Why Should You Try Brazil’s Serra Gaucha Wines and Visit This Stunning Region?

Natalie MacLean 00:00:00 Why is Serra Gaucha the best place to start exploring Brazilian wine, and what is this stunning region look like? If you’d like to visit which grape varieties thrive in Brazil, and which ones are different from those we find in North America? And what’s happening with wine culture in Brazil? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in part two of our chat with Tuffy Maier, author of the terrific new book Wines of Brazil. You don’t need to have listened to part one from last week first, but if you missed it, go back and have a listen after you finish this one. By the end of our conversation, you’ll also discover the story behind Casa Virens, Purple Cow and what the tasting experience was like. How Brazilian wine law defines noble wine. The Brazilian wood used for barrel aging and how it impacts wines. What it means for a wine from anywhere to have a foxy aroma. I often hear here that the one message Tiffy would like to share with international wine lovers about Brazilian wines.

Natalie MacLean 00:01:05 I mean, this conversation made me want to go to Brazil. What to fix for the future of the Brazilian wine industry. And who two feet would like to share a bottle of wine with? And I know, yes, I should not Andersons with the preposition, but this was a really fascinating guest. He named. Do you have a thirst to learn about wine?

Natalie MacLean 00:01:31 Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie McLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:10 Welcome to episode 355 on Global’s Morning Show. We chatted about wine classes because, well, it’s that time of the year. Back to school for the kids. But what about the adults? So if you have a thirst to learn more about wine, you might be considering taking a wine course.

Natalie MacLean 00:02:28 But how do you choose which one is right for you and what exactly will you learn? Wine is such a versatile subject. Whether you want to skip along the surface like a flat rock over a lake, or and just determine the styles you want to drink, or you want to take the deep dive into viticulture, terroir and winemaking science. Selecting the right class for you depends on your goals. So question number one why even take a wine course, a structured course while there’s plenty of free content online, it’s often incomplete. A wine column from a newspaper may tell you about one grape or a few wines, but it’s not a holistic approach. You can also listen to podcasts. Hint, hint I guess you’re already listening. They help, but they’re not organized in a progressive manner that take you from the fundamentals to advanced levels of knowledge. You can also spend hours hunting and pecking for information online, just as you might for free videos showing you how to do core exercises for your abs, versus taking a fitness class led by a trusted expert who helps you go from your current level of knowledge or fitness to the next one with a coherent program.

Natalie MacLean 00:03:45 So let’s talk about what might be your goals in wanting to take a wine course. Number one socialize and meet others. Hey, wine’s fun, so if you want to meet other people through a common love of wine. Or maybe you want to find a new hobby that you and a friend or partner can pursue together without a big time commitment. You could start with a one off class offered by recreational departments, local liquor stores, wineries and restaurants, including winemaker dinners and and winery tasting room classes. You can also book a wine tasting guide to come to your home and lead you and your friends through an informal tasting. While I no longer do this personally, I can recommend folks who do do it so the time is usually a couple of hours. The cost anywhere from $50 for wine samples and instruction only to say $150 or more for a winemaker led multi-course dinner with wine. These classes might focus on learning about one type of wine, such as comparing Merlot from different regions to understand how location affects flavor or other aspects.

Natalie MacLean 00:04:54 Let’s say your goal number two is to increase personal enjoyment and knowledge. You want to become more knowledgeable as a drinker and increase your personal enjoyment of it, while learning how to maybe pair it with food. So you might seek out a 5 to 10 week introductory course like those offered by community colleges through continuing education departments. Often these are offered one evening a week for 2 to 3 hours. Online courses now offer similar content to these and involve real time online video instruction and interaction. The advantage, of course, is not having to drink and drive, even though you really technically should be spitting those samples people. But who really does? You don’t have to get a babysitter or pay for parking. This is also an attractive option for those who live in smaller towns where wine courses aren’t offered. The time is usually 15 to 30 hours over 5 to 10 weeks. College courses usually range from between 600 and $1000. Online courses are usually half that price for the same time period in content. At this level, you learn the basics of pairing wine and food using different wine styles, perhaps a crisp chardonnay and elegant Pinot noir and a bold Cabernet Sauvignon.

Natalie MacLean 00:06:08 All right. Number three, perhaps your goal is personal knowledge, but you want to go beyond just the basics. So if you want to take your personal knowledge further than that so that you can plan gastro vacations or maybe host an informal wine tasting with your friends, you don’t want to become a sommelier, but you have a thirst for more than just the basics. Often you can build on continuing education college courses as many do offer, like anywhere from 6 to 8 different courses, without requiring you to complete them all again. Online courses have this same flexibility the time 15 to 30 hours, usually over a 5 to 10 week period. Post intro college courses usually range from $1,000 and higher. Online courses again come in about half the price for the same time period in content. Here you might want to do a deeper dive into particular wine regions, or exploring different areas within the same region and what they produce in terms of different wines. Gold number four professional development. So if you dream of working in the wine industry, such as being a sommelier or wine importer, you’ll want a more comprehensive program.

Natalie MacLean 00:07:20 Often, you can still continue with those college courses to achieve a diploma and become a sommelier. These programs usually offer both full and part time study. There are also certification granting organizations, such as the Master of Wine or Master Sommelier Program, that require years of study. Thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars and difficult exams with notoriously low pass rates of less than 10%. Boy, what a pep talk that is. Hey, still, some self-described pathological optimists will pursue these designations because they are prestigious as well. There are degree granting programs in oenology and viticulture from universities across the country and abroad, requiring four years of study plus work terms or stages at wineries. There are also wine MBA programs in regions like Bordeaux and Sonoma. These do take years to complete and again, tens of thousands of dollars. I’ve always felt that wine could be the organizing hub for a liberal arts degree. Boy, wouldn’t that be popular on campus and with spokes emanating out for courses in culture, science, geography, history, commerce, art, religion and philosophy? Because wine connects to almost every facet of human endeavor.

Natalie MacLean 00:08:40 I have a Bachelor of Wine with a specialty in Merlot. Anyway, so back to online courses because I do think they offer the best of both worlds. They’re accessible to everyone no matter where you live or what kind of mobility you have. They are more comprehensive than a one off class, but not as technical and time consuming as, say, a master of wine or those college courses. Multiple courses. Plus, there’s no drinking than driving home. Many students take courses together with a spouse or partner and treat it like date night at home. One course fee, two students. I’ve seen this over and over again with the students who take my online course called the Wine Smart Course, a full bodied framework to taste, buy and pair wine like a pro. And yes, of course I’m biased. But you know, I’ve done all the things. I’ve taken the different options. I’m not a master of wine, but you know, I’ve taken the college programs and other winemaker dinners, etc. now I teach, so most of those who take this course want to become the go to wine expert among their friends or family or colleagues, business colleagues, those who work in the wine industry who take it are looking for more in-depth learning on food and wine pairing, because often that’s not offered by the courses I’ve previously mentioned.

Natalie MacLean 00:09:58 Plus food and wine pairing. This is the fun side of wine. So to wrap it up, factors to consider when choosing a wine course. Number one, the structure and breadth of the course to the history and credentials of the instructor. Number three the reputation of the organization as a whole. Did I mention I’ve won a lot of awards? Never mind. Number four the pass rate for full completion of the program. Whether you’re looking to socialize over wine, enhance your personal enjoyment, dive deeper into wine knowledge, or pursue professional development, there is a wine class that fits your goals, timeline, and budget. So if you are curious about my online course, you can take a free sample class with me called the five Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever at Natalie McLean class. And that’s all in the show notes at Natalie McLean 355. Five. You’ll also find me on Instagram at Natalie McLean wine. Back to today’s episode. Two of you are going to win a copy of Tuffy Meyer’s terrific new book, A Wines of Brazil.

Natalie MacLean 00:11:06 This is a beautiful book with lots of color photos. If you’d like to win a copy or maybe give it as a gift, email me and let me know you’d like to win. It doesn’t matter where you live, I’ll choose two winners randomly from those who contact me at Natalie at Natalie mclean.com. In other bookish news, if you’ve read the paperback or e-book or listening to the audiobook of my memoir, Wine Witch on Fire Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, defamation, and Drinking Too Much, a national bestseller and one of Amazon’s best books of the year. I would love to hear from you at Natalie at Natalie mclean.com. I’d be happy to send you personally signed bookplates. I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers worldwide at Natalie McLean. Com. 355. Five. Okay, on with the shoe.

Natalie MacLean 00:12:00 You also note one winery, Casa virens. Purple cow. As a real oddity, it’s a single barrel of wine that’s constantly added to and not sold, but rather reserved for visitors.

Natalie MacLean 00:12:13 Did you taste from that barrel?

Tufi Meyer 00:12:16 I did, I was so very well received by Massimo Veronesi, owner. He has his single barrel, of which he calls Purple Cow. I don’t know exactly why he keeps filling it and removing some wine to offer to his visitors just for visitors. It sells nothing of it. When I was there, I tasted a wine. But if you go there now, the wine would be different because you had every time. When I was there, it was very interesting. It reminded me of, say, Bagneux or. Or the wine? A sweet wine left for dessert.

Natalie MacLean 00:12:53 Wine.

Tufi Meyer 00:12:54 Beans and those beans and those buttons and miles of wine is completely dry. Bone dry.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:00 That is unusual.

Tufi Meyer 00:13:01 Very, very unusual, considering that there is white wine, pink wine and red wine mixed there.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:10 It reminds.

Tufi Meyer 00:13:10 Me of the interesting.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:11 Sherry blending system blending off, although he’s not blending, but he’s kind of adding and taking away.

Tufi Meyer 00:13:18 Yeah, that’s so good. Yeah, yeah.

Tufi Meyer 00:13:19 So good. Compare with this. It’s a stack of sherry, although he has just a one barrel, not a solera.

Natalie MacLean 00:13:27 Yeah. And you also talk about I’m not going to pronounce this correctly. The wine. Brazilian wine. Oh there you go. Very specific Brazilian wine law. Is there any particular law you find unusual or one that might surprise us?

Tufi Meyer 00:13:45 Let me justify why. Because this fruit. Is this only in Brazil. And then anything that we have. Only here we go. Oh, is that one of those things in law is one category of wine that law defines as vineyard or noble wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:04 Okay.

Tufi Meyer 00:14:04 But since nobility has nothing at all to do for, say, with Noble Road, there’s nothing about botrytis, and there is nothing about quality to or nobility from quality. It’s just that the wine has 14% alcohol or more than that, and it’s called as the new noble or noble.

Natalie MacLean 00:14:23 Noble wine for being high alcohol. Yeah, it’ll make you feel like a noble or aristocratic.

Tufi Meyer 00:14:30 Such a nobility. Really?

Natalie MacLean 00:14:32 That’s odd. And can you share a specific example of a Brazilian wood that brings out different notes? You describe some Brazilian oak aged woods as offering charming, slightly bitter tang. Or that raises the black fruit notes in reds. So are they using native forests? Native woods for their barrel aging?

Tufi Meyer 00:14:54 Yeah. Few people. It’s not a widespread practice that some Indologists are doing research on these. And one of them, Gaspar de sumo, which is a Frenchman. He has a winery in Campagna gaucha. He uses, for instance, a barrosa, which is one of our woods to mature Sauvignon blanc, and this imparts some an agreeable bitter tang at the finish of the wine, without imparting any oaky characters. The wine is not strong in aromas. He also has a wine made from Cepeda IV, which he ages in another wood. And it’s quite interesting to bring forward the fruit character of IV, which is usually not very fruity. There are some other people doing such a research, but this is a work in progress.

Tufi Meyer 00:15:47 Okay, we must wait.

Natalie MacLean 00:15:49 Yes. Like all good things. Now you seem like you’re mentioning some grapes here. So let’s dive into that. Because you say Brazil cannot be accused of monotony when it comes to grape varieties. You have 120 different Vitis vinifera grapes and more than 40 Vetus labrusca grapes. Can you highlight some of the leading white grapes and red grapes that are popular in the country, or do well for grape quality wines?

Tufi Meyer 00:16:16 Well here, like in Argentina, in the United States, Canada, or Chile, European grapes are the most successful for Chardonnay, Sauvignon blanc, Pinot noir, Syrah, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc and these are the most successful grapes so far. But we also have for making our initial wines varieties developed here in Brazil. The most successful so far is Lorena, which you will not find anywhere else Embraer developed a crossing with the white grape. Very aromatic, very interesting. Muscat like or reminds us of the roots terminal. It’s very successful here in growing in popularity. Planted varieties are growing fast.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:04 And how about a red grape? A native red grape that leads.

Tufi Meyer 00:17:07 Well, Brazil has tried to develop some exclusive red grapes, but so far not with very good results. So you won’t find red grapes that are equivalent to Lorena. For instance, you must content if content yourself with grapes from other countries, but we have a lot of them. Much more than what I said.

Natalie MacLean 00:17:31 Okay, okay. Yeah, it seems there’s quite a variety. You mentioned the importance of sparkling wine. Are they made from the traditional grapes Pinot noir, Pinot Meunier and Chardonnay?

Tufi Meyer 00:17:42 Well, many does not exist here, but Pinot Noir Chardonnay is a mainstay of our traditional method wines. Sparkling wine made in the image of champagne, for instance. But for tank method, there is a lot of other grapes like Riesling Italico and other in Muscat. Of course, some of our most successful sparkling wines are sweet wines with low alcohol and high freshness and very aromatic from Muscat grapes.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:11 Right, right. And the wine culture in Brazil, just while we’re talking about that and you’re talking about popularity, is the wine culture itself very vibrant? Like you noted that sales are on the uptick even with younger generations, which is surprising because in North America and I would say probably Europe too.

Natalie MacLean 00:18:31 Generation Z, the youngest there, like not drinking wine as much as previous generations were. What’s what’s happening with wine culture in Brazil and why?

Tufi Meyer 00:18:42 I would say that the wine consumption is growing, Owing, although a little slowly. We would like to be faster, but with pandemics, for instance, we would be almost increased by half our wine consumption. After pandemic, it lowered a bit. But we are drinking wine more than ever. I presume this is because wine is fashionable. Wine is very good to use with food and people were curious about wine. Wine education is progressing. Authors may explain this situation and our national wine industry is growing too.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:24 Yeah. And was the traditional drink of Brazil? Was it like pisco or something like before wine caught on? Was there other spirits or drinks that were more popular?

Tufi Meyer 00:19:36 Yeah, we have a large consumption of a spirit named cachaca, which is made from cane sugar. And people drink very much beer here, too.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:45 Two are.

Tufi Meyer 00:19:46 A lot of.

Natalie MacLean 00:19:47 Beer. Lots of beer. Okay, I’ll bring on the wine. So, back to the wines you mentioned. House wines. Vino de Mesa. As often having peculiar foxy aromas. I hear that term a lot. Foxy. Maybe you can tell us what it means to you. Because I love to get people’s definitions of what does that smell like? Fox? Like a real fox? Or are you referring to something different?

Tufi Meyer 00:20:12 Yeah, this is a term for a say for wine geeks. You can find it in wine books. Fox is an aroma or smell, but for, say, I’ve never smelled a real fox. Let me be clear about this. But this is always caused by a substance named Mateo. And translate. And it remains the same for or wet for. And it’s typical of labrusca grapes like Concord, for instance, which exists in the United States, or our Isabella or Isabella. The wines made from such grapes have this folksy character, but you won’t find it in vinifera wines,

Natalie MacLean 00:20:55 Okay.

Natalie MacLean 00:20:57 Wet floor. Like wet indoor floor. Like you’ve just washed the floor.

Tufi Meyer 00:21:02 Oh. Excuse me, I mentioned my my pronunciation is not good. It’s far f u r f for.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:09 Sorry.

Natalie MacLean 00:21:09 Yes. You know, that’s good. As I said before, we started this. Your English is excellent. Far better than my Portuguese or Brazilian, so thank you. Wet fur. So wet fur. Yes, Foxy. That makes sense. Even though both of us have never smelled a fox and probably never will. But with the wet fur. Okay, now you say Brazil does not produce raisins. Does Brazil make dessert wines or sweet wines?

Tufi Meyer 00:21:33 Yes, we do, but not many. O the other hand, we have got a lot of sweet sparkling wines from Muscat, as I said before. But other dessert wines Lines are hair here from raisins. Almost known because we. We really don’t. Don’t produce raisins here. And I’m curious to know why. Because we have places in the country where the climate is arid enough, dry enough to make raisin production possible.

Tufi Meyer 00:22:02 But we don’t have them.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:03 Okay. Okay.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:05 And you also mentioned that some wine names in Brazil are linked to literary works or local expressions. Can you share a couple of examples with us?

Tufi Meyer 00:22:14 Well, there is a very well known Brazilian composer, Milton Nascimento. One of his most well-known songs is named Maria Maria. This is the name of a winery, a winery near near my town, and all their wines are named after women from their family, or from history, or from people they want to pay homage to. It’s interesting too. There is a book shopper in the South. He also has a winery, and he names his wines after literary characters like Alice in Wonderland or Girl with a Pearl earring and so on. But there is much more.

Natalie MacLean 00:22:57 Okay, okay, cool.

Tufi Meyer 00:22:59 Wine naming deserves studied. It’s very interesting what people put on the label.

Natalie MacLean 00:23:03 There’s another PhD. You describe. you can correct me on this. Sarah Gaucha as Brazil’s biggest region. Most traditional wine region. Can you describe what this region is like, what it kind of looks like, and where it is?

Tufi Meyer 00:23:22 Well, this is a, hilly, almost mountainous region north of the capital of Uganda, the south state in the south.

Tufi Meyer 00:23:31 And it was to there that the first Italian immigrants arrived and and settled them themselves. They perceived, as I said before, as small pieces of land called Lotus and developed the arrogant culture that it has and a long tradition of winemaking. It is a very beautiful region, so green, so fresh, so cool and with a very well developed to this structure. It’s certainly the first region in Brazil where you should go when you start to knowing our minds go to Saragossa.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:08 And what would we do there, like our wineries open to visit, how would we plan a trip there?

Tufi Meyer 00:24:14 Almost every winery has a tasting room and there are open to visitors. There’s a very great number of people who go there, and especially on weekends or on holidays. Hotels and other things to do like historical tours. So much to eat. It’s a very pretty regional and very well-organized. Good restaurants, hotels, good towns to see and not far from from the state capital.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:42 Oh, that sounds convenient in terms of flying in.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:45 And then.

Tufi Meyer 00:24:45 Yes, quite convenient. You can fly to Porto Alegre and then you’ll drive 100km. Not much. North and north.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:53 There. You’re there. Wow. Okay.

Natalie MacLean 00:24:55 And you describe the Merlot there as being a style of its own. But that is classical Bordeaux like, rather than the Napa Merlot like the wines of that region.

Tufi Meyer 00:25:08 Yep. So how’s the climate? Much more like Bordeaux than like Napa. Napa’s. Warmer, drier. And so Napa. Those are more plush or grape or more alcoholic. They have a full body and not that say, how goes I remember those are much more like Bordeaux savoury with quite a good structure of tannins and acidity. Very good for food. That’s why I said they are more like old herbs than Napa.

Natalie MacLean 00:25:40 Yes. And what about tonight as a grape and wine? Is that important in Brazil?

Tufi Meyer 00:25:46 Yeah, it’s very important. More in Companhia Gaucha, which is a region near the border with Uruguay, but otherwise has plenty of China. It’s the most well known, the better known grape from Uruguay.

Tufi Meyer 00:26:02 You pass the border in the new wine company revolution. You have done that to the very good wine of the solid wines to have with high school, with barbecue, which is a strong tradition here.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:14 Churrasco. Is that what you said?

Tufi Meyer 00:26:16 Barbecue? Yeah.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:18 Okay. Are they very tannic? Because the origin of the word I think refers to tannic. Yeah.

Tufi Meyer 00:26:25 Yes, but not as much tannic as, say, Madeira and from from France. The tannins are a bit softer, but they are very clear. And the wine needs some time to soften this structure. But with barbecue it will go very well. The meat has so much protein. It needs ten.

Natalie MacLean 00:26:45 Yeah, absolutely. And you describe San Paulo as a cosmopolitan city, a melting pot of different cultures and influences. So this would also be a great city to visit as well.

Tufi Meyer 00:26:58 For sure. Sao Paulo is our largest city, and it has everything there from all parts of the world came people to Sao Paulo. You can eat food from anywhere there.

Tufi Meyer 00:27:11 And there’s a lot of good restaurants with very complete wine charts. Brazilian or worldly. There’s nothing. No lack of things to do in Sao Paulo. A real melting pot.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:24 And how far is Sao Paulo from the region? Sarah. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

Tufi Meyer 00:27:30 Well, not so far by plane. It takes one hour and some minutes to go from Sao Paulo to near Chicago.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:40 Okay, so.

Tufi Meyer 00:27:41 Barker, it will take two days, but my plan is not so far.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:45 Oh that’s.

Tufi Meyer 00:27:45 Great. So it’s easy if you arrive at San Paulo and take another plane and go to the zoo and go.

Natalie MacLean 00:27:53 Spend some time in the city and then go to the wine region. That sounds like fun.

Tufi Meyer 00:27:57 Yeah. And Sao Paulo is not far from here. Yo, dude, this is a famous city. Rio de Janeiro is the city.

Natalie MacLean 00:28:04 Okay. Okay. You mentioned Terra Lessa. The ziplining over Fortaleza Canyon in Canberra. Do Sul. Beyond the thrill of doing this, the breathtaking landscape of these regions, what would you see as you did a zipline over that region? What would it look like below you?

Tufi Meyer 00:28:23 Well, this place is all very archangels.

Tufi Meyer 00:28:27 There’s a single wineries there, which is quite recent and there’s not. They are not making wine from their grapes planted on not very peaty soils. There’s a lot of beads there, but the region is not far from Sahaja Usha and you can go from one place to another, but there it’s a wild country and very cold. It’s the coldest part in Uganda, so there is no there. It’s a beautiful place to go, but not so much for wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:29:00 All right. You also mention in your book the heavy Taxation on wines. We suffer from it in Canada as well. And the complex bureaucracy. Do you think that’s had a big influence in terms of the development, maybe the slowing of the development of the Brazilian wine industry? And what do you think needs to change.

Tufi Meyer 00:29:22 What we would like to be changed? It is very difficult to change, which is precisely heavy taxation, especially today when our economy is not saved in a very good state, it’s impossible for the government to renounce the taxes.

Tufi Meyer 00:29:38 We They have no hope of this happening, right?

Natalie MacLean 00:29:41 Right. Yeah.

Tufi Meyer 00:29:42 Morocco is ingrained into our all of our government instances. Students do take a lot of time for this to ameliorate. I’m a little say hopeless about two subjects, but it would be very good if we had lower taxes, allowing the wines to be less expensive.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:03 Agreed. That’s what we’re fighting here in Canada as well. It’s like a really valuable agricultural product. And yet they treat it like, I don’t know, like gasoline, fossil fuels or cigarettes or it’s like, why are you doing this?

Tufi Meyer 00:30:17 Let’s hurry up. Yeah. It’s not. It’s food. Yes. Wine is food.

Natalie MacLean 00:30:21 Yes, absolutely. You say Brazilian wines deserve more exposure. What’s one message you hope to convey to international wine lovers and professionals about Brazilian wines that they may not already know or appreciate?

Tufi Meyer 00:30:38 Well, I think that precisely this. They are not known and appreciated. It takes some more curiosity, your exploring spirit, to go to Nowhere wines and get contact with them.

Tufi Meyer 00:30:53 Read my book. I hope so, and after knowing more and tasting more if they are tasted, I’m sure they will be better known because they’re good.

Natalie MacLean 00:31:03 Well, there’s the challenge. Thinking about the future. Where do you see Brazilian wine heading? The wine industry. What do you think or hope for it to be in five years? Ten years or beyond?

Tufi Meyer 00:31:15 Well, for someone who accompanies the Brazilian wine industry for decades like me, it’s amazing how we have improved our wines every year. Get better. I hope this trend will go on. Our wines will improve much more in the following years and as such they will deserve more and more. More consumption, more knowledge and more exporting. We Brazilians also know our wines so badly we should do an effort to know them better, not only for people abroad, right?

Natalie MacLean 00:31:51 Absolutely. Now, I know your book is new, but is there anything that you would add to a future edition, an updated edition, or anything you’ve discovered since?

Tufi Meyer 00:32:02 Well, I think that no book is updated on its publishing.

Tufi Meyer 00:32:06 Yeah, a lot of things are always happening in line here in a in a true state of flux. Yes, you’ll hear about new wineries almost every day, and a new edition will certainly include more producers.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:19 Yes. That’s true. The minute a book is published, it’s out of date, but yours is well worth the read.

Tufi Meyer 00:32:26 It’s unavoidable. You must conform to this.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:28 That’s true. So if you could share a bottle of wine with any person in the world, living or dead, outside the wine industry, Who would that be?

Tufi Meyer 00:32:38 Hard to say, but. Well, perhaps if we include dead people, perhaps a composer, a Gustav Mahler.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:47 okay.

Tufi Meyer 00:32:48 I would take him, perhaps to a, say, hotel in Vienna. I have some limitations to order.

Natalie MacLean 00:32:57 I know the bills on me. So you order whatever you want for Mahler.

Tufi Meyer 00:33:02 Be together. Would sip very slowly a bottle of a very old Tokay. Essential. No food at all, That would be a company accompanied by meditation.

Tufi Meyer 00:33:15 And I would ask him about his thoughts when he composes. Does lead from there. I heard such a beautiful song cycle. Many lyrics there from Chinese poems are on wine and online in life and on wine and death. this. It’s a very beautiful music that I would like very much. What Mahler had in his head, in his head when he composed.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:45 That’s.

Tufi Meyer 00:33:45 Lovely.

Natalie MacLean 00:33:46 And Tokio sincere. Is that a Hungarian sweet wine?

Tufi Meyer 00:33:50 Yes. One of the sweetest wines that you may taste, but with such a high acidity and low alcohol that you can taste it forever. And it it lingers forever on your tongue, in your mouth, and of course in our memories.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:06 Are just like Mahler.

Tufi Meyer 00:34:08 I’m for unforgettable.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:11 That’s. That’s lovely.

Tufi Meyer 00:34:13 Pity it’s not Brazilian.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:15 Right? If you could put up a billboard in downtown San Paulo, what would you say on it?

Tufi Meyer 00:34:23 Drink more Brazilian wine, please.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:25 Well, there you go. Campaign for the national wines. Yeah, that sounds great. And this has been wonderful to see as we wrap up our conversation, is there anything you wanted to mention that we have not covered?

Tufi Meyer 00:34:37 Oh, I just thank you so very much for this.

Tufi Meyer 00:34:40 My pleasure. It’s very good to know you and to have such a nice conversation. You’ve opened up this good to talk about wine.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:46 Absolutely. Yeah. It brings everyone together who has a passion for it. And you’ve really opened my eyes. Yes. And taste buds. Now for Brazilian wines. So I must try some.

Tufi Meyer 00:34:56 I hope.

Natalie MacLean 00:34:57 So. Yes, absolutely. All right. Toothy. You have incredible depth of knowledge on Brazilian wines. Thank you for sharing it with me and us. Everyone who’s listening, I’m going to say goodbye, but I hope that next time we can share a glass or a bottle of Brazilian wine together.

Tufi Meyer 00:35:13 Okay.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:14 Thank you. Cheers. Bye bye.

Tufi Meyer 00:35:16 Cheers.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:22 Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with two feet. Here are my takeaways. Number one. Why is Sara Gaucha the best place to start exploring Brazilian wine? And what does this stunning region look like if you want to visit. As Tuffy says, it’s a hilly, almost mountainous region north of the capital of Rio Grande in the south.

Natalie MacLean 00:35:42 So it was there that the first Italian immigrants arrived and settled themselves. They received small pieces of land and developed agriculture, and of course, that involved traditional winemaking. It’s a beautiful region, green, fresh, cool, with a well-developed tourist infrastructure. And it’s the first region in Brazil, he says. Where you should go if you really want to learn about Brazilian wines. Almost every winery has a tasting room and they’re welcoming to visitors. Lots of people go there on weekends and holidays. There’s good restaurants, hotels and lots to see. And of course, it’s not far from the state capital. Number two, which grape varieties thrive in Brazil and how are they different from other grapes? Tufa explains that like Argentina, the US, Canada, Chile, European grapes are the most successful in Brazil. Think Chardonnay. Sauvignon blanc. Pinot noir. Syrah. Cabernet Sauvignon franc. And these are the most successful grapes so far. They also make their own vinifera wines. Varieties that were developed in Brazil. The most successful so far is Lorena or Lorena, which you will not find anywhere else.

Natalie MacLean 00:36:53 It they developed it as a cross. It’s a white grape, very aromatic. Muscat like. Reminds him of Gewirtz demeanor. Very successful, growing in popularity. Brazil has also tried to develop exclusive red grapes, but so far, he says, not with great results. And number three, what’s happening with the wine culture in Brazil? Wine consumption is growing too, he says, although slowly. But with the pandemic, they increased by 50% on consumption. After the pandemic, it lowered a bit. That’s very typical of most countries, but they are drinking more than ever. Wine has become fashionable, it’s great with food and people are curious. Wine education is progressing and the national wine industry is growing. And as we know, when wine industry grows, so does its wine culture. In the show notes, you’ll find the full transcript of my conversation with Two Feet links to his website, the video versions of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube live, and where you can order my book online now, no matter where you live.

Natalie MacLean 00:37:56 If you missed episode 64, go back and take a listen. I chat about going around the world in 80 wines with Mike Veith. I’ll share our short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Mike Veseth 00:38:09 I learned that there was such a thing as a wine economist from a famous winemaker. My wife Sue and I were newlyweds, and it was so long ago that people without a lot of money to take a budget vacation in Napa Valley. On the way back in the last day, we were driving up the Silverado Trail and I saw this name. If I knew more about wines then that, I would have recognized that it was the name of a winery that was kind of famous for that judgment of Paris that had gone on before. So we pulled in for one last tasting, and, you know, he pulled out the forks and poured the bottles, and he began to talk. He learned that I was an economist, and suddenly he began to ask me very serious questions. He wanted to know about inflation rates.

Mike Veseth 00:38:53 They were moving up and interest rates, and it really made a difference to him because his business involved a lot of capital investment, involved a lot of time for the vineyards of aging. He really wanted to know when these wines were ready. Would consumers be there could be a good situation to sell them.

Natalie MacLean 00:39:14 You won’t want to miss next week when we chat with Alex Moltmann, professor emeritus of earth sciences at Abattoir University in Wales, United Kingdom, will chat about his new book, Taste the Limestone, Smell the Slate. A geologist wanders through the world of wine. He has some marvelous stories and his science is so relatable and gettable. I really love chatting with him. If you liked this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell a friend about the podcast this week. Don’t leave me alone here, please. I need more friends, especially someone you know who be interested in learning more about the wines of Brazil. It’s easy to find the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, just tell them to search for that title or my name.

Natalie MacLean 00:40:00 Natalie McLean Wine on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favorite podcast app. Or they can listen to the show on my website at Natalie McLean. Email me if you have a tip, question, or would like to win one of two copies of the books I have to give away. I’d also love to hear your thoughts on this episode, or if you’ve read my book or listening to it. Email me at Natalie at Natalie McLean. Com and remember, there is a free online food and wine pairing class to take with me called the five Wine and Food pairing mistakes that can ruin your dinner and how to fix them forever. Happily Ever After at Natalie McLean. That’s all in the show notes at Natalie mclean.com/355. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a wine from Brazil’s beautiful Sara Gaucho Legion.

Natalie MacLean 00:41:00 You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie McLean.

Natalie MacLean 00:41:16 And meet me here next week. Cheers.