Pairing Wine and Cannabis with the Herb Sommelier Jamie Evans (Video)

Our guest this evening is known as The Herb Somm and she is an educator, event host, and writer specializing in gourmet cannabis, food, recipes and wine.

Born and raised in California, she earned her degree in Wine and Viticulture, with a concentration in Wine Business at California Polytechnic University. She also studied enology at the University of Adelaide, Australia and The Engineering School of Enology, Switzerland.

She’s been featured in the San Francisco Chronicle, Los Angeles Times, POPSUGAR, Mother Jones, Edible San Francisco, MSN Lifestyle and was named one of the Top 40 under 40 Influencers by Wine Enthusiast Magazine.

And she joins me live now from Los Angeles: Welcome to the Sunday Sipper Club Jamie Evans!

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Photo Credit The Herb Somm Zkittlez at Aplenglow Farms




Jamie Evans_Wine Enthusiast_Photo Cred Scott McDermott

Jamie Evans is the founder of The Herb Somm, a cannabis blog and lifestyle brand that is focused on the gourmet side of the cannabis industry.

She is an educator, host, and writer specializing in cannabis, food, recipes, wine, and the cannaculinary world.

In addition to her work in the cannabis industry, Jamie has over ten years of wine industry experience. Having represented a wide array of organizations and wineries, she is best known for producing high-end events and developing topnotch public relations, marketing, and hospitality programs. Jamie is also a contributor to POPSUGAR and MARY Magazine specializing in cannabis recipes and cannabis lifestyle pieces. She was also recently named as one of Wine
Enthusiast Magazine’s Top 40 Under 40 Tastemakers in 2018.

Born and raised in Truckee, CA, Jamie’s roots extend back to South Dakota farm families. She developed a love for wine and agriculture while earning her degree in Wine and Viticulture, with a concentration in Wine Business at Cal Poly,
San Luis Obispo. As an avid traveler, she expanded her knowledge and explored different regions where she studied enology and viticulture at The University of Adelaide, Australia and The Engineering School of Enology at Changins, Switzerland.

Jamie has recently been featured in the San Francisco Chronicle, Los Angeles Times, ABC7 News, 7×7, POPSUGAR, Mother Jones, Edible San Francisco, Munchies, KQED Bay Area Bites, Clever Root, and MSN Lifestyle.




The Herb Somm’s Thursday Infused in San Francisco photo credit Chron Vivant

The Herb Somm

The Herb Somm was created in March 2017 with the goal of educating consumers and the public about cannabis, and healthy ways to incorporate herbal products into everyday life. While there is an emphasis on cannabis pairings and recipes, wellness and education are also a focus for the brand.

In March of 2018, The Herb Somm has been brought to life with Thursday Infused, a gourmet event series that highlights different chefs and edible producers in the Bay Area. These educational sessions are focused on promoting healthy and safe ways to use edibles and cannabis products. As part of our mission, The Herb Somm donates a portion of event revenues to local 501(c)(3) nonprofits that provide healthy food to the Bay Area community by creating organic,
sustainable, and high-yield urban farms and backyard gardens. Learn more at





The Herb Somm’s Terpene education for wine and cannabis pairings photo credit The Herb Somm


What was the exact moment when you realized that you wanted to become an expert on cannabis? Tell us exactly where you were? What triggered the thought? How did you feel? What was the next step you took to get going on the path?

Currently, 9 states have legalized recreational marijuna, and 30 have approved medical marijuna. In Canada, cannabis becomes legal October 17. When pot first became legal in the US, did wine drinkers flock to it or was it a different audience?


Jamie Evans with cannabis in San Francisco

Is there still stigma about cannabis being a formerly illegal drug? Fear of getting addicted?

In 2017, legal cannabis was a $9.7 billion market, and it’s expected to grow to $25 billion by 2021. What are you hearing from winemakers and distributors in the US who want to play in this space?


Sous Weed’s THC infused Oysters served at The Herb Somm’s Thursday Infused event photo credit The Herb Somm


The US giant conglomerate Constellation Brands, which represents wines such as Kim Crawford, Mondavi, Ruffino and formerly Jackson-Triggs and Inniskillin, invested $4 billion dollars in Canopy Growth Corp, a Canadian medical marijuana purveyor.

Do you predict that there will be more collaboration or competition between the wine & cannabis industries? What types of products? Weed-infused wine? Wine-flavoured weed?


Will these be a fad that will come and go like pumpkin spice?

In California, wine tourism generates $4 billion a year. Do you anticipate that legalized recreational marijuana will do the same? Will people visit grow ops like they do winery tasting rooms?


Photo Credit The Herb Somm Alpenglow Farms

Will we see restaurants with wine and cannabis lists? Herb sommeliers, like yourself?

Proposition 65, which decriminalised cannabis in California this past January, forbids almost any possible commercial pursuit involving marijuana and alcohol, just as similar laws do in the other states that have legalised pot. Does that affect what you do?


Do people who pair wine and cannabis tend not to have as many glasses of wine?

What are the similarities between wine and cannabis?


Are there appellations for weed like there are for wine?

We know terroir is extremely important for wine. How important is terroir for cannabis? How does it influence the plant?


Are there certain types of growing practices that cannabis farmers use to benefit their grows? How are they similar to wine?

What are terpenes? Can you tell us about a few primary terpenes that are found in cannabis? Do they taste bitter?


What is your approach to pairing cannabis and wine? Are you using just the edible format when pairing with wine? What dosages and types of cannabis?

Which pairings have worked well? Why did they work?


Almond Olive Oil Cake served at The Herb Somm’s Thursday Infused event photo credit Tyler Arneson

Which did not work together? Why not?

Describe the downright weirdest wine pairing you’ve ever had. Where were you? Describe the cannabis in detail and the flavours. Which wine? Did it work or not as a pairing?




Is there a higher risk of impairment when you mix two drugs?

What can cannabis learn from wine? What can wine learn from cannabis?


Jamie Evans evaluating cannabis


What was something you were wrong about as it relates to wine and cannabis?

What’s the most useful cannabis gadget you’ve come across? How did you discover it?


Photo credit Lana Vy Bloom Farms at Thursday Infused


Please give our viewers one wine and cannabis tip that they can try after cannabis is legalized. Any little ninja trick to help them improve their wine knowledge or tasting/pairing skills.

As we wrap up our conversation, what haven’t we covered that you’d like to share now?


HoneyPot’s infused honey served at The Herb Somm’s Thursday Infused event photo credit Tyler Arneson


This is where you can chat about your upcoming event ;)

How can people best get in touch with you or find you online?


Photo credit Lana Vy ThursdayInfused-22

Jamie Bothen9:59 I drink tons of wine and love food, my daughter is a trained chef from a Cordon Bleu culinary school but would not do both at a time and hubby is allergic to marijuana
Top Fan

Deborah Podurgiel52:32 the vast selection of Cannabis and that in fact wine and cannabis can be paired. But, that said, I think I am definitely a winelover! DLP *(*

Jamie Bothen20:49 never gonna happen here- lived in 7 states KY is at least 30 years behind the times- used to live in CA oh well
Top Fan

Stephen Andrews32:28 If Coke gets their paws into this they will go for the addiction. Coke a cola itself can be an addictive beverage.


John Miller24:01 Do you think the growth of the marijuana and cannabis markets will have an impact on the wine industry?
Floyd Curtis12:58 I highly recommend the Cheech and Chardonnay…
Paula Croucher43:32 Nice to know we can go beyond Doritos and brownies👍
Top Fan

Stephen Andrews38:23 Great information to night thank you Jamie.

Henry A. Liguori31:57 What about ice cream cannabis?
Henry A. Liguori47:42 wine is good for the soul combined with the sacred plant: cannabis!
Floyd Curtis25:08 What pairs best with a Chateneuf- Indica or Sativa? Asking for a friend.
Top Fan

Deborah Podurgiel28:40 HI Nats, Jamie — is there a Cannabis ‘cookbook’ that you would know of? Thank You *(*

John Lam32:33 Since cannabis heightens your taste buds, should you pick a lighter wine as opposed to a heavy one?
Top Fan

Beverly Asleson20:53 Anyone allergic to Cannabis, if so what are the symptoms?

Top Fan

Stephen Andrews25:31 Is anyone concerned about addiction?

Top Fan

Stephen Andrews33:03 I think as a society safety measures need to be put in place.


John Sisson Jr43:55 Bellissima Zero is great with fish dinner also ,stock symbol ICNB


John Sisson Jr42:26 Zero Sugar, would be great with some Bud!
Jamie Bothen15:58 so do you know why medical or legal cannibis is not allowed in all states
Jamie Bothen5:39 CBD oil is legal here but not cannabis


Top Fan

Charlotte Cadieux35:48 Will never swap Wine for cannabis… Love wine too much 🍷

Top Fan

Donnah Whitaker29:21 Hi from Ohio! Ontario’s Kacaba Winery’s 2009 Single Vineyard Syrah actually had a note of cannabis on the nose! We got a big kick out of that. Fortunately there was no flavor of cannabis on the wine. As the years passed, the “pot-nose” faded but the wine remained lovely.


Nancy Evans42:17 Cancer patients have been using cannabis to help with nausea, appetite, and sleep. More education is needed to help break down the stigma that cannabis is bad. Currently, my friend lives in Nebraska where even medical use is illegal, she orders CBD and THC products from Colorado to help with her deal with her Stage 4 cancer., yet technically she is breaking the law. Thank you, Jamie for speaking out about the benefits so that someday the stigma will change and people can have the choice/ freedom to use.

Full Transcript:

Natalie: 00:15 Do you pair wine and weed? We’re about to see cannabis
legalized in Canada on October 17th. So what’s next? Is it
cannabis cabaret, cabaret, Cabernet are, and what are the
similarities and differences between wine and cannabis? Well,
that’s exactly what we’re going to explore on the Sunday supper
club here tonight. And I’m going to refresh my screen and make
sure that you all can see and hear me. and I am going to keep
going because I know there’s always a delay. I’m Natalie
MacLean, editor of Canada’s largest one review site at, where we gather every Sunday at 6:00
PM eastern. That’s Toronto New York time to talk to the most
interesting people in the world of wine.

Natalie: 03:05 All right, so let me introduce my next guest more completely.
You’re going to really enjoy this chat with her. So she is. Our
guest this evening is known as the herb som and she is an
educator event host and writer specializing in gourmet
cannabis, food, recipes, and wine. Born and raised in California.
She earned her degree in wine and viticulture with a
concentration in the wine business at California Polytechnic
University. She also studied ecology at the University of
Adelaide, Australia and the Engineering School of enology in
Switzerland. She has been featured in the San Francisco
Chronicle, Los Angeles Times, pop sugar mother Jones Edible
San Francisco, msn lifestyle, and she was named one of the top
40 under 40 influencers by wine enthusiast magazine and she
joins me live now from Los Angeles. Welcome to the Sunday
Sipper Club,

Jamie: 04:13 Jamie Evans Hello. Hi. That’s what we did, not coordinate that.
So we are thinking along the same lines day for Rose. It’s a good day
for Rosé. background, but what got you into cannabis,
so to speak, while I’ve always been a cannabis enthusiast and in college,
I’d always just kind of recreationally or recreationally use cannabis, but
I always thought it was very similar to wine I was studying in my classes
so there was a lot of similar aromas and flavors, but I never really did the
deep dive to learn more about it, until the beginning of 2017 and I actually
witnessed a really terrible car accident and I was having a really tough time
sleeping. U, so this is is what I kinda went back to cannabis and I was using it to
sleep because I didn’t want to use the hardcore and sleeping pills
that recommend. so I use cannabis. It dramatically changed how
I was feeling. I got better sleep and it just helped me overall.
So just seeing how it benefited my life, I just was very inspired and honestly

to keep learning about it and learning about all the health benefits.

Jamie: 05:53 so then after that I attended a wine and weed gathering, is
women. Why lead,, speech in Oakland and Debbie Goldsberry,
she’s the executive director of Magnolia wellness., she was a
speaker and she was so inspiring., so after that moment I knew I
wanted to get involved in the industry, so I figured, okay, what
am I, what am I good at, what are my skills? And of course, wine
food I’m in the gourmet world were just things that I’m always
naturally gravitated towards. So I’m like, okay, how can I tie
cannabis into this? so that’s when herb som was born in March
of 2017. And I really focus just on the culinary side of cannabis
now. Okay. Awesome. You’re the perfect guest for us to be
talking to in the lead up to this legalization. So, so just to
summarize, currently nine states I believe have legalized
recreational marijuana and 30 altogether have approved
medical marijuana when pot, if I may call it that.

Jamie: 06:52 I’m not sure if all these terms are interchangeable pot.
Marijuana. Cannabis. Okay. Usually, we call it cannabis, right? I
usually say weed or cannabis. So. Okay. Alright. So when
cannabis first became legal in the United States, did blind
drinkers flock to it or was it a different audience or was there
just some overlap? I will be who kind of was attracted to cannabis.
So since I’m based in California and really know that market the
best, well in California we do have some of the best cannabis
and wine in the world at least that’s why I think. But it seems
like there is probably one of the largest crossovers between
wine cannabis consumers in California. And there’s actually a
recent study done by bds analytics, which is one of the leading
cannabis consumer insights company here in California, and they
did a study and it turns out that 72 percent of cannabis users
also drink alcohol. , so that’s quite a large number and many of
those, our wine consumers and I think cannabis consumers also tend
to be epicureans. So we really like the finer things in life as
much like the wine consumer and in California is just becoming this
mainstream product. So it seems like there are people from all
groups ages that are enjoying cannabis right now. Wow, that’s

Jamie: 09:28 Jamie. I’m so cbd is the non-psychoactive component of
cannabis.yeah. So basically there are common cannabinoids,
which kind of gives you that head high. So that’s a cannabinoid,
but then you also have cbd, which is the non-psychoactive part.
, so the thing about this as cbd can also be derived from hemp.
So maybe that’s why it’s legal is because at least to the United
States is legal in all 50 states. , so that’s why a lot of companies
here are actually taking the cbd out of hemp rather than
cannabis-derived casting.

Natalie: 10:07 .Right. So Jamie, tell us when cannabis was first legalized in
California in January, other states at different times, but you’re
in California, I was there for a while or is it still happening? Is
there a stigma to cannabis? Are People still sort of getting used to
it because of it formally an

Jamie: 11:54 illegal drug? So I think there’s still a stigma and, it seems to be a
at least to start to go away and I think this is a largely in part
to all the education that’s been coming out. I think cannabis
brands are doing such a good job of educating people about the
health benefits of cannabis, how you can incorporate it into
your daily lifestyle. And now that we’re seeing some major
headlines like a coca cola, they’re interested in getting infused
beverages. They really, I didn’t hear the future. Yes. So this
announcement came on Monday. , so they, they might be
looking at doing an infused beverage, which is huge news
because Coca Cola, as we all know, is one of the oldest, a classic
American brands. So for them to want to get involved with
cannabis, I think that’s huge. And it also, constellation is
invested with canopy growth up in Canada, which is lending

Jamie: 12:47 It was a $4,000,000,000 investment. It’s huge. So they, I think
they first invested in fall of last year and then they doubled. Are
they up to their bet a I think last month in August to another
$4,000,000,000 investment. So yeah, that’s huge. And just for
those Canadians watching constellation used to be our Tierra,
so it owns, still owns brands like Kim Crawford, Ruffino
Mondavi, Ravenswood, and when it was here in Canada as well
in own Jackson triggs . And just for some background, certainly
there’s a real strong link there between Canada and the US. But
yeah, sorry Jamie, continue. Yeah. So I think like all of these
things together are really going to help that like break that
stigma in the United States and beyond. Right. And so, you’ve
touched on this, but what are, I know you’re not a doctor and
this isn’t medical advice, but what are the medical benefits that
are discussed when it comes to cannabis?

Jamie: 13:44 , well, like I said before, cannabis can really help with sleep. It’s
great as anti stress, anti anxiety, , it really helps anti
inflammatory purposes. , so a big thing is like cbd cream, , is
really great for arthritis. , I mean there’s so many benefits for
cannabis and it really comes down to Turpines, which I know
we’re going to get to a little bit by. We will just champing at the
bit to get into turpines that I’m read to like, , especially with
cancer patients who are recovering from chemotherapy and
helps not only with pain reduction but also re stimulating. The
appetite often gets lost. Absolutely. And it helps with nausea as
well. , so it has many benefits and there’s a lot of different ways
you can use canvas as well. So you can do edibles, you could
smoke the flower you conveyed, there’s teamster drops.
Jamie: 14:39 , there’s Lotions, uh, so there’s just so many wonderful ways
you can experience the benefits of camp, my goodness. And so
dosing must be very important like what you’ve got in those
edibles and I mean it’s all new to us. These are very basic
questions, but , and I think, , the cannabis companies in
California and the United States, they’ve done a really good job
at precise dosing. , so if you’re eating an edible that animals
should be the exact dose that the company says and especially
these new laws that have come out this year who have kind of
mandated this new change, , have really helped like the quality
and the precise dosing. Wow. Okay. So, , in 2017, legal cannabis
in the United States was a nine point $7,000,000,000 market
and it’s expected to grow to $25 billion by 2021. So what are
you hearing from winemakers and distributors?

Jamie: 15:34 You’ve talked a little bit about this with constellation and a Coca
Cola. Is there anything else, like are we going to start seeing
weed infused wines or conversely, wine flavored cannabis?
Edibles, I mean, what products might we see? Yeah, well I’m in
August actually went to the wine and weed symposi which is
held in Santa Rosa. I’m, so this conference was really mentioned
bringing together the best and the brightest from the cannabis
industry and wine industry. And the main thing that I got from
that conference was there’s just a lot of curiosity. So from
winemakers and distributors, they’re really wondering how can
we get involved legally right now with cannabis? So whether
that be with tourism events, infused beverages actually have a
cool example of infused beverage. What is that? Hold it up a
little bit more. Yes. Okay. So this looks like a mini bottle of
champagne, right?

Jamie: 16:29 Yeah. But this is actually an infused cranberry drink, , that’s
been infused with five milligrams of thc and I think, you know, a
big part of what is bringing the cannabis industry together is
infused beverages. So I think this category is very exciting. I
think we will start to see, , some infused wines, but I think the
key thing here is it has to be non alcoholic. , so someone who
did a really good job at this, they’re called rebel coast winery in
California and so they made a non alcoholic thc infused
Sauvignon Blanc, so, so it was illegal to combine a wine that has
alcohol in it with cannabis then? Yeah, yeah. As the current law
states. , but if you do an infused beverage and you just have thc
and you’re selling it in a dispensary at this point, , that’s legal.
So. Okay, great.

Jamie: 18:26 I’m hopping on board so. Okay. Alright. So do you think we’re
going to see restaurant wine list also offer cannabis? I hope so.
So I’m actually right now I’m a part of a group called crop to
kitchen and we are creating a movement in San Francisco to
create canvas restaurants because right now there are no
cannabis restaurants. , and so in the future we’re really hoping
that this can be a reality. , and there’s an amazing cannabis
chefs out there who deserve a restaurant. So we’re writing
regulations right now to making some proposed laws that
hopefully will go through. And I think once we can prove that
cannabis restaurants work and people can consumeana infused food
safer and we safely and responsibly, I think after that, then
maybe we can see some lines being incorporated. , but this all
comes down to moderation. So when you’re combining the two,
, it’s very, you have to do it like go low, start slow in
Jamie: 19:27 So low start slow. Yeah. So before we get to that, because I
want to talk about the intermingling of those two tracks, so
restaurants, cannabis restaurants. So that would mean the chef
is using cannabis in various dishes the way he might. He or she
might eat truffles like inflicted with truffles, but cannabis. Okay.
Yeah. So a lot of chefs are treating cannabis. What cannabis
shops right now are treating cannabis as an ingredient. And so
it’s such a beautiful way to enhance the meal. It enhances the
flavors. It’s just a really complex plant to work with because all
the aromas and flavors. And I think it’s an amazing dining
experience if you haven’t been to infuse dinner before. So do
you find that, , I was reading a bit about this and those who
have cannabis and they have it with wine drink less wine. I think
that’s true because that goes back to the moderation and ,
Jamie: 20:23 So at least what have I, I hosted events myself, I guess Thursday
infused and what I have seen as people drink less wine, they’re
very careful and they’re using wine, , to enhance the meal and
the cannabis kind of works in that same way. And I firmly
believe that cannabis food and wine belong together. So did
they have different impacts? Like different. So I don’t know,
cannabis, my stereotype is that you get mellow, but does that
too. I don’t know. Mine was too. And , I know we’re going to
talk about Turpines, but these are really the things that make
you feel the way you feel when you conse cannabis. So, , you
may feel sleepy or you may feel mellow. , there’s also strains
that make you feel uplifted and excited. So different strains. Are
there any risks beyond, , in moderation? That’s always a risk
whether you’re talking about wine or cannabis, but is there, are
there any special risks to combining the two drugs?
Jamie: 21:22 , I think there’s risks, especially if you’re on other medications,
like I would never recommend mixing all three of those.
Certainly not right. But really, you know, if you love wine and
you’re curious about cannabis, I do recommend just doing some
experiments at your house. I’m getting familiar with the flavors
and find a strain that works for you. I mean, that’s the best thing
I can advise and everyone is so different. So it really depends on
what you know, what affects what benefits and the flavors that
really draw your attention and your own body chemistry. And as
always, whenever we talk about health related topics, this isn’t
medical advice folks, they’re not doctors, but we’re trying to
give you some informed information where you can take that in
to your doctor or a and make your own decisions.
Jamie: 22:38 So, , terpene, so you’ve, you’ve mentioned them. Now, let’s get
into them turpines. Okay. Well, I love talking about Europeans
because this is what really allows us to pair cannabis and wine. ,
so terpenes are the organic compounds that give cannabis all of
the wonderful aromas and flavors you perceive. , so there are
produced in the same gland as common cannabinoids, thc and
CBD, and they provide a wide range of health benefits. , but it’s
important to note that terpene or not just found in cannabis. So
they’re found in many herbs, different flowers, vegetables,
fruits in sex, and even wine has turpines.
Jamie: 23:18 , so it’s really interesting and that kind of gives us. The
Europeans gave us the ability to pair of flavors with ingredients
with wine and over 200 have been identified so far in cannabis,
but today we’ll kind of just talk about six common terpene, , and
I can just dive right into them right now. Absolutely explaining,
kind of give us the overview of the six main terpene. No.
Perfect. So I have these really nice glasses today filled with the
terpene. Yeah. So you’ll notice this is not cannabis in this glass.
This is lime. Yes. Lemons, limes, tangerines, grapefruits. They
have a turpine called blind the neaten. So lightening is a terpene
that gives these uplifting, energizing side effects and many
cannabis strains have laminate and them such as Tangy Lemon
Kush, , Oge Kush, which are some really popular strains out here
in California. And like I said before, these are really good.
Jamie: 24:24 It’s a great terpene for mood enhancing the side effects. , it’s a
great day time line or a great daytime terpene as well. You are
looking for something maybe for Brunch a, I would definitely
recommend a tangy. And if you’re thinking about pairing wines
with this too, so lemon lime, grapefruit, Tangerine. So these are
all common aromas and flavors that you find in white wines.
Right? Okay. Yes, absolutely. So I could see where the natural
pairing the flavor would be. Yes, exactly. So like Chardonnay,
Somnia, block, Alberico, these are all wines that would pair with
the strain that’s high in line. And you’ve got a pairing guide for
wine and cannabis. Right. Do you want to hold that up? So I got
it. I hope you can all see it. Yes, we can see it. Yep. Awesome.
And this is great because it’s almost like the aroma flavor wheel
that end noble came up with from California and folks, that’s
what you’re going to win.
Jamie: 25:22 Plus some very glossy cards that she’s produced. This is my
other card packet. So neat. Oh, I’d have just a few others. So
this is like the lie meaning card. Oh, nice. So those are great. The
back has online pairings. Food pairings affects everything you
need to know. Basically Europeans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if
you’re sharing this video and commenting, that is the package
you’re going to receive, which looks really great. So. Okay, so I
can see the flavors echoing each other. What is the next set of
Turpines that, uh, you, you describe? So I love cannabis that has
leaned a little so I don’t know what his lead alone. So Lena low
is a terpene that has floral aromas in this glass. I put lavender. ,
so I always think of Lena Lowell as a terpene. That reminds me
of being at the spot because it makes you feel very relaxed,
Jamie: 26:20 , if you’re smelling like lavender lotion, it kind of makes you feel
that same way. , and so some common strains that have leaned
a little, our lavender Oji la confidential and Amnesia Hayes. And
like confidential, I have to tell me what that is. And I’m in La.
Yeah. So highly confidential is just a popular strain that has been
very popular I think in California. , but it does have high levels of
lead a little. So it makes, it, makes you feel very relaxed. It has
floral notes in it because of this terpene and just some other
aromas are citrus blossom violent if you ever smelled like, kind
of like a, like a dried rose characteristic in your cannabis. , that’s
also due to lean a little. But if you think about wines, okay,
there’s so many floral wines out there. One of the first things
that comes to mind as must get right. Recycling Nebbiolo can
also have this beautiful like crushed rose characteristic to it. , so
those are just some common wines that I would pair with
strings that are highly loyal.
Natalie: 27:24 Awesome. Awesome. ,
Jamie: 27:40 I’m definitely not a doctor, but I would say if you are having an
allergic reaction, like maybe a watery eyes, stuffy nose. , I know
some of my friends have had that reaction to some of the
cannabis that they’d been using. But it also comes down to like,
what type of canvas are you using? Are you using flower, are
you eating an edible? , if you’re using like a tincture drop, like
cbd oil contains many different carriers, so you might have
something that has coconut oil that’s basically being the carrier
to cbd going into your body, so you might have a reaction to the
actual carrier oil. So it really, it really depends. And if you are
having these symptoms and you want to keep using cannabis,
I’d highly recommend talking to your, your health doctor to see
what they recommend.
Jamie: 28:37 So Bon appetit is, put on by advice and it’s a really cool show
about like the culinary side of cannabis. And actually when I was
starting to learn about cannabis and research, all of like the
amazing chefs that are out there, I would watch the show. It’s
great. It’s educational and if you are interested in infused foods,
yeah, it’s, it’s very entertaining to watch and docented where.
Okay, so you watch it online at [inaudible] dot com or I think,
yeah, I forget if it was on Netflix that I thought I found it
somewhere online, but yeah, I think there in many different
seasons now, if you have an interest in the culinary side of campus,
you should watch it.
Natalie: 29:19 Jamie, is that one in 10 people may become addicted to
cannabis. I’m sure there are similar statistics for wine and it’s
more risky or riskier if you start trying cannabis when you’re a
teenager, which you should not do. So, what, what have you
read or what’s the advice on it? Is Cannabis more addictive, do
you know?
Jamie: 30:09 Or what, what are the risks there? So I think what’s super
interesting right now is cannabis is actually, at least what I’ve
been reading is actually helping people get out of addiction. So
it’s helping people get out of the opioid addiction, which has
been a big problem here in the United States. , so now instead
of thinking of cannabis as the entry drug, we’re thinking of
cannabis as an exit drug. So that’s just kind of the common
trends that I’ve been reading about lately.
Natalie: 30:37 It’s a very interesting positioning.
Jamie: 30:48 you know of? Oh, there is an actually, , my dear friend, a Corrine
Carol, and she’s actually just releasing her cookbook called
edibles, which I think hits stores on November seventh. , so
yeah, if you think it’s on, just research edibles by
Corrine. Carol and Stephanie who, uh, that’s the other writer, ,
who owns mellows, , they make incredible food. I’ve worked
with Corinne personally and had tasted her cooking. So if you’re
looking for a good cookbook, I’d recommend that one for sure.
Natalie: 31:24 John Miller says, do you think the growth of the marijuana and
cannabis markets will have an impact on the wine industry?
John, you’ve taken the question right after.
Jamie: 31:33 Jamie, what do you think? , yeah, so I think this is a very hot
topic right now and there’s been a lot of articles coming out
about this. So I think right now the wine industry can kind of
think of the cannabis industry as a competitor yet a friend. , so I
think David downs, if your idea of leafly up in Canada, I’m pretty
sure it’s a story of leafly, so it’s a big cannabis website, but I’m
David downs recently wrote an article where he called a both
and like the industry’s frenemies. So I think that’s very true, but
I think there’s a lot more room for collaboration, especially
when you’re seeing like the infused beverage category, the
opportunity to grow that. And we’re already seeing some
collaborations right now. And a good example of that would be,
so Heineken owns a brewery called Lagunitas beer, which is in
Sonoma County.
Jamie: 32:25 So they’ve actually partnered with a cannabis company to
create an infused beverage called high fi hops. So I think we’re
going to start seeing a lot more of these types of products
where these two industries are coming together to create a
really cool product to grow a brand new category. So
interesting, interesting.
Jamie: 33:28 So I’m hoping West Hollywood is being very progressive right
now and hopefully they have a lot of these new consumption
licenses that are coming out. So maybe we’ll see an infused ice
cream shop one day. Interesting, which should be really cool.
Yeah. Yeah. So, so long. Ben and Jerry’s, unless they come out
with their own, of course, went. They’re pretty innovative. Floyd.
Curtis is asking what pairs best. He sounds like he knows what
he’s talking about with cannabis asking for a friend. So, so I
think when I’m a common trend we’re seeing in the United
States is kind of moving away from the Indeca and sativa
labeling. , so what does that mean? Sorry, what does indeca and
Sativa means? Indeca and Sativa, there are two different types
of cannabis and two different species.
Jamie: 34:26 So basically I’m, the old thought was Stetiva makes you feel
uplifted. It gives you energy is more cerebral and Indeca more
relaxing in the couch, a good for nighttime use. But really it’s all
about the terpene that kind of make you feel this way. So
sometimes people will have an Indeca strand and they’ll actually
feel very excited and they can’t go to bed. And they’re like, oh
my gosh, well I thought this wasn’t Indeca. So it’s, it really
depends on what terpenes are in there. So you’d really want to
think about, okay, what is the terpene profile, what are the, like,
what, what type of shots, new pop wine, what are the aromas
that are coming from that line? And from there you can kind of
identify what terpene profile and find a stream from there.
Jamie: 35:16 So I think, yeah, and I think that, we’re going to see, at least in
California, a lot more dispensary’s kind of focused on European
education with guests. , so there’s, hopefully there’s just more
of an unawareness of how great and beneficial they are. A John
Lamb is asking, since cannabis heightens your taste buds, should
you pick a lighter wine as opposed to a heavier one when you’re
pairing? Okay. So I love this question because I think that
creating the perfect parent has a lot to do with balance. , so
when you’re thinking of a parent you want, , so when I think of
balance, so you want the weight of the cannabis to match the
weight of the wine. , so wait, in cannabis is really determined by
the effect and potency and weight in wine is determined by the
body and richness. , so when you’re thinking of that and the
other terms, you want to think of like light, refreshing strains
with light, refreshing wines.
Jamie: 36:13 I’m in big, bold, maybe sleepy, sedated strains with bigger,
bolder wines, just like Zinfandel, Cabernet Sauvignon, a,
Bordeaux and so on. So I think it’s really about balance. Alright,
good balance. Moderation. Yup. , so I think we got to two
groups of Terpenes oh yeah. So had a lot more the terpene,
what will be the third category? Okay, so let me reach over
here. , so we have Beta carry off, which in this glass I
put some black pepper. So in cannabis, you’ll often perceive as
kind of spiciness. , so some common aromas are black pepper,
cinnamon, clover, and this type of terpene is really good for
anti-inflammatory purposes. , is really helpful for anti-anxiety.
It’s actually the only Chore Peanut Binds to the CB, one receptor
in your endoccanabinoid system. I know this all sounds like a
foreign language. Wow. Can you just back that up?
Jamie: 37:15 I would love to know what that means. So define all your terms,
what you just said please. So now I’ve annoyed system is every
person has this in your body and so basically there’s two main
receptors that you have. So you have cb one and CB are brain. ,
so they’re all throughout your body. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so, ,
there are all throughout your body. And what is so great about
cannabis is that thc and cbd actually bind to these receptors to,
this is why you get all these health benefits is because they’re
actually interacting with your endoccanabinoid system. And so
sorry, endoccanabinoid system mean. So then, so the
endocannabinoid system, if that’s what’s in your body, and I
think , this might be wrong, but I believe I read that they used to
call it the endocrine system, but now cannabis research has
come out and it is the endocannabinoid system.
Jamie: 38:12 That’s everyone’s body. So. Okay. It’s, yeah, it’s pretty high level
science. Gotcha. We’re gonna. We’re gonna. That’s all right. Uh,
so carry on with the third group of Terpenes, terpenes. So
Medicare awfully like I was saying is very spicy and so when
you’re thinking about like a good wine to pair this with,
Zinfandel works really well. A Cabernet Sauvignon, petite sirah, ,
these are all really nice wine pairings with this and yeah, some
strains if you’re looking for strains and northern lights So these
are all common strains you’ll find in California. So would you say
strains? Are you talking about some particular grower or how
do you, how do you define strings? Yeah. So if you think about
strains, you can compare that to wine varietals. So think of like,
I’m a Rockstar as you would a Cabernet Sauvignon, so it’s kind
of like that comparison, if you think of it that way, but each
strain has a complete different genetics.
Jamie: 39:23 , some might be a combination of two different strains. , and
there’s, I mean, there’s thousands out there, so I’m still learning
about all of them. I mean, just like wine, there’s always, you
know, more varietals to learn about and explore, are we going
to see a master of cannabis, like our master of wine or. Oh, I
don’t know. That’s an interesting question. I know that there’s a
program right now, , but the tribe comb institute is putting on
that actually trains people to become a cannabis sommlier. I, so
it’s, it’s a very stringent tests. , I know a few people who have
passed by think our teaching people about terroir, growing
regions. , it’s very similar to what a wine sommelier learned. So
it’s gonna be interesting to see people and how they kind of
take this new certificate. , so like all the job opportunities that
could be available in the features really opening up. Well that’s
like me, like I love wine and I would never give it up for
cannabis. But I, I really enjoyed pairing the two together. I think
there’s an amazing synergy, so. Absolutely have both. Why?
Why choose?
Jamie: 40:46 Okay. So your fourth category of Terpene, Jamie. So now I have
a terpene myrcene. So in this glass you can see these are
mushrooms. Yep. , so myrcene is a terpene that has these
earthy forest floor mixed herbs characteristics, and it’s also
known to give you kind of have these relaxing sedating effects.
So this ca or this terpene is really great for nighttime use. , but
an interesting thing about myrcene is it can have tropical fruit
notes as well, so sometimes you’ll perceive like some mango or
pineapple in the cannabis and that’s due to myrcene and
mangled. The fruit is actually really high in this mercy naturally
as well. , so it’s pretty. And when you’re thinking about wine
pairings, I know someone asked about a in our earlier, what you
would pair with that. , so I would recommend a strain that is
really high in Myrcene and because of that earthiness, because
Pinot Noir has all of these beautiful like earth characteristics, it’s
very terroir driven and I think mercy week perfect.
Jamie: 41:53 And a great strain with that is called white widow. So when you
smell it just smells like earth. , terroir. And it reminds me a lot
like wine. So yeah, that, that makes so much natural sense that
this straine would have the mushroom flavor of course, piano
where that’s what you get fresh, right? Yeah, it makes sense. All
right, so number five, terpene, category number five, nber five. I
have some rose, rosemary, and at the bottom of the glass you
can’t really see it, but there’s actually deal in here as well. , but I
wish I had some pine tree because this terpene is called Alpha
pinene. , so Alpha Pinene is a, I think there’s one of the most
common terpene sounding cannabis, but this really gives kind
that pine needle pine or like that pine tree characteristic to
cannabis, but also you can smell the rosemary and dill and this
really, , provides energy.
Jamie: 42:51 It’s great for anti inflammatory. It kind of clears your head when
you smoked this type of flower, that time Alpha pinene. , so it
makes you very alert and focused. And so when I think about
this terpene with wine, I think a great pairing would be, , you
know, a white wine that’s really high in acidity, maybe like a
Pinot Gri. I think Vermintino is a really nice pairing as well as like
a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc because New Zealand’s saw me
a block just has that natural like grassiness that, that green
characteristic that you’re looking for that really ties well Oh
Wow. And so I think we’re on number six, are we? Yes. And I
actually, , I don’t have a glass with number six because the
number six is called trans-nerolidol. And so this terpene is
really known for like pefumeness that you might find that
Jamie: 43:45 So think of, , jasmine or ginger root tea. Tree oil also has high
levels of Trans Nerolidol at all. , and when you’re thinking about
perfing this, , there’s also a lot of wines that have this
characteristic rosés for instance, like we’re drinking today. Yes,
very perfey. Absolutely. Yes.down in Argentina, there’s a variety
called Torontis, which is very notable to be this big perfey. It’s
beautiful, it’s beautiful, versatile, but it’s very perfey. , I think
diverse demeanor is also a very nice pairing with Trans
nerolidol. So, , yeah, and I think a very common strain that’s
high. There’s actually three I can list. So we have islands, sweet
skunk. I love all the days of CS. Names are wild. , we have a
Skywalker Oji which also has high levels of lean, a little earlier
on in Banana Kush. So look for these types of strains if you’re
looking for that trans nerolidol.
Jamie: 44:43 All oil. All right. So I’ve been, I can’t believe we’ve flown by.
We’ve, we’re at 45 minute mark now. I could ask you a whole
lot more questions, but what do you, what do you see in the
future? Where’s it going, Jamie? What, what could we expect as
wine lovers? What’s gonna happen with cannabis and what
should we be looking for? So I think the future for cannabis is
very bright and I mean, I’m excited to see cannabis just used as
a gourmet product and how we can incorporate it into different,
uh, dining experiences like we talked about restaurants with
wine list. That’d be so awesome one day. And I think, I mean, I
would love to try some infused wines as well, those non
alcoholic wines and tastes through those. I think it’s gonna be
super interesting. And I think another thing that’s gonna be
huge as tourism, right?
Jamie: 45:37 Yeah. Because in California alone, wine tourism is
$4,000,000,000. So do you think people are going to be visiting
wine grow ups? Like they visit winery tasting rooms? Yeah. And
I know right now there’s actually some tours that are popping
up mostly in Sonoma County, , but also in Hboldt. And so I know
they’re working towards getting their permits to do this, but I
think it’s going to be amazing, like you’ll be able to go to these
cannabis farms, you’ll be able to see the growth, touch the
plant, and it’s so fascinating. Like I’ve been to a few farms
myself and there’s just so much you learn by going there. It’s
fascinating. And we’re also seeing wine and cannabis tours as
well. I’m being developed because there’s such a, like a want
and demand for people traveling to California to have these
experiences together. , so I’m actually going on a cannabis in
wine tour on October third, so we’ll have to report back to you
and let you know how it goes because it’s the first one I’ve been
Natalie: 47:33 I didn’t get through nearly all the questions I wanted to ask you,
Jamie, but is there anything that we haven’t covered that you’d
like to mention now?
Jamie: 48:06 , well, uh, like I mentioned before, I do host an event series
called Thursday infused in San Francisco. Uh, so my next event
is October 25th and I’ve partnered with a amazing canvas shop.
His name is chef Holden Jagger, along with his sister Rachel
Birkins, who is actually the cannabis editor for club route
magazine, but she’s worked with the tasting panel magazine as
well as Psalm Journal for the past 15 years. So they’re coming
up to San Francisco to be my partners. It’s going to be a
fabulous experience and you can learn more. Just see more
about my , and also I am coming to
Canada. Yes, on November 21st I’ll be in Toronto and I’m
partnering with the Canadian Association of Professional
Sommelier and the Liford cannabis solutions group to do a talk
on turpines , so if you are in Toronto please check it out. Come
meet me. I’d love to meet you as. Yeah, the conversation
Natalie: 49:09 That’s awesome. Jamie, and where can we find you online?
You’ve got your Thursday infused Dotcom, but where else can
we find you on social, on your own personal site?
Jamie: 49:17 Yeah, so my main site is the So that’s where my
blog lives on it, that’s where all of my educational materials live
at. , and then also, , instagram is probably my biggest on social
media network that I use. I post a lot of my photos there. I post
a lot of education and you can find me on instagram at
theherbsomm. So please follow me, I’ll follow you back and I
look forward to keep educating and speaking with you about
cannabis and line.
Natalie: 49:46 Oh, Jamie your a treat. Thank you. Great. Thank you so much for
spending part of your Sunday with us. So educational. I feel so
much more informed now about this. I mean it’s just not
enough reading newspapers, especially when you come at it
from a wind band to kind of totally that angle. But uh, thank you
and wish you all the luck with all your projects or events and uh,
again thank you for spending some of your time with us tonight,
Jamie. And I just want to say cheers to everyone. Cheers. Yes, I
do have a glass of canvas here, so I’ll go. Awesome.













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