts. I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers worldwide at nataliemaclean.com/341. The paperback usually arrives within a day or two of ordering. The e-book and audiobook are instantly available.

Natalie MacLean 00:12:03 Okay, on with the show. Now let’s talk about wine shopping. I just love the whole thing about browsing in wine stores as a flâneur or someone who sort of observes people is there to look but not necessarily to buy. One of you described it as shopping, especially in posh shops, as a cross between spiritual quest and shoplifting. Back to that trench coat, I guess. Is wine the only product do you think that we feel guilty about when we’re just looking and we really don’t want to buy it?

Paul Keers 00:12:39 I don’t feel guilty. I would put it on a par with going into a bookshop. You’re perfectly entitled to go into a bookshop and look around the shelves. The difference is that in a lot of the wine merchants, as soon as you get in the door, someone says, can I help you? And, well, no, actually. I’d just like to have a look and then. Oh. Oh. All right. No one would say that if you walked into a bookshop, you know. Can I help you? He’d be left alone to have a look around and see what there is. And so I really like looking in wine shops, looking what’s there. Learning from it, I think. A lot of the wine education is just. Oh, so those grapes are in the Italian section, or you learn from seeing how it’s divided up geographically, how these things are shelved and so on. I think it’s a terrific experience. And if you get the objectionable store assistant who wants to help you, all it’s doing is blocking off that sort of education, if you like.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:39 Right. And Charles, your shopping experiences, are you kind of in tune with that?

Paul Keers 00:13:44 I don’t have any shopping experiences.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:46 Shoplifting then? I don’t know.

Charles Jennings 00:13:48 Paul like shops. He likes to go into all sorts of shops and shop, which is okay. All right, I hate shopping. I’m just a traditional bloke. If I want something, I think I’ll try it. I know roughly what it is, and I know roughly where to look for it. And I’m going to go and look for it if it’s not there. I mean, I’m out and that’s it.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:05 Surgical strike.

Charles Jennings 00:14:06 And wine is exactly the same thing. I fancy a bottle of that. That’ll do. It’s about a 90 second process.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:12 Okay. Yeah, I can see the…

Charles Jennings 00:14:14 There’s a fancy new wine shop just opened up near us. I still haven’t been into it. Yeah, I suppose I’ll have to one day. But why? You know, as Paul says, some guy’s going to jump out of me because they’re going to assume I’m looking for something, but I don’t really know what. And so he’s going to, you know…

Natalie MacLean 00:14:32 Pressure you into something…

Paul Keers 00:14:33 Charles is a lot happier than I am with deliveries. You know, it’s often written about having these cases and cases delivered from supermarket online retailers and so on. And because you can do all that at a distance so he doesn’t have to interact with anyone. he can just order it online. And I hate deliveries. So when I have to have wine delivered it’s a nightmare situation. So big difference there between us.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:57 Oh well yes, Paul, I have to quote you now because you have a hilarious passage about wine deliveries. I’ll read just a tiny bit, but you say that wine always tends to arrive at the worst possible moment: during a bathroom break or when a disapproving spouse is in earshot. And so quoting. Is that something for me, Mrs. Keers, your wife. Her dulcet tones proceed her steps downstairs. I’m caught in the hallway case in hands like a dog with a string of sausages. What? That box. I think I would be pushing my luck if I were to retort. What box?

Paul Keers 00:15:34 Well, this is true. This is what always happened. You know, the doorbell would go and I’d be in the bathroom. And what am I going to do when I open the window? Hang on. just a minute. So by the time I get down the stairs, this huge box is being put in my arms. And there’s my wife. Oh, it’s another box. Of what? yeah. Okay. sorry about that. Yes. I’ll just take it downstairs. And, you know, you can’t get away with it. And usually it’s so awkward. I hate it, hate it. And I find myself sitting there all morning waiting for the doorbell to ring, and then it doesn’t ring until it’s the wrong moment, and it’s just terrible.

Natalie MacLean 00:16:10 Terrible. My heart really goes out to you, Paul. My ex-husband. I used to do sneaky shopping. One of many reasons we’re no longer married. But I would try to get the dress inside in my closet. Tags off, bags away. What? This old thing? You know, it just inevitably, he was there when the delivery came anyway. Always happens. Always happens. What’s the worst cover story you’ve ever concocted for explaining an unexpected case of wine at the door? Did you even try?

Paul Keers 00:16:37 Oh, it must be one of those PR.

Natalie MacLean 00:16:41 Those samples that you keep getting. Oh that’s great. What’s the worst or oddest marketing gimmick you’ve ever seen to market wine? I don’t know, gift with purchase. Any marketing thing that you thought was kind of silly or beyond the pale?

Charles Jennings 00:16:59 Apart from occasionally you got like a back in the day. If it was a sort of sparkling wine, there would be a little. You get a fun bug, you know, tax the bottle. But I mean, that’s a that’s all I can remember. Paul, would you have anything fun? Give me a pair of shoes or something.

Paul Keers 00:17:14 I used to revel every Christmas in doing what we call the Sediment Christmas Mart. And I would look for the most ridiculous wine related products that were being sold anywhere, and sort of write them up as a little Christmas gift guide.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:30 Of what not to buy?

Paul Keers 00:17:31 Exactly. Because there’s so rich. Who on earth buys this rubbish? It’s the idea that if you drink wine, someone will buy you this. Ha! I got you this. They will.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:41 Absolutely dreadful. There’s like a menagerie of shame. What were the most ridiculous things that you wrote about? Like 1 or 2 things that were just the most useless wine gadgets or gifts.

Paul Keers 00:17:52 One of them was a wine glass that was like in half. So you had a curved half and then a flat edge. And it was you said you wanted only half a glass. Oh, yeah. And the ugliest one I ever came across was this sort of frame that went on the wall, and there was a hole in the side, so you could put your used corks into this frame. And gradually this frame would fill up with your used wine corks. Who on earth wants a box full of wine corks on their wall?

Charles Jennings 00:18:27 Each cork is a precious memory of a fine wine enjoyed, isn’t it?.

Paul Keers 00:18:31 Not in our case.

Charles Jennings 00:18:34 Not a load of screw tops in my case. So I did find online once. No, I never actually got got my hands on it. An old fashioned corkscrew. And the handle was in the shape of Bill Clinton.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:47 Oh. That’s odd.

Charles Jennings 00:18:50 Yeah, that’s what I thought. Well, there you go. I could have sprung. £18.99 or something for it or dollars, but I didn’t. There you go.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:57 Could be worth a lot these days. What about your colleagues? What was your colleagues idea about a tanker of wine?

Charles Jennings 00:19:04 Oh, that was a mate of mine. He just comes up with pretty terrible ideas, but absolutely everything you can think of. He’s a genius. Absolute genius. He said, look let’s put this on a proper business footing. So you get a truck, and then you somehow make a huge wooden barrel, like a fruit dish. An enormous one. Put it on the back of the truck. Take it down to the south of France. Fill it with the cheapest red wine you can lay your hands and drive back really fast. And then go to one of these markets. You know, like the ones that Paul goes to in trendy parts of town. You know, where there’s cheese mongers and vegetable sellers and you got you park up and there you are, and you fill people’s containers up with this stuff, and you get a French guy dressed in a stripy shirt with a beret, or an English guy pretending to be you know and he said he can’t fail. This is the best idea ever. And you will make a fortune.

Paul Keers 00:19:55 Because you went somewhere in France, didn’t you? Filling up like a jerry can with wine.

Charles Jennings 00:20:00 Oh, yeah. Well, that was the whole, that was that was on the basis. That was what that was all about.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:04 A jerry can, like for petrol, for gasoline?

Charles Jennings 00:20:07 It was. Oh, it was beautiful. It was in southeast France. And we got some friends there and they don’t make wines but they grow there. Anyway, there’s the co-operative, the local co-operative. So we went out and it’s Saturday morning and there are these whopping great food dishes, these big vats. And people were just bringing along this. They call it a QB, a little plastic flagon with a tap on the end. It’s five liters. And it was like a petrol pump. You know, he’d take out the metal handle. This big rubber hose goes into this whopping great vat, and he’d fill up your QB with five litres of whatever type of wine that  you wanted. And I immediately bought a cube and had it filled five litres of something. That was really a wonderful moment. I mean, the problem with the QB is it’s not like a wine box. Obviously, it doesn’t collapse. So you’re letting the wine out and it’s aerating. And so you’ve actually got to bottle it as soon as you get home, which I slightly overlooked. So I had to drink it very, very fast even when it runs off. But the idea of this huge, beautiful oaken barrel with thousands of litres of wine just coming out of a petrol pump hose, it’s just it’s just beautiful.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:18 Well you could modify that idea and have the reserve and the table du vin like they do the different grades of gasoline. I think that could…

Charles Jennings 00:21:25 Well, I mean, they did. They did. All sorts of different flavours to choose from. I think that was instrumental in this preposterous idea.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:35 Okay. Which one of you bonded with a salesman over a 1947 Sauterne. I think that was in a wine shop, right?

Paul Keers 00:21:42 Oh, that would be me. Charles wouldn’t even know what a 1947 Sauterne is.

Charles Jennings 00:21:47 Excuse me. I do know what a Sauterne is, and I know I understand dates.

Paul Keers 00:21:52 It was a lovely wine shop in Paris, and I’d gone in there to do my sort of browsing bit and the assistant inevitably said  in French could he help me? And I sort of stumbled through saying hello and he obviously recognized then that I was English and started and he was an Englishman guy from up in Lancashire, young guy. And we started talking and talking about wine and he said, just look at this. And he sort of opened this drawer. And in there was this 1947 Sauterne and we just both of us just stood there and looked at it. And just seeing this wine was such a privilege. And we were both sort of looking at in his eyes. And that was just a great moment.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:36 You both understood how special it was.

Paul Keers 00:22:38 Yeah, that was it. Yeah.

Charles Jennings 00:22:40 How long ago was this? I mean, how old was the wine when you were looking at it?

Paul Keers 00:22:44 It was in the 20s, so it’s nearly 80 years old. 70 or 80 years old?

Charles Jennings 00:22:50 47?

Paul Keers 00:22:51 47. Yeah

Charles Jennings 00:22:52  it would have been okay.

Paul Keers 00:22:54 I would think so. For a good Sauterne. And certainly if it was Yquem  it would be.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:59 But he didn’t open it?

Paul Keers 00:23:01 No, sadly.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:02 Not sadly. So I trust it wasn’t Yquem

Paul Keers 00:23:05 I don’t think it was. Or I would have put that in the piece.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:08 Right. So it’s still pretty special no matter which one. Sweet wine from Bordeaux. Okay. So a lot of your stories are about bargain hunting, which is delightful. What was your most triumphant wine deal discovery. And was it actually good to drink either of you?

Charles Jennings 00:23:27 It would have to be the petrol pump stuff in Ventoux, right. That was a real revelation. And because it was so unpretentious and fresh and real, that was just great. That’s it. Nothing could beat that.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:38 From Petrus to petrol pump, you guys do cover the whole gambit there. Do you think there’s something that expensive wine delivers that bargain wines can’t apart from perhaps, I don’t know, inherent quality. I mean, there’s more expensive inputs, but is there anything there other than maybe. I don’t know, how you’re feeling about it.

Paul Keers 00:23:58 I think there is a greater experience out of drinking better wine, there’s no doubt about it. But I think that the return for your money sort of plateaus fairly quickly. So, you know, if you go up for, I don’t know, the equivalent in Canadian dollars, but if you go up from a £10 wine to a £30 wine, you will really notice the difference and have a tremendously greater experience.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:24 So from 15 to $40 approximately.

Paul Keers 00:24:27 Right. But then if you multiply that by ten and go for the from $40 to $400. I suspect that the difference in quality isn’t that great. It’s beginning to plateau out. So you’ve got to decide when you’re going up that $400 level. Yes, it’s going to be an experience, but is it going to be ten times as good as a $40 bottle?

Natalie MacLean 00:24:49 Yeah, absolutely.

Charles Jennings 00:24:50 And I would sort of go in the other direction that if you got something that’s really pretty ropey, but you can find a way of making it acceptable. That’s a fantastic way. Because actually, again, south of France, I remember we’re in a restaurant. We said, oh, let’s have a bottle of rosé. I mean, it’s local rosé.

Charles Jennings 00:25:08 And it turned up and it was room temperature and it was a beautiful, hot, warm evening. But okay, what do we do then? And then this big bag of ice cubes gets plunked on the table next to us. Of course. So you fill up your glass and then plunk in an ice cube and let it all mix and mingle. Of course, it was work perfectly. You weren’t drinking quite so hard, the wine chilled, but it was a beautiful mist would fall on the glass, and it didn’t matter that the wine was like €2 a liter or something like that. It was just nothing special. So that that sort of enjoyment that’s beyond price.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:40 I love that the two ways, two directions. I don’t know if both of you are deeply suspicious of mixed cases. So of different wines, say 12 different wines. But as you rightly note, we don’t buy mixed cases of bread or many other products. Do you think there’s an element of gambling, or covering your bases, or hoping to discover one thing among some duds? Or what is it about mixed cases and wines?

Paul Keers 00:26:03 I think it’s an almost con trick on the part of the wine retailers that they can get away with fobbing off the wines that they can’t sell otherwise.

Paul Keers 00:26:13 You know, there’s no other real argument for it. Oh, it’s a lucky dip. And, you know, well, no, it’s not because they’ve chosen the wines that are going in there. And I think you’d be very unlikely to unwrap it, but. Wow, a bottle of Latour. Sure. Well, well. You know. No, it’s not going to happen. It’s like there’s Christmas hampers as well. You know, when you look at even the posh Fortnum and Mason Christmas hamper, and there’s always a couple of things in there that no one really wants. You know, the tinned peaches or something, I don’t know. And you think, yeah, they’ve just put that in because they can’t get rid of it. Otherwise it’s.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:49 Absolutely. That sounds very very likely. End of line stuff. Let’s move to wine vessels in your chapter on wine boxes. You describe the somewhat conflicted feelings you have about them. Do you think the quality and perception of Box wines has changed since you read the book? Have you changed your perception of them?

Paul Keers 00:27:07 I have to say, I keep a wine box of white wine in the fridge now permanently in order to cook with it, because if you open a bottle of white wine just to put 100 mil in a recipe, you know, then you’ve got this open bottle of wine.

Paul Keers 00:27:21 Whereas if you’ve got a box, you can just use the tap, take off 100 mil, put it in and all’s well and good. I think in terms of having a wine box out to drink from, I found that was a recipe for disaster because it’s like, you know, oh, look, I’m just passing the wine box. Oh, why don’t I just have a little glass now? And, you know, I always feared the next thing would be sort of lying on the floor holding this box up over your open mouth. As you can see.

Charles Jennings 00:27:47 We’ve all been.

Paul Keers 00:27:47 There.

Charles Jennings 00:27:50 I’m thinking of going back to it. Actually, I haven’t had a wine box in the house for ages, but. But I know people who will keep you up. Keep a rosé or white in the fridge just for tippling, and as long as you can maintain an iron grip, then it seems a pretty good way to do it. So I might try that again.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:07 Okay, well, evolution. Your descriptions of drinking from plastic goblets are hilarious.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:13 What’s the strangest vessel you’ve ever drunk wine from in a pinch, and did it affect the taste or experience of the wine?

Paul Keers 00:28:21 Your industrial mug, I would say.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:23 what was that?

Charles Jennings 00:28:24 It wasn’t really strange. I mean, it was a mug. You know, normally tea or coffee, but I had some really horrible red. I think maybe this might have been a coach of your own. My brother in law brought me a case. It was really nice. It’s revolting. It’s absolutely disgusting. I don’t know why. And I was just trying to find different ways of getting through it. You know, like setting fire to it or straightening it through a sock or something like that. Anyway, I thought, I’ll put it in a mug. It’s a big old chunky mug. Big old chunky coffee mug. And it kind of helped. Because then the mug sort of impact. You weren’t in a glass, you couldn’t see it, really. You’d appear down into it, and it sort of empowered you.

Charles Jennings 00:28:58 You’re holding on to it. So you’re not going to get away. There’s only one boss here, and it’s me. Right. So you stay in the mug until you’re drunk. It was that sort of feeling. It was. So I would recommend that if you’ve got something that’s a bit hard to dispose of.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:12 I have to try that this weekend. And, Paul, what about your Riedel tasting glass?

Paul Keers 00:29:16 Oh. The Riedel tasting glass. I have it here. I’ll show it to you.

Charles Jennings 00:29:20 Oh, no.

Paul Keers 00:29:22 Oh, yeah. So this was when, you know, sort of starting off and that, you know, were relatively young still and designing glasses for each particular wine variety. So I thought, okay, I really like Bordeaux. I can’t afford the great Bordeaux. So I’ll get a Riedel sommelier tasting class, which will improve the taste of the cheaper Bordeaux. And this glass. It’s now retails for like £90 for a glass.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:51 150 something.

Paul Keers 00:29:53 $150, something like that. And unfortunately, it’s about the size of a baby’s head, if you can see, this is a colossal thing.

Paul Keers 00:30:01 I mean, it’s a really huge.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:03 Steam facial in that after you finished drinking.

Paul Keers 00:30:06 So I’m in this position where if I’ve got people round, like for dinner, I if I sit at the end of the table with this and everybody else has got normal wine glasses, I look a complete plonker and I’d love to sit there like, oh, it’s magnificent. And they’re going to think, look what a. You know. So. So unfortunately it doesn’t get much to use. It does enhance the taste of the Bordeaux. There’s no doubt about it. But I’m so embarrassed sitting there drinking out of this thing the size of a melon that it really doesn’t get much juice.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:37 Oh, that’s too bad, Paul. Let’s talk about your your experience drinking wine at ten Downing Street with the Prime Minister of the UK, and then at Lambeth Palace with the Archbishop of Canterbury. So maybe what surprised you about the wine selections at both?

Paul Keers 00:30:55 What surprised me was how poor the wine was. Really comes back to my absurd ideas that, you know, this is all about aspiration and social status and these sort of things.

Paul Keers 00:31:06 And yeah, you get a wonderful. Here is an invitation to ten Downing Street. You can see what you get is a kind of, you know, crest and all this sort of thing. And and then you go there and they’re drinking Campo Viejo, Rioja, which is like rubbish wine, really everyday wine. It’s not the sort of wine you expect to find in ten Downing Street in Lambeth Palace. Archbishop of Canterbury. You go there. What are they drinking? Basic New Zealand, Australian Cabernet sauvignon, Sauvignon blanc. You know, a really basic wine. And the conclusion I came to in the end was that the occasion, the location, is so significant that they don’t really need to make it up with the wine because you’re not there for the wine, you’re there for the Prime Minister, for the Archbishop of Canterbury, for the social conversation. So they get away with this really quite low rent wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:04 Do you think they were pouring the PM and the Archbishop different wines or.

Paul Keers 00:32:07 No, I don’t think so.

Paul Keers 00:32:09 Certainly with the PM. The PM at the time was David Cameron and I didn’t even see him with a glass in his hand. He just swanning around the room, having a little bit of conversation here, a little bit of conversation there. The other thing that talking about strange drinking vessels in number ten. They serve the wines in these sort of shatter double glasses. They’re really thick. It’s like car windscreen glass, presumably. So that should anyone think I’ll break this glass and stab it in the face of the Prime Minister? You can’t do it. Because if you shatter the glass, it’ll just crumble into bits. But it’s really not good for drinking wine from. It’s a good security arrangement, but not a good wine drinking arrangement.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:50 Wow. Does anything stand out from those visits for you, Charles, either. Please.

Charles Jennings 00:32:55 I wasn’t there. I don’t get invited to 10 Downing. I never go to these fancy pants dos.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:02 I’m sensing a total divergence. It’s a wonder that you two ever met or stayed together as writers.

Charles Jennings 00:33:07 Who said we stayed together.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:09 Extraordinary. Okay, the chapter about trying Queen Victoria’s tipple. Red wine mixed with scotch. What did that taste like?

Charles Jennings 00:33:17 It was just horrible. It was half and half. I didn’t make too much. She was very, very partial to it apparently. You think Victorian. It was a model of rectitude and uprightness and probity and all that. She took marijuana during childbirth to ease the discomfort and her regular drink was this filthy mixture that she swore by. So I made some half and half. I put in a little glass, and I went writing or doing something, and Iput the glass down and then forgot it was there, really. And then looked at it. I thought, oh yeah, I must try that, and took a really big slug. And it was awful, and I thought I was going to die. And, you know, I had chest pains, double vision and all this sort of stuff.  So that was the end of that. So a total waste of scotch just ruined mine. Oh, actually. And the other one that I wanted to try, but I just didn’t have the courage. But I will one day was Evelyn Waugh, you know, the famous writer. Brideshead revisited?

Natalie MacLean 00:34:16 I was mixing up the two.

Charles Jennings 00:34:18 And he really drank and he had a midday reviver to sort of get him through the rest of the day. And that was a mixture of Guinness. You know, the extra stout. Rqual measures Guinness, gin and ginger beer. And he would drink a sort of roughly a pint of that just to get through lunchtime. But I’m still waiting to try that. But I, you know, I’ve got to be strong.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:45 Right. Wait a little longer here.

Paul Keers 00:34:47 We were talking about Kingsley Amis earlier on, and at one point he used to have a drinks cabinet on the little landing in the turn of the stairs in his house. And so I said, well, why have you got drinks cabinet there? Well, in case I get caught short without a drink when I’m going upstairs. I rather fancy following that myself.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:05 That’s great. And how about celebrity wines? Have you encountered any that you thought were ridiculous or any that actually tasted good?

Paul Keers 00:35:15 They all seem to be just sort of marketing things.

Charles Jennings 00:35:19 I did it.  The cricketer Ian Botham.

Paul Keers 00:35:22 Ian Botham?

Charles Jennings 00:35:23 And they all do, don’t they?

Natalie MacLean 00:35:25 Sports celebrities.

Charles Jennings 00:35:26  Absolutely. Didn’t Angelina Jolie.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:30 Yes.. Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. Miraval. But they split and he’s now the majority stakeholder. So that’s of course, produced by the Perrin family, Château de Beaucastel.

Paul Keers 00:35:40 So it is supposed to be quite nice, but it’s out of our price range.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:43 It is pricey.

Paul Keers 00:35:45 Yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:46 Interesting…

Paul Keers 00:35:47 And the PRs haven’t sent us one, so.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:49 Well, we’ll send them one.

Charles Jennings 00:35:52 Francis Ford Coppola, did he make one?

Natalie MacLean 00:35:54 Yes he does.

Paul Keers 00:35:55 He makes it. And it’s supposedly a good and again, out of our price range, I think. Yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:36:00 The old Inglenook estate. So let’s just touch briefly. I love this what you said when discussing drinking alone, you know that people who announce with a great gust of piety that they never drink on their own are the worst sort of puritan. Do you still believe that and maybe say more about it?

Charles Jennings 00:36:19 I’m laying it on a bit heavy. I’m not quite sure what mood I was in when I wrote that, but I go the other way. Actually, I love I may sound like an alcoholic, I suppose, but I love drinking on my own. Not to excess. Not drinking yourself under the table because you’re fed up. But just. I like eating alone. And just you. And you’re just there. And you can just enjoy whatever it is. I can remember being in places, you know, bars or pops or something like that. And there’s a break. There’s a moment. I’m just having a glass of wine. It’s a nice day. And you do that. There’s just you and the glass of wine. It’s just one that you don’t get drunk. You’re just. You’re just having a complete moment of self-indulgence. And you can only get there if it’s just you. So there you go.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:01 Pleasures of solitary drinking. One of you again noted that Blue Nun was once considered sophisticated in the 1970s. What do you think we’ll look back on today? That’s in vogue right now. Say in 10 or 20 years and say, oh, that was just ridiculous, or it’s no longer whatever.

Paul Keers 00:37:20 I would say. And it’s a combination of the wine and the packaging and it’s what over here – I don’t know if the term has come over there – is yacht Rosé.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:29 Yacht Rosé

Paul Keers 00:37:30 Have you come across this?

Natalie MacLean 00:37:31 We’ve got rock yacht stations where they just play innocuous music by feathered haired 80s guys.

Paul Keers 00:37:38 Well, the idea of yacht rosé is two things, really. One is that it comes in as large a bottle as possible, so it looks like almost a fire extinguisher or something massive, massive bottles of this stuff. Because you’ve got an incredibly expensive yacht, you know, you’re an oligarch and you have girls who come out with these massive bottles, and the Rosé itself should be as pale as possible. So it’s got lighter and lighter and lighter until there’s almost no Rosé flavour in it whatsoever. And that’s the hallmark of it being a really glamorous yacht Rosé is that it’s practically no colour, no flavour, but comes in a colossal bottle. I think that’s the one. In a few years time, they’re going to look back and say what was that all about?

Natalie MacLean 00:38:28 Well, epitomizes the whole yacht scene. Charles, is there anything for you that any trend or particular type of wine that you think in ten years will think? That was ridiculous? Why were we caught up with that?

Charles Jennings 00:38:40 I’m just agnostic on this. I mean, I take Paul’s point. Certainly in the UK, I mean, Rosé has become. Rosé commands, a price premium. Anyway, the most ordinary stuff is £1.50 more than its neighbour, you know, its white or red neighbour and you know it’s a social sociable drink and it’s a kind of girls night out kind of drink. And it’s the packaging, you know. It’s packaged and repackaged in fancy bottles. Not just not just huge bottles, but it’s in bottles with all sorts of vribbing and lumps and strange shapes to make them look different. And yeah, that may be ten years now. So what was the fuss about? It was all right. Come on.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:23 All right, well time’s flying. So how about a lightning round? Just some quick answers or quick questions. Short answers. Let’s see. You can answer it or pass. But if your mother wrote a book about you, what would the title be?

Charles Jennings 00:39:35 Are you sure that’s a good idea?

Natalie MacLean 00:39:38 I like that.

Paul Keers 00:39:40 Yes, I like that.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:41 How about you don’t both have to answer them. But if you want to go ahead, there’s no buzzer, but just let me know. If your high school yearbook had superlatives, what would you have been voted most likely to become?

Paul Keers 00:39:57 Our school motto was rather of use than fame, and I suspect both as a view of me and a criticism of that they’d say most likely to be famous.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:08 Okay. I see.

Charles Jennings 00:40:09  Most likely to be famous and useful. Mine would be most likely to remain exactly the same.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:17 Oh, perfect. Your favourite childhood food and what would you pair with it today as an adult?

Paul Keers 00:40:23 There used to be a wonderful thing called Angel delight. That was a sort of really high processed dessert that you used to make from a powder. And oh, God, it was delicious. They don’t make it anymore. There’s too many chemicals in it. But it was very, very sweet. The idea of having that and maybe that 1947 Sauterne.  I think that would be an interesting combination.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:44 Yeah. Shabby chic kind of. Yeah.

Charles Jennings 00:40:47 Right. I would say beans on toast. And also pair it with the same Sauterne.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:51 Well that’s great. If you could share a bottle of wine with anyone outside the wine industry, living or dead, who would it be and what would the bottle be?

Paul Keers 00:41:02 I think boringly, for me, you mentioned at the outset that I chair the T.S. Eliot Society. t would be with T.S. Eliot, who was an enormous clubman. It was actually a great gin drinker rather than wine drinker. He drank an enormous quantities of it, but the idea of drinking a really nice Bordeaux in one of his gentlemen’s clubs on Pall Mall and talking with him about his work. That would do it for me.

Natalie MacLean 00:41:27 Lovely. Anyone come to mind, Charles?

Charles Jennings 00:41:30 I would have a bottle of Champagne with Jimi Hendrix…

Natalie MacLean 00:41:33 Good guitarist

Charles Jennings 00:41:35 … or Ella Fitzgerald.

Natalie MacLean 00:41:37 Right.

Charles Jennings 00:41:38 But, Champagne.

Natalie MacLean 00:41:39 Champagne.

Charles Jennings 00:41:40 I don’t know, Champagne. As long as it looks like champagne.

Natalie MacLean 00:41:43 Sounds lovely. If you could put up a billboard in downtown London, what would it say?

Charles Jennings 00:41:50 Do you remember when you could park here for free?

Natalie MacLean 00:41:53 Just to aggravate everyone.

Paul Keers 00:41:57 That’s great.

Natalie MacLean 00:41:58 Anything come to mind, Paul?

Paul Keers 00:42:00 Probably the thought I’ve kept in mind for many years. The light at the end of the tunnel is probably a train coming the other way.

Natalie MacLean 00:42:09 I love it. It’s a perfect way to wrap up.

Natalie MacLean 00:42:13 Is there anything we haven’t covered that you’d like to mention?

Paul Keers 00:42:16 I’d mention wine labels because I think that they are ignored by most wine writers, and I think they’re terribly important for two reasons. Firstly, because they’re about the only marketing that most bottles of wine have because we go into shops and that’s all we can see is the labels. So they’re terribly important from that point of view. And personally, I think if you’re setting a table for dinner, you’ve invested in the table, in the crockery, in the cutlery, your glasses. You set up this beautiful thing. Why would you put a bottle of wine on the table, however it tastes, if it looks terrible. And I have decanted lots of wine simply because the label is horrible. And I think that wine critics should always say what the label looks like, and whether it would look good on the table.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:05 What for you makes a good label?

Paul Keers 00:43:07 As a traditionalist, I like those elderly French labels with sort of dry point pictures of the chateau.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:13 Castle in the middle distance.

Paul Keers 00:43:15 Exactly. Yeah, that gives it that sort of authenticity.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:18 No fluffy squirrels or purple iguanas?

Paul Keers 00:43:20 Absolutely not. Exactly.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:22 Okay.  I can see your dinner set. Charles, anything you want to mention that we haven’t covered?

Charles Jennings 00:43:28 Just thinking about this all over again. You know, having not thought about it, really, for a few years. Paul and I are so old. We’re both nearly 70. We’re going to be 70 next year.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:38 Wow. You’re well preserved. Or maybe pickled. Completely pickled.

Paul Keers 00:43:41 I’m 69 next year.

Natalie MacLean 00:43:43 That’s remarkable.

Charles Jennings 00:43:44 I’m so sorry. Paul. Yes, of course you are going to be 69 years. No, are you?

Paul Keers 00:43:48 No. We’re not. You’re saying I think you’re next year would be something. Come on. He’s right.

Charles Jennings 00:43:54  I can’t keep up. Yeah. So we’re both going to be 70 in December. A bit of a way off. But we’re that generation where wine became democratized in this country, obviously France forever. But for the first time, it wasn’t something stuffy or arcane, or at least terribly expensive. And I can remember the first big wine warehouses coming in, and you’ve got a real choice. And it was just wonderful. And I still feel a bit of a novelty value about it. I still have never really got used to it. Younger generations and so on. It’s just as everyday, as you know, bread and butter. But I still feel very slightly excited about it. It’s just ridiculous, but I do.

Natalie MacLean 00:44:35 So there’s still some magic about it.

Charles Jennings 00:44:38 Some. It’s still. It’s nuts.

Paul Keers 00:44:41 I find that the downside of being our age. Once upon a time, I used to invest in buying wines en primeur from France and sticking them downstairs for ten years. And now the on primeur offers come out. And I look at it and it says, you know, it’ll be at its best in 2037. And I think, well, I won’t be. I’ve stopped it.

Natalie MacLean 00:45:04 I guess you have to take that into consideration. Not just drink by dates, but live by dates. Wonderful, wonderful. Where can we find you and your books and your blog? Just remind us where we can find all that online.

Paul Keers 00:45:18 Sedimentblog.blogspot.com. That’s the place to go. And you know, you mentioned the archive. It’s all there. The blogs, the books. More about us. It’s all at sedimentblog.blogspot.com.

Natalie MacLean 00:45:29 Well, I urge everyone to go back to them because they are they are evergreen. They are timeless because of your wit and style both of you. So thank you so much for spending your time with us and your great stories and humor and intelligence. Really appreciate. It’s been a wonderful conversation. So thank you both.

Charles Jennings 00:45:48 Thank you. Thanks a lot.

Natalie MacLean 00:45:55 Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Charles and Paul. Here are my takeaways. Number one. Is a $400 wine really ten times better than a $40 one? Short answer, no. But Charles and Paul believe there is a greater experience to be gained from drinking a better wine, but that the return from your money plateaus quickly. So if you go up from say a $10 to a $30 wine, you’ll really notice the difference and have a tremendously better experience. But then if you multiply that by ten and go from $40 to $400, the difference in quality isn’t that great. You’ve got to decide if you’re going to go up to that $400 level and how your trust fund is doing. Yes, it’s going to be an experience, but is it ten times as good as that $40 bottle? I would say no.

Natalie MacLean 00:46:39 Number two. Does the right glass really improve your wine and is it worth it when the size makes you look ridiculous? So Paul thought to himself, okay, I really like Bordeaux, but I can’t afford great Bordeaux, so I’ll buy a Riedel sommelier tasting glass which will improve the taste of cheaper Bordeaux. Now this glass retails for £90, which is about $150 per glass. And unfortunately, as he said, it’s about the size of a baby’s head. Colossal. If I’ve got people around for dinner and I sit at the end of the table and everyone else has a normal wine glass, I look like a complete plonker, he notes. I’d love to sit there and say, oh, this is magnificent. And they’re going to think, what an idiot. So unfortunately, this glass doesn’t get much use. It does enhance the taste of Bordeaux. There’s no doubt about it. But I’m so embarrassed sitting there drinking out of this thing that’s the size of a melon, it doesn’t get much use.

Natalie MacLean 00:47:34 And number three. Why do wine labels matter? And should the label’s aesthetic be part of every wine review? Charles and Paul mentioned wine labels because they think they are ignored by most wine writers. Guilty. And they’re terribly important for two reasons. Firstly, because they’re about the only marketing that most bottles of wine have. We go into the shops, that’s all we can see the labels. Second, if you’re setting your table for dinner, you’ve invested in the table, the dishware, the cutlery, the glasses, the napkins to set up a beautiful table scape. Why would you put a bottle of wine on the table, however it tastes, that looks terrible. Wine critics should always say what the label looks like, they say, and whether it looks good on the table. I have to agree, although I am not going to start adding label reviews to every review, but it’s something that I need to think about.

Natalie MacLean 00:48:00 In the show notes, you’ll find the full transcript of my conversation with Charles and Paul. links to their websites and books, the video versions of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube live, and where you can order my book online no matter where you live. If you missed episode 244, go back and take a listen. I chat about whether you should buy wines based on competition medals with Dr. Winnie Bowman, Cape Wine Master. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Winnie Bowman 00:49:02 That’s what’s interesting for me about competitions, is that I taste different flavours. It expands my own tasting memory for when I taste South African varieties. It also reminds me of the quality of our wines, and whether we are actually on a par with the world.

Natalie MacLean 00:49:22 You don’t wear the same perfume every day or you accommodate to it, sort of cellar palate. You’re trying different flavours, scents, aromas.

Natalie MacLean 00:49:34 You won’t want to miss next week when we chat with the power couple of Canadian winemaking. Peter Gamble and Anne Sperling, who are partners in life and in work. They have so many stories to share from their 40 year career making wine at some of the country’s best wineries, including Sperling Vineyards, Malavoire, Southbrook, Stratus, Ravine, Benjamin Bridge, Lightfoot and Wolfville, Versasdo – that’s in Argentina, by the way, the rest are Canadian – On Seven, Lailey, Stonebridge Vineyards and Dobbin Estate. They’ll join us from their home in Niagara. If you liked this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell a friend about the podcast this week, especially someone you know who would be interested in learning more about how to buy wine. It’s easy to find the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. Just tell them to search for Natalie MacLean Wine on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favourite podcast app, or they can listen to my show on my website at nataliemaclean.com/podcast.

Natalie MacLean 00:50:36 Email me if you have a sip, tip, question, or if you’d like to win one of seven copies of books that we have to give away. I’d also love to hear your thoughts on this episode, or if you’ve read my book or are listening to it. Email me at [email protected]. In the show notes, you’ll also find a link to take the free online food and wine pairing class with me, called The Five Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever at nataliemaclean.com. And that’s all in the show notes at nataliemaclean.com/341. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week, perhaps a wine you bought based solely on a beautiful label. You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at nataliemaclean.com. Meet me here next week. Cheers!

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