Wakefield Wines: A Vision for Cabernet Sauvignon, Shiraz and Chardonnay (Video)

In this lively interview with Justin Taylor and Neil Hadley from Wakefield Wines, they share some of their most memorable wine stories as well as fascinating insights and visual illustrations into why wines taste they way they do.

We also chat about:

What makes the Clare Valley different from other regions in Australia for growing wine?

How does that express itself in the wines we taste from the Claire?

 

Clare Valley Vineyard

 

How does oak give structure to wine, and what exactly does “structure” mean?

How can we think about the taste of wine visually to understand it better?

How do intensity and length of finish interact?

What does it mean to have a “hole in the middle” when tasting wine?

How is elegance in wine related to acidity, and what does “elegance” mean?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wakefield Clare Valley Estate Chardonnay 2018
Clare Valley, South Australia, Australia

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clare Valley Vineyard

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wakefield Cabernet Sauvignon 2017
Clare Valley, South Australia, Australia

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Old Vines

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wakefield Shiraz 2018
Clare Valley, South Australia, Australia

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Justin was one of six kids growing up in the Taylor household in Sydney’s Rose Bay under the watchful eye of their mother Loretta and father Bill Taylor Jr. – one of the original founding family members of Wakefield Wines. A natural salesman, Justin is noted as the loudest and jovial one of the bunch. He graduated from the prestigious Cranbrook boy’s school in 1988 and loved spending weekends on the rugby field.

In 1997, the Taylor family welcomed third-generation family member Justin Taylor into the family business.

Since then, Justin has been pivotal in introducing Wakefield Wines to wine drinkers all over the world. Justin started his professional career at Wakefield serving a three year apprenticeship of types working as a sales representative in the Western Suburbs of Sydney. Justin has completed the Wine Society Advanced Wine Appreciation Certificate, Advanced Wine Marketing at TAFE and the Wine Executive Program through the Monash University of Melbourne.

In 2000, Justin was promoted to the role of National Sales Manager in Australia. Over the following eight years the company’s domestic market share doubled, as did the size of the domestic sales team and the portfolio of wines that were being offered to the public in Australia, as Justin said “it was definitely a very fun time to be part of the Wakefield Wines team, we worked very hard and achieved very satisfying results.”

After a visit to Australia in the late 80s, he decided Sydney would become home and pursued numerous roles in sales and marketing with prestigious brands like Rosemount Estate, Penfolds and Villa Maria in New Zealand.

Today at Wakefield Wines, Neil manages the export portfolio of the 50-year wine company along with third-generation Export Manager and Company Director Justin Taylor. His main regions of responsibility include the United Kingdom and Europe, North America and South America. When not jet setting on behalf of Wakefield, Neil is an avid traveller himself. He cites trekking the foot of Mount Everest, dam-building for Masai tribes-people in Kenya and driving around
Australia in a ‘Kingswood’ amongst his more memorable journeys around the world.

 

 

De-stemming Grapes

 

 

 

Sunrise Over the Vineyards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Neil Hadley MW joined Wakefield Wines as General Manager, Export in early 2007. With more than 30 years of industry trade experience, Neil is key to developing and executing international sales and marketing strategies around the world for Wakefield Wines. His career in fine wine began in the early 80s as a wine retailer in England. Determined to understand the wine shelves of Lay & Wheeler, Neil dove straight into WSET training, later moving on to become one of the youngest members initiated as a prestigious Master of Wine in 1993.

 

 

 

This post is sponsored by Wakefield Wines, however the editorial content, including both the wine reviews and the interview structure and questions, remain independent.

Full Transcript:

Natalie:

Well today, I am joined by two gentlemen from the lovely Clare Valley in Australia. I’m from Wakefield wine. So we have Justin Taylor who was one of six kids growing up. I understand in your household, in Sydney, Justin, and your father, Bill Taylor was one of the founding members, original founding members of Wakefield wines. And I’m told at least by your own bio that you were the loudest and most jovial of the bunch.

Justin:

That’s a lovely introduction.

Natalie:

That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. He didn’t say a word after that. It’s a good thing. And you’re here in export sales, Justin. So it sounds like you’re well equipped  to handle that. , and then we have Neil Hadley also in works with Justin Taylor in export sales. And he started off his career in fine wine retail in England and was one of the youngest people ever to achieve the master of wine designation. So welcome to you both. I’m so delighted to be here with you,

Justin:

right.

Natalie:

All right. Okay. Let’s, let’s kick things off with a couple of stories first, before we sort of dig into some of the trends and issues. , Justin, let’s start with you., maybe you could tell us about your most memorable vintage ever, and what happened and why it sticks in your memory even to this day.

Justin:

Yeah. Look ,the families, stories of five decade old story. We, 69 after the vines went in the ground, but, and I’ve been lucky. I’ve had numerous jobs over the 20, 25 years. I’ve been in the business. , and one of my most memorable vintage, actually, if it’s a terrible story, because the is for us as a family, a rebirth and regeneration, you know, it’s so exciting every year, what are the wine’s going to be locked? And it very genuinely is, you know, you don’t quite know what mother nature’s going to give you each year, although we’re very consistent in Clare. So it’s usually a very exciting time, but I remember I was lucky enough to be, I was in North America between 2008 and 2012 and a lot of time in Canada. That’s what I spent a lot of my time in Canada.

Justin:

And I was based in Atlanta, Georgia and heading North when Iraq and I was visiting Australia in 2011. And my father said to me it was vintage time. And my father said, look, I really want you to go down with the vineyards and I want you to see something if never see again. And I was like, Oh, what are you what’s going on? And he said, we’ve had a very wet, very wet finish to vintage. And wait, don’t make four to five. So they made dessert wines because of the boldly family. And you might think some of the most beautiful, you know, noble Roth as they refer to it. turns well, good. We’re not geared up for

Natalie:

that. Right? Those are the sweet wines, right? The noble, that’s actually a good thing. It’s not like when wine makers go bad, it’s, it’s actually

Justin:

right. It’s a great, if you get up to do it, it’s exactly what you want, but not get up to do it. Anyway, my father sort of insisted, I go down to the, the vignettes and I did, and we got a little bit of white wine in that year, but all of our red wines, it had to be left on by because the petritis fungus had gone into our vineyards. We weren’t prepared for it and we did not want to do it. So basically we had to write off the 2011 vintage and always fruits. Like I remember, and it was really emotional. I think men should cry a lot more than they do. I’m very proud of the hat, but I remember having like tears in my eyes, red wine, and some of our rows are like a kilometer long, you know, it’s a big venue down there now. And we just had to leave it all on fire. And it was really emotional. It was, it was super emotional. I’ll I’ll certainly never forget the 2011 vintage. I’d like to say that 49 vintages say the side of that had been full of happiness, beautiful wines. But that one was never, I’ll never forget it.

Natalie:

I’m just envisioning that kilometer of fruit that had to go. I just,

Justin:

yeah, you’re funny. You mentioned it because I think we both went down there and I you know, nice thing we talk often, I’m sure you tell people how smell is it triggers a memory, but that vintage at the smell of the vitritis in the vineyard. I still remember that smell. It still triggers the recollection that vignette is not the visual look of fruits. It’s the smell of it.

Natalie:

Yeah. It’s pungent. And I guess you couldn’t make a dessert wine from those grapes.

Justin:

Okay. So with dark lab is a silver lining. Now our general manager production at that stage was an ex Brown brothers guy. And he had great experiences in making dessert wines. And we made a recently and I saw a bottle of it the other day. So it was stunning and it’s the acidity of lively acidity, you know, racing. It was so yeah, out of a disaster, there was one little lovely moments. And I got as much of that as I could get.

Natalie:

That’s great. It’s kind of like the accidental creation of wine in the first places, you know, people stumbled into it, but do you still make that dessert wine today?

Justin:

No, it was totally a one off because again, we’re not the vineyards, it’s one big vineyard. So a lot of like our really good friends that’s bought. So you know, Australia’s first families like do they’re beautiful, but they do it as a separate, totally separate to all their table wines. Whereas we go one big vineyard asset in the Clare Valley. So I think it’d be a bit tricky.

Natalie:

Sure. To keep it separate. Cause it can spread easily. The noble rot. Wow. Well that is that that’s very touching and very visual Justin. , now Neil, you also have a story about an interesting place, the most interesting place perhaps where you’ve tasted wine.

Justin:

It’s fun. I mean, it funds talk about actually given the world in this strange lockdown situation where nobody’s going anyway. , although as an aside, I was on the phone to a colleague in California , yesterday and I said, Oh, what are you up to? And he said it, Oh, we’re just backing up. We’re on our way to France tomorrow. , so I say, well, how are you doing that? He said, Oh, we found a way through Germany and then we can get down to France. So things might be out of picking up a little bit anyhow, back in the day when we could travel freely, I was in the UK. I was I was visiting the UK to do some sales and one of my key customers, I wanted to go and see and show them a, a particular shear as a rattle which is a region in down in the South of the state. And we had to pass some of Shiraz and we wanted him to take, so I got to the UK and I sort of said to the guys who look after us there, you know,where’s Mike. , and they said, look, he’s, he’s left the country. He’s in burgundy.

Justin:

Oh, okay, well, we’ll kind of come a long way to do this. So I said, okay, well let’s, let’s, you know, let’s not give up. I ended up flying to Paris. , I then took the train down to bone and intercepted without our other guy who represents us in the UK. But they have a business in burgundy as well. So we intercepted with them. And he had figured out that this guy, this buyer needed to get down to the airport, Leo in order to be active, to get home at the end of his trip. , and so it said, Oh, how about we just give you a lift, get you, get you down, down the modal. I get it therefore easily. And he said, yeah, sure. That’d be great. Let’s do that then. So we got in the car and we drove out burgundy and we headed South. And , well we got to the hall we pulled over and we said, Oh, we just wanna, you know, pull over and take a stop here. We went to a little picnic in France. He had these lovely little picnic tables picnic table. Well, we pulled out the bottles of wine. We said, let’s taste the wine.

Natalie:

You’re tasting wine in burgundy.

Justin:

They’re on literally in this little picnic spot and we tasted these wines and he said, that’s fantastic. I’ll buy it.

Natalie:

Yeah. Burgundy. That’s that’s good. That’s improvising. All right. I hope

Justin:

who, just, who just want the best story or a London Paris, right?

Natalie:

It’s a, it’s a toss because very Mo moving and lots of fun. So let’s let’s dive into, you know, I have some lovely, lovely pictures here of the Clare Valley. , I’m gonna bring these up first and I want you to tell me a little bit about what we’re seeing here. Let me share my screen because I think if we let people know visually what they’re seeing or where you are now, of course, these are wonderful grapes from the Clare Valley. Let me move ahead here. Can you see the screen as well? Both of you. Okay, perfect. So this is obviously one of your vineyards in the Clare.

Justin:

Yeah. Yeah. The situation with us is actually one big vineyard. , so in 69 the time was started with about 250 acres. And it’s now about a thousand acres, but it’s all all radiating from the winery. It’s all in one huge sort of bowl shape. And it means that we get, as you’re showing him the grapes that you’re being able to put up lots of different little micro-climates within the sites that allow us to grow everything from recycling. And [inaudible], it’s a great facility. And because of those rolling Hills, you get different angles and different exposures. So some vines are getting the morning sun, the Reese things are getting that gentle morning, sun arises are oriented towards the afternoon sun, and you’re getting this fantastic ripening of sort of plushness that you’re looking for through, through the exposure to sun strikes. So it’s a great, it’s a great those vines. Just remind me, it’s being far too long since we’ve done.

Natalie:

Oh, look at that. And so it’s now, you know, for those of us in North America who are not as familiar with Australia, that it’s not just one big hot country, but Clare is actually a cool climate when it comes to growing grapes. Why is that

Justin:

to answer that one, but when the family, so the family, we were in hotels in the forties, fifties, and sixties, and then wanted to make this big decision to get into wine making. So my parents and my uncle went over to ’em quota, but looked at how the French opinions, basically they went over two or three times in the late sixties now looking at French vineyards. And then I came back to Australia and when 63 registered wine regions Australia with all around Australia, what they found in Clare was very unique terroir. So clay has the spirit and you can see them, some of these photos of beautiful, rich, red terror, rasa soils,

Natalie:

and the one meaning sort of the soil and the climate, that combination of soil and climate.

Justin:

Absolutely. You look, it’s the French term and it really is bringing it all together. It’s all the elements that bring it together that make your region unique. So we’ve got these beautiful red soils over limestone. Then what we have is this elevation above sea level. So well you get, and I think it’s a real X factor in Clare. And what makes Clare special in the Australian summer went vintages on 40 degrees Celsius in climate day after day out to that beautiful dry, but really pause then by eight o’clock at night, almost every single night it’ll drop down to, I tell you to 20 degrees Celsius. So you’ve got this big time or shifts going on. Yeah, big shifts and it’s, and it’s, I’m not trying to be too technical, but it’s it’s, it’s really looking out to the fruit on the bonds. It’s looking out to the plant.

Justin:

So the plant can then look after the fruits. And I think in a lot of the wines are the ones who are going to try with you. Wonderful, soft, elegant seems to grind a 10 and structure, you know, just they’re the sorts of wines. My friends often say to me, Justin, look, I love your wines, but there’s one big problem. I went to have a glass and I drank a bottle, you know? And it’s, it’s the, it’s the soft tandem structure. So I I’ve got a bidding declare there, but for me, that’s one of the big factors that play a deliverance. Definitely that lovely photograph are you finished with an athlete with the sky at night? That’s a real photo. That’s not Photoshop. That’s a long exposure that the guys took when they were doing a session that they that outcome sky, it is exactly what’s going on at that time of year, 2011 vintage to one side generally it’s dry and the skies are clear. So when the sun goes down, yes, you’ve had a lovely hot day classic Australian warm to hog day. But as soon as the sun goes down, because we are an elevation, he just radiates straight out into the space and the vineyard cools rapidly. And I’ve often said, it’s kind of similar to putting food in the fridge. If you want to preserve things, you call them down.

Natalie:

Right, right. Yeah. To keep the freshness. Yeah.

Justin:

In terms of living plants, when they get cold, when it goes dark, like still photosynthesizing warm now keep breathing. They’ll keep respiring. Which means they burn up the energies in the sugars and structures, their fruits. Whereas if they get cold, they just go into hibernation and they go to sleep. And so the acids in the flavors and the colors and molecularly that’s faking in those grapes, just go to sleep. And then in the morning, sun comes up and you go again. But then the fruit actually loses its integrity.

Natalie:

Absolutely. The way I understand it is like when you’re working out, you’re lifting weights or you’re on some sort of cardio, you’re expiring, you’re working hard. Your heart rate is up, but if you just kept working out, you die, you need to wait to rest. And that’s when the muscle is built. It’s not built, you’re tearing down. Like you’re working so hard when you’re working out, but it’s actually in the resting phase that things come together. And so, you know, because for the longest time I thought, well, okay, so the plants go to sleep at night, but that just means they’re just, you know, stretching out unnecessarily this whole ripening business, but it does work, you know, it has to work in tandem. And that big shift between the warmth of the day and the coolness of the night is just what you need after you’ve been at the gym working out, and then you go home and, you know, you’ve got the air conditioning on and you’ve got,

Justin:

yeah, that’s so true. And then obviously the other thing that’s important to understand where the Australia is. It’s not usual to have that elevation. Most of Australia is very, very old. , it’s incredibly, and most of the land is flats somewhere around 50 meters above sea level. And what you’re looking at in the, in the, when you look at that map of Australia, that whole plight is gradually drifting woods. So like something ridiculous. Yeah. About at 11 centimeters a year or something like that, continent is moving and it’s, what’s happening with that force. That’s coming from the South and pushing upwards is there’s these little buckles in the land, which has just rippling upwards. So most of the land is flat and moving like that. But as you do, if you, if you push a car and you get those little rubber ripples that come up in the case of carpets, well, one of those little trick points is the Clare Valley. And another one is the Adelaide Hills and the Barossa, the reaches of it at the height. This is where the effectively the land is pushed up instead of pushing North. , so then we are in Clara, Alvin yards, about 350 to 400 meters above sea level. , and that makes all the difference because that’s elevation when the sun goes down, the heat radiates.

Natalie:

Yeah. And also at that elevation, are you getting more sunlight versus heat? Like, is it better for the ripening of the grapes if there higher altitude?

Justin:

Mmm,

Natalie:

  1. You can say no. No. Well,

Justin:

I can try it off. The top of my, it does get very often in the daytime 40 degrees. I’m glad to say the way is the sort of, you get these heat waves. So we do ask for a long 10, 14 day periods when we’ll go to that. But we’re 35 to four, sorry, 30 to 35, which is good for a right thing. If you get too hot, the vines.

Natalie:

Sure. I guess I’m thinking of in Argentina, for example they talk about the elevations, getting more UV light, like sunlight, not heat sunlight. That’s really good for the ripening of the grape skins, the phenols and everything else that all the goodness that’s in the skins.

New Speaker:

yeah. So, so I’m not thinking about those sort of those mountain sort of sites about the high elevation and there’s a particular character taste that you can, we don’t really see that we’re not at, I mean, we’re talking 250 meters about sea level is hardly the Himalayas. So , I don’t think you’re getting quite quite bad and from a fruit ripening flavor sort of profile, I always think of the Clare specifically, if we’re talking about Cabernet, I always think the Clare gives you more of a sort of Napa Valley style Cassie expression. So I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say there’s an elevation related flavor.

Natalie:

Okay. Okay. That’s good to know the difference. , but Neil, you did come up with some interesting charts. Like I can you tell me what the idea was for those, and then we’re going to actually show the charts, but how did you come up with this idea for flavor charts of different wines?

Justin:

Well, I’d love to say that it was my idea, but it wasn’t one of the winemakers I’ve worked with in the past. Was I fairly nonverbal kind of a communicator basically that they , there was a wonderful article written about him, this guy, bill Phillips. Sure. Who was with Rosemount wise. Mmm. And there was a wonderful article written about him by a guy in England, the gentleman’s name, but his article said waiting for a thought to come out of Phillips Shore’s mind is like watching the holding pattern, the airports as these sort of ideas are in his head and gradually come down. , so you can imagine that could be quite challenging in terms of him not wanting to get into technical descriptions of wines. And I saw him working with his team in the winery years and years and years ago. And he wasn’t telling them anything. He was just drawing a little graph and he’s saying, it looks like this. And I want it to look like this gave me some saying X, Y, or was that and we’ll put some of this in there and we’ll build this part of the pallet profile up. , and, and all they were doing was, was drawing the shape of what they were tasting

Natalie:

the shape of

Justin:

both communicating without misunderstanding each other. , the idea came from, I thought that’s really good because anybody can get the grass. So yeah, that’s what we started doing.

Natalie:

So let’s start with Cabernet because that’s a really interesting concept. So you’ve got intensity going up and down.

Justin:

Yeah. This is great to see. Cause on on Monday night I did this with a, with a text or on a on a white board and it looked really terrible. So somebody has put a huge amount of work. It’s pretty great. But yeah, the one that people really sort of get really clear on is, is the recent, the lessees. This cabinet is yes, the vertical axis is the amount of intensity as low as you like. So yeah, obviously it’s a variable answers, but in the case of drawing it, you’ve got, low-intensity obviously towards the bottom of high intensity towards the top and then from left to right. We’re thinking about how we, the see for wine in the front, mid back and finish well of the pallets. I’ve been the tasting experience. So when you’re looking at Cabernet Sauvignon was the thing that hits you first is the tenants.

Justin:

The first thing you notice with Cabernet is this quite high impact, quite aggressive tannic expression. And that’s like, yeah. , and, and it’s also all the difference between good cap and I am bad cap and I, because bad cap might just, just has that tenant and it can be quite green and quite aggressive and it doesn’t really have much going on behind it. So it’s the only thing, you know, in quality in, in Cabernet Sauvignon world, what makes the difference is this mid and back, which is the velocity, the flavor that then comes through quite rapidly. We’re talking about a split second between your brain, noticing the tannins, thinking it wants to object about the tannins and then suddenly being flooded by this really generous really plush expression of wine flavors. And suddenly your brain is overwhelmed with, by the pleasure of the flavor and forget about the Italian altogether, but not quite great cabin. I should do that wherever in the world it’s coming from. Yeah. It’s a pretty damning a reality that if it’s not great capita, it never will do that. So mean nasty Cabernets when they’re young will be mean not hard nasty cabinet.

Natalie:

Yeah, for sure. So back to the childbirth analogy, it does work nasty, but they grow up and they mature. How about Chardonnay? I’ve got four, these charts. So somebody was busy in your office. So talk to me about Chardonnay.

Justin:

Very nice. I might have to get him to give me these because they’re really good Chardonnay of Australian wine in terms of that pallet profile. You know, people sort of say, Oh, you know, why is sharp myself popular? Nice because it’s lovely and soft at the front. It’s lovely and soft in the middle and it’s lovely and soft finish it. So like literally you, wherever it’s grown in the world tends to just come up to your palate, give it a great big bear hug and leave you with a smile on your face. And it’s when you draw it in this fashion, it becomes clear why, why there is this natural appeal. And what I did with the dotted line was trying to show if you were in a cooler climate, you tend not to get that richness on the front, but you do to get that generosity, the finish. And what I’ve also indicated is there is a bit of a hollow in the middle and, and to some extent, and of course it’s the winemaker’s choice as to how much, but it’s in that area, that the role of Oak becomes apparent.

Natalie:

I showed that mid pallet that middle,

Justin:

yeah, you can use, use leaves to give that creaminess in there, the battle, the French call it the storing of the yeast into the line. But then obviously beyond that, the barrel itself and the flavor brings to the talent profile is really in that mid palate and fills, fills the center. , and obviously in the cooler climates, the trick is not to get tempted into trying to fill the whole gap with, because that would be a disaster. , and so, so winemakers in cooler climates, obviously avid, I have a different shape in mind with their end target. , and but anyway, that’s, yeah, that’s the sharp main idea.

Natalie:

Does that mean you get a big, like a boost of flavor in a warmer climate upfront, and then if there isn’t a lot of Oak hole in the middle, does that mean you’re not getting much flavor as the wine is moving back through your mouth and then you get more of it on the finish?

Justin:

, yeah, you can. The other, I mean, obviously these diagrams, I should say, because somebody will be watching this and saying, well, that’s not very scientific, very simplistic diagram. I mean, you can do them with spider diagrams and make them into slates or 10 dimensions. , but, but as a, as a simplistic sort of view, it does show that in many ways, particularly with those warmer climates areas, what the Oak is really doing is putting frame and holding, particularly at the back shot at night, from all times can get quite sloppy. , if, if it doesn’t have a bit of firmness and a bit of structure and the arc is also bringing that into the picture,

Natalie:

well, bites, firmness, and structure.

Justin:

, what do you mean by that? I know those are, I understand what you’re saying, but is there a way for someone to understand that like the fruit can be really ripe and juicy, but what is the tan, and is it the bowl that holds the fruit? I mean, what is it? Well, I literally think of it as a picture frame. And I think of as the frame, the sloppiness that I sort of refer to it’s just because of nature, it’s very tropical, it’s peachy, it’s round and juicy in general, but you can have too much of a good thing. What the OIC is doing is giving a bit of a bitter tannin, not so much that you’d think it’s at all aggressive, but just this little bit of firmness that sort of puts a full, full stop if you like on the, on the, on the taste so that it holds the wine. You, if you want to say, we taste the wine while we’re talking about, just to help you also to visualize, see, I’m thinking Dolly Parton versus Katherine Hepburn, if you’re warmer climate and you’re lost about, you could be a little bit more voluptuous, a little bit more Dolly. And if you call it the beautiful acidity, you know, you’re probably looking at your favorite Tiffany’s and there’s a little bit of elegance there and a little bit of refined.

Natalie:

Yeah. I’m thinking Brad Pitt versus Sean Connery actually bring it on gentlemen.

Justin:

 

Natalie:

exactly. So I’ve got this as well. , I will go back to full screen in a moment, but I just, because we’ve got two more charts here. I want people to see them, but I, I get what you mean by the framing of the Oak. It’s kind of not letting the oils run off the page or off the canvas and onto the wall. So it does sort of give that counter position, whatever this Chardonnay, by the way is just lovely. Oh my goodness. Tell us about the Chardonnay, Justin.

Justin:

Yeah, we’ve done a huge amount with our shot and I stumped, I think family owned businesses and the region that you’re from, you’ve got to stay very true to your values and very true. You want to install and that’s particularly evidence, you know, red wines. I think we’ve been able to flex a little bit more with our white wines and particularly with our Chardonnay were reported by a little burgundy house called Louis Latour. You might’ve heard of them into the UK. We sent out a Megan’s our chief wine maker over the sort of not the mid noughties. And that the joke that was given to Adam was get the French drunk and get some of the Oak cause we want some of that look too. So they Chardonnays of ours now, arguably going into some of the best French over the they’re onto a bridge.

Justin:

, so and we’ve also planted some French clones of Chardonnay down at the, down in the vineyards, in the Clare Valley. So we’ve really shifted what we’re doing with our shot and eyes. And I think again, you mentioned it, but the bats BATNA stirring on lays work. A lot of our sharp nose. I just have this natural vibrancy and body to them. That’s actually quiet, elegant, and subtle. And then the Oak integration is supplied. What I love about our shot. Nice. Now we certainly got out, okay. Now fruit just in balance, the best Spain in the last 50 years we’ve been doing it outside is definitely the best it’s ever been.

Natalie:

Really good balance. Really terrific. I mean, it’s so rich and yet it’s not heavy or flabby or it’s just really got that nice balance. And the leaves, by the way, are the Baton nudge just for anybody who doesn’t know is the, the, the spent yeast cells, the leaves sort of fall out of the wine, but they have this fresh bread tastes that creamy bread think freshly baked bread, cooling on the window with butter melting in it. I mean, it’s beautiful.

Justin:

This one really shows all of those things. We started the re rework on our and program in the early two thousands. So this wasn’t nearly a 20 year journey. , and, and it’s important in cloud because, because without warm days shot and I will, we’ll get overblown and overcrowded quite easily. So I’m moving to lower yielding, higher quality focus clones and having a much more quality focus on, on where we’re planting the fruit, getting into the coolest sites within that, a vignette

Neil:

just maintenance that we’ve moved the dial quite radically. And then as Justin quite rightly said, that relationship with lats or in burgundy means the way shipping barrels in each vintage, which started out since Andrew’s program, which is the sort of top of our range. And then cascade through the wine tasting. It actually only sees about six months in barrel. So it doesn’t spend a huge amount, but it just gives that framing and gives that firmness that holds that lovely peachy fruits you know, in control. I like the idea of being the glass that holds the wine.

Natalie:

Yeah. The bowl and the fruit. And so for each of you, what would be your favorite food pairing with this wine, if you, or maybe it’s hard to limit it to one,

Neil:

no one thing I would say with Chardonnays generally, unless you’re in a very cool climate high asset Chardonnay. Yeah. My initial answer to that is not sushi. , not any salmon or or Japanese style rule or lightly cooked fish because the oils in , particularly in salmon a fight with quite dramatically, if you don’t have enough, so generally avoid, avoid that sort of oily fish, but mean to Whitefish and into, you know, sort of a nice pan fried cod that that’s perfect or, you know, something that’s got a little bit of Browning and Pam add to, to match into the things of the flavors that come from the oldest one is the wine that that’s right. The white card. If I had to be specific I’ve to that. Yeah. I’m going to chicken, I’m getting a bit of chicken and I’m trying to pick my sauce, so I’m not, but I know whether it’s pissed on, or even if I wanted to be badly behaved and trying to lose weight, even like a little bit of a crane, white wine sort of cream. And then I’m thinking the vibrancy, the vibrant acidity is gonna work through that a little bit. , and I’m in a very happy place with that.

Natalie:

Well, that sounds good. Yeah.

Neil:

As I’m sure you’ve found many times, if it’s one, my will, will work pretty much with most dishes. So it’s very generous variety on its own. And it’s also very generous. There’s a restaurant in Sydney on Sydney Harbor called Catalina, which I’ve dragged in, you know, heavily to more than once their signature dishes that snap in. Like, if it’s like almost like a pasta sauce. Yeah. That would be, that’d be right on the money, but anyone in the Cove or across Canada who wants to come out, I’d recommend Catalina. It’s just down the road from my I’ll certainly drop in and have a drink with you. You are, the family’s wants, are on the list and I’ll insist that you have the signature snap up.

Natalie:

Oh, that sounds great. Open invite. You know, we’ll get to traveling again soon. Absolutely. , and you know, I always find that acidity, especially in a rich wine is the balancing factor really is. And especially in this Chardonnay and people get sometimes afraid of, Oh, I don’t like acid, but acid to me is to wine is salt is to food. If you use it judiciously, or if it’s in balance with everything else, it just brings forward flavor and lifts the whole dish or wine, if you will. Yeah.

Justin:

I call it, I call it vibrant acidity, vibrant, vibrant. It brings it to life. And as soon as you were like me, both do a lot of wine dinners around the world. When you start talking about that vibrancy of that lifts people dial into that very quickly.

Natalie:

Yup. Yeah, exactly. , great. Well, let’s go back to the charts and loving.

Neil:

Yes, you could. I presume you’re going to put off the Riesling now.

Natalie:

Well, if you like or Shiraz, whichever one,

Justin:

well Riesling just to finish off on that

Natalie:

and here we go, let me expand this. There’s your Riesling

Justin:

radically different expression. And , I normally, when I’m trying to explain pallet profiles, this is the one that people get straight away. If, if, if you’ve had a, a decent glass of dry Riesling in your life, you know, exactly what happens. You get this incredible spike right at the front of the acid. , and, and then quality recycling then actually tails off into quite a low intensity, but very long an elegant finish. So you get this quite radical shape as a winemaker is exactly what you’re looking for. The more pronounced you can make that spike and the longer you can make that title the, the grind of the Reese when you’re producing. , I just got him back to that aisle sushi conversation, but just is the point at which there were some foods that yes, requires still more acid to cut through.

Justin:

And I’m in Japan and Tokyo. The Somalia is they’re having this organization called the wrestling ring where they are literally formed together as a body to, to identify excellent examples of research from around the world, which they then collectively are happy to say are really great , accompaniments to classic the classic Japanese cause they, so that’s why I sort of helped him. There would be a, the not sushi comments on, but in this little chart that we’re not tasting recently that day. But if you ever wondered, you know, people sometimes say, well, what’s the difference flu shot. And then wrestling, if you draw it like this, everybody gets it.

Natalie:

Yeah. See, that’s quite different. There’s the nice roundness of Chardonnay. And then boom. And so what is that intensity? Is it the combination of, of the acidity and the, like the lemon zest, that, that sort of thing. I mean, what is the intensity here that peak there?

Justin:

Well, I think, I mean, it’s, it’s fundamentally acid itsy, but obviously within the expression of quality wine, it’s carrying as, as we food, it carries flavor, but it also carries the flavor of the wine itself. And so yeah, you get that that combination of particularly in its use of the lemon lime sort of zest characters and, and the acidity, obviously it’s common to citrus fruits in any case, but it really froze that that, that expression high in, in youth and then as the wine ages, it develops more quite interestingly. , it becomes more toasty and more honey so you get this almost so melting honey on toast character, which, which fleshes out the back. And in fact, in fact lessens the intensity of the, of the spike does shift over time. But in youth, which is personally how I actually liked my race slings, I like them really young, more radical the better as far as preference goes. , so in you get much more of this acute start and then this lovely long subtle finish.

Natalie:

And what would the long finish mean for you again, if we can, I know what you’re getting at, but how can we put it in concrete terms for people who are trying to get what that means?

Justin:

Well, I mean more often than not, it’s a case of one I’ve swallowed the wine for how long after I had finished tasting it. Can I actually recall and still taste the flavor and that can go, you know, sometimes two seconds later and it’s no longer in your memory. , and sometimes you can be talking about it and five minutes later, you can still recall how the flavor affected you, because it has that intensity and that complex, that engages your mind so much. And as we, we talked off right at the beginning about how memory is memory. So the more, more flavor you got and the more engaging those flavors are at a very subconscious level, your brain, he’s very actively squirreling stuff away. And it’ll do that. If there is stuff that’s were away, if there’s nothing there, it doesn’t remember anything,

Natalie:

right. It’s why as our childhood memories, we remember those that have the most emotional import, like the good and the bad, because they got wired in Laden in with the emotions. And as you know, we both know smell is the only sense that ties directly to memory in the brain and why Proust starts a remembrance of things lost or time passed with that Madeleine. It’s not the taste, it’s the smell that brings back the whole 13, 17 voles or whatever

Justin:

Justin’s memory of, of both being in a dark place with the smell of a car tire. About six, you certainly had to be loud by associate smells like with this bracelet. I’ve done it again. Recently, I went to a Thai restaurant and my wife’s ordering spicy sort of dishes grabbed them all of the Riesling and the acidities just cutting through that spice. And it’s just such a great food wine mix. And then another one that I did was, again, it was in Canada. I was in Vancouver at this stage, but I remember I was with about 10 20 songs. And we were going through the wines, beautiful dive. We would be in the water in Vancouver and that kind of the race lane. And we were all given like three oysters, each three fresh horses with a squeeze of lemon. And I just said, guys and girls, I’m not gonna say anything cause that’s perfect. Work out how wonderful back one food, wine matches again. And they were just lifting each other. They were just talking to each other and lifting each other. Yeah.

Natalie:

Yeah. And you’re right back there with that memory, the flavor. , great. So let us carry on with the sheriffs.

Justin:

I think what we’ll do is we’ll open the Shiraz as well.

Natalie:

We’ll taste it and then we’ll chart it. Yeah.

Justin:

In this time that we’re living in is covert world we’re living in and we’re all serving each other. And that, which has been amazing, cause that has kept us connected. But Neil and I are doing a lot, particularly with North America, we’re doing these, I tie him tasting and I’m finding when we finish, I’d just like to kick on for the after.

Natalie:

No, it’s, you’re, you’re having the breakfast of champions here. We should do B pairings with breakfast cereals because it’s 8:00 AM your time. 6:00 PM. My time when we’re recording this, it’s like you guys have stamina, but you’d rather go have a nap. I’m sure. After any,

Justin:

making it, making an effort.

Natalie:

Yeah. Putting in a good effort. Good show. So tell, tell us about this Shiraz. So also clear Valley, of course,

Justin:

it’s, it’s a lot, I mean, we’re going to look at the Shiraz and then actually come back onto the cabinet as we started, but the sheer S as as the the hero variety of Australian wine it’s, it is hugely important to us and it’s it’s a Oh, again, a wine that sort of explains itself to the pallet wet. When you start to think about it in the terms that we talked about, the reason it does live in Australia is because it’s extremely tolerant to different climate for growing and, and the warmer climates. It expresses itself in a more licorice, top intensity in a cooler climate it’ll express itself more in, in spices and pepper and it loves feet.

Justin:

And the reason it can do the job is because the thing that most people don’t realize in Shiraz is the acidity of the sits in the back of the line. It is actually that high acid, grape variety, so much flavor going on and such a lovely velvety Tennant when it’s right. But you don’t know for sure as sort of sits behind it, it’s sort of cloak of other of other things, but in the flavor itself, if you, if you stop and as we professionally tend to do stop and think about taste rather than just drink it and enjoy it, then, then the CDC it has this very, very important role to play in keeping all of that voluptuous generosity in check. , so that’s there’s, there is the Shiraz charter, and it’s actually somewhat similar to the shop. My picture is that AIDS rock sort of shape up frogs, lots of generosity, lots of velvety sands and softness and an engagement going on.

Justin:

, and then at the back you get this quite definite sort of firmness of both Botanic finished, but also particularly acid, which just runs in the background and really just sort of keeps a check on what’s going on with, with how all those flavors are sort of flooding, flooding your mind and flooding your palette. So I love Shiraz from around Australia and from around the world, because it does have this incredible versatility. And the interesting thing is in the really cool climate, you have to watch the Shiraz. I work with it quite carefully so that it doesn’t over dominate the wine. , and that brings us to Clare and it plays a real trick because if you just grow your fruits, let it go. And I like your wine, and don’t worry too much about how it’s ending up. You can end up with quite a salad twist on the, on the profile, cause that acid can actually step forward. It’s definitely more assertive than, than you find in place Vale.

Justin:

So you have to work carefully to make sure that that acid doesn’t dominate the pilot. Wow. I didn’t think of Shiraz with the acidity in the back, but I can definitely taste it now that I’m focused on it. You know, I think what is it? There’s, there’s more astronauts in the world and in masters of wine. So it’s quite, that was a gift from China that just fell out the acidity thing. I’m getting Berry intensity there. And then when you talk about just those soft palette, but then the acidity makes sense. Cause you’ve got all that there in abundance, you got a winner fruits. We always talk about blackberries, right? Well, if you think about black bodies, they’re incredibly acidic. , and it’s, it’s the same thing, loads and loads of gushing bursting, right? Juicy fruits, but at the back was this really quite clipped.

Natalie:

Awesome. It’s true. I love that. And I love how you’re breaking it down. , you know, it’s, it’s precise yet, not overly technical. And so, and, but I just love the plushness. It’s like, you know, big Blackberry satin pillows as well. Just the texture, the voluptuousness of it.

Justin:

Yeah. And I’d also add with ours because there was certainly a phase where our philosophy to winemaking in the Shiraz we were producing. It was really under pressure because the world was demanding the masculine 10 on all this stuff out of Australian Shiraz and weight remained very true. Our philosophy. We wanted that old world elegance. There’s still a lot of elegance in that wine. And I think it’s, yeah, a wonderful example of what [inaudible] quality region Australian Shiraz can be tastings with different particularly French wine makers. And the French will be all is listed. I cannot do Australian Shiraz is too big and then I’ll work them through one of our Shiraz and I’ll go, wow, you’ve just reintroduce me to Australian Shiraz. And there’s a, there’s a definite element of elegance and refinement to clay that was metal elevation delivers and all those sorts of things,

Natalie:

the elegance like, because I, I do like that term, but again, making that concrete, it’s kind of that it’s not overblown fruit and the acidity is holding in check the, the wine. So it doesn’t become flabby just the way the Oak is doing that for the Chardonnay. So it’s that counter posing factions or whatever. I don’t know, but

Justin:

quite a trick when you’ve got something so innately big, you get that balance. , it’s quite quite a challenge in wine makers. You know, they, they, they get right to leave , uploaded for when they get it right. Because getting the balance right. Makes the perfect drinking.

Natalie:

Absolutely. Well, it’s like a novel too. I’m working on my third book, but you know, it’s, it’s like the count people like contrast, they don’t want all like happy, happy, happy, or even sad, sad, sad, the back and forth, the thrust and Parry. And I think that’s what we want. That’s what keeps life interesting. Right. It’s just not like, all right. It’s, it’s the contrast that interesting.

Justin:

I’ve had wine dinners where, and they sounded lovely. Cause people will open up to, you know, you’ve got that dangerous, a little bit of knowledge that you said interesting and people want to know more and they’re like, how do I get better at this? You know? And I sort of say, well, the obvious one is you’ve got to keep drinking.

Justin:

The other one is which I’ve done throughout my career. Like I’ll, I’ll when I was trying to get better at paint Overwatch. For example, I remember I was trying to really get up because we’ve got such a new world Shiraz pallets in Australia at times. And I just spent a year just drinking paint on a wall and I just drank, Hey Noah from all around the world and whatever. And bit by bit by bit, I was just starting to dial in and dissect what it was. And, and I think you can do that with Australian. Shareaza be a very happy year in your life. Just getting out cooler climate, that warmer climate Shiraz and what people are doing with Oak and vibrant acidity. And I agree with you people, I want to keep it fresh. And I, and I, but it’s, it’s a real, you know, your wine, you want journey. It’s such a journey throughout your life and it’s just every time you do another course or you’re drinking out of water, you go to another wine, Oh God, I’ve just got so much to learn about this

Natalie:

because that’s another counterpoint too. And it makes you realize what you don’t know and all the rest of it. And, but that’s, that’s what makes it interesting. Absolutely.

Justin:

Yeah. That actually gets triggered another one, that those wind stories, that journey of yours and, you know, under law Bruce Carroll is obviously famous in the wine world. , now Justin enormous, Bruce was a part of the Australia’s first families of wine, which we belong to. , and Bruce Hood, Justin was doing this [inaudible] and I’m out of the blue reception phone. Is that as possible for you? And Justin opens this parcel and there’s two bottles of seriously good ground, pretty burgundy. And a note from Bruce saying, if you’re on the journey, you really should go. And it’s like, Oh my God, this has just been a whole lot of money on, on Justin’s education. And I sat there waiting for him to invite me to dinner and be with not worthy. I will say my journey and my wife and I enjoyed them immensely.

Natalie:

Great, good education. Yeah. Well, let’s not forget their Cabernet this one. And I’ll, I’ll also go back to the chart again, just to take a look at that, to refresh our memory here

Justin:

and what I would add Neil, speak to it in a minute. But with Kevin, I saw a video. If my father’s still alive and kicking your dad walked in and cutting selves, there would be small amounts of blood would come out of him. But a lot of Lebanese, we are a family. When we first plotted those videos, I think it was 230 ICOs. He was predominantly cabin beyond in the late sixties. And at that point, the family had the biggest planting of Cabernet Sauvignon in the Southern MSP. So we, we really went into Cabernet Sauvignon. Again, if dad was given a choice of picking anyone on anyone that’s anywhere in the world, I would guarantee you pick a Cabernet and he’d want a Cabernet with minim four to five years of age. He loves Cabernet with a little bit of age.

Natalie:

All right. So not Shiraz, but Cabernet. Interesting. Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah. I mean the whole title is unlike field stories. It’s the Cabernet store. Those are these. So Mike Greg Academy. So I feel,

Natalie:

and what is the, I just get a hint of mint, I think. , yeah, where’s that come from? Well, I hear lots of theories, eucalyptus trees, the barrier.

Justin:

So I’m going to jp in Nao. We’ll go technical if he wants to, but it’s eucalyptus. And I have found over the years with us, our calves pick up the eucalyptus more than the shreds. I always find in my younger brother, he’s the general manager of production down in the Valley. And it’s a simple story that he had to put windbreaks in trees in around the Vidiots. And he picked grey gs because he got a bit a tree United. He could have built a hedge out of me, but you picked grey gums. So you’ve actually got a lot of these gray gum trees around our vignettes. So yeah. Yeah.

Justin:

Excellent. I won’t go too technical eucalyptus because I don’t know the answer. I find it fascinating paradox. , and, and the science isn’t isn’t in on what causes this, there is definitely a relationship between proximity of eucalyptus two vineyards and that’s within particularly that have yeah. Cooler climates. , so, so how that exactly works. I’m I’m, I’m absolutely sure it’s not going in through the soil through the fine. , there’s obviously eucalyptus all is very fall us out, which is the the essence of why we have bushfires. but but so those volatile oils in a hot day, 35, 40 degrees Celsius in the class we’ll we’ll become volts airborne and therefore we’ll set along the fruits. , so that, that would say, okay, well, you can see that coming across then in the harvest, the crop into the winery. But if that’s, so then why does doesn’t recycling and sheer as in sharp,

Natalie:

right. Also have it. Yeah. And somebody I interviewed said AirWatch, they were talking about air war as opposed to terroir the floating oils and different things. But yeah, you think that it would impact all of the grapes equally, but you’re right. It’s definitely on County. I did not get it on the Shiraz.

Justin:

No, it’s quite definitely a captain, I think. And it may be that because Cabernet has this elements to its flavor profile. It may be that, that it just a little bit like acid C with spices in your food. It may just be that, that combination you, that expression. I really don’t know. , we find it, it’s a, it’s an echo in the background of our capitalizing player, where if you go to Coonawarra, it’s a, it’s a far greater parts of the others. Definitely. , elements of the compensation as well. Or this, this one I mentioned, I think right up the front, I always think of a Napa Cabernet. , with Clare in play, you do get the cooling effect of the Mmm. The diagonal shift is great. , so the hot days cold nights really works for maintaining the structure and the Capitola as we showed on the chart and needs that from expression.

Justin:

But you also need it to be ripe. So in places like Clare and Napa, you have these lovely, warm days where, when, when, when the vines do get going, they get going in, in spades and you get this beautiful ripening. The hangs on is long. So you’re getting tanning ripening as well as flavor ripening. And you ended up with this firm, but ripe tannin. And then I see it as a cast, like a beautiful, very generous slaver, right at the front. And then as the wine matures, if we get this one a year or two, it starts to become sort of chocolates and coffee sort of like in its nature, which, which just sort of builds beautifully with, we use French Oak in the maturation. Well, we were using American Oak for the Shiraz, which gives more of that toasty coconut character in the cabinet we’re using French, which is more, Oh, that sort of classic tobacco and see that. So it’s like, so all of these flavors come together, but yeah, that child, you just flicked up really says it to me, how it, how it is with you start with this tenant and just a fraction of those of a, of a second before your brain says, I don’t like that.

Justin:

John’s also a classic Kevin sometimes gets referred to as the doughnut wine. It goes, there’s a hole in the middle. I can go a little bit missing in the middle. Good, Kevin, I, that does not happen. So, and I do agree. I think we lifted our mid palate. [inaudible] I think it’s five minutes to, I is helping with that, but again, beautiful use of high quality French Oak is coming into play in the mid palate and then Kevin I’s length, length, length, and it’s the Shiraz had, you know, I went with Dali, it had the velvet, you know, it had that silver happening there where this is just, this is Katherine Hepburn. And this is, to me, this is the elegance he’s really coming in. And it’s, it’s funny in Australia cause we drink a lot of Shiraz and we love our Shiraz and we do it very well. But then when you’re in a Kevin I family or a family who loves cat, you come back to cab and you still like, why am I not drinking more? But it’s the elegance that always drags me and a great food wine.

Natalie:

And I have to agree with you. It’s very Sean Connery

Justin:

[inaudible]

Natalie:

so what would you pair with this wine, this Cabernet?

Justin:

So I’m going to jump straight in, just got lab. And when we do it, um at wand is around the welding invariably and I never misses and look, there’s lots of, there’s all sorts of things, but yeah, when you do it with lamb, Australian land broad across Canada, when I’ve done the dinners over the last decade, someone’s gone and made the effort, get that lamb. And it’s, I really do seem to work so well together.

Natalie:

Is it the tannin and the juicy fattiness of the meat? Like one,

Justin:

I certainly think that that, that juicy fatty nature as a meat, hasn’t got a lot to do with it. It’s effectively absorbing and marrying into those, those structural elements, the assets and the tenants. And then, you know, it, depending on how you’ve cooked, the lamb roasted or slightly pan fries. So you’ve got, if you’ve got a bit of Browning on the outside Mmm Rosemary and all of those married together beautifully with the actual, a wine flavors themselves, it’s a, that’s a marriage is a marriage and it’s a subtle, the flat plate. When I go to shreds, I tend to go straight back to it because they’re both bigger. They’re more intense on the palate, both of them. And I can, I can match up with each other, whereas land just as that step back is capitalized that stepped back from the shore ads I can speak to each other.

Justin:

Vegetarian is out better. we’ve been honestly eating our way through most of the food groups that we have at home. , we did a it was a vegetarian eight pound based through soccer , at home literally last week. , nice sort of wintry dish or baked. And, and, and it was obviously the cream, the sort of the white green source that runs through that. But also there was absolutely I’m sort of fried up a movie and broken into it and then realizing I found so beautiful with that. So it works for the vegetarians as well.

Natalie:

My goodness, that sounds like a good breakfast for the two of you. This is, Oh my gosh. I can’t believe we’re already past the hour. , and I thought maybe 45 minutes, maybe half an hour. , but this is great. You guys, well, I I’m sure. you, you have some work to do over there. , but this has been a great conversation just to wrap up because I didn’t really get to some of these trends because we were just, I love the conversation. What’s the situation right now with the wildfires. I know that the Clare wasn’t affected too much, but what’s the situation. What can we expect perhaps from other regions? Will they have an impact on the wines of what’s going on with that?

Justin:

, it’s obviously been a, a real wake up call for the world, I thought with the whole issue of climate change and the tipping point , on, on what happens when things do get out of balance. , and yeah, I don’t think any of us would like to live sort of summer. , we experienced at the beginning of this year, it’s been an interesting year around really so far. So you’re quite right. I mean, the fires themselves affected between one, 4% of your strike and , they, so most parts of the country was it directly impacted. , and Clare was certainly not subject to the fires, although we got them. So the Adelaide Hills where we do have some fruits, we don’t own vineyards and the certainly drove fruit from that. And so for us, it was that region that we’re particularly concerned with.

Justin:

, and not because of loss of vineyards. I don’t believe any of our growers actually physically lost their vines, but the smug hangs heavy in the air. And in a Bush fire, you know, we were talking about that. You commit to this character getting onto grape skin as well. If you’d gone past the horizon, when the, when the grapes go into that final softening of lightning phase, if you get smoke in the vignette of that state, the skins are very poorest and those flavors of the smoke getting into the schemes and into the fruits. So we, we have had an impact in terms of fruits, basically unavailable crops harvested in some cases. , so you probably will find at [inaudible] it’ll be available because not everybody was impacted, but, but the, the net effect is, is that some people have not made the wines and therefore the total available for people wanting to try to buy a bottle from the Adelaide Hills, won’t be as, as easy to come by. , however whether it’s there or Beechworth, or the Hunter Valley you know, if, if you are in a position as a, as a wine drinker in California and you see those wines on the shelves, please buy them because you need some cash to help rebuild vineyards.

Justin:

So , I dunno if that answers your question, but it gain a dramatic experience for them.

Natalie:

Yeah, I’m sure it, and I know it’s not your personal experience, so that’s why we didn’t go into it in depth, but are to a large extent, are the fires now contained and

Justin:

no idea now? So the fires, the worst, the worst, the worst of it were, was back in January sort of thing. So our January, 2020 is like the year you almost want to put a line through, it was January and February. Then I came back to work in February. Then we wrote, we went straight into covert and overt, and now black lives matters is, is on our doorstep at the moment. And that’s been really hard. I, it was so funny last night I was watching the news and there was a little, a 14 year old boy was lost in the Australian Bush. And they found him last night. He’d been in the Bush the two days for 48 hours and it’s winter now. So the nights are really calm. And I just sat there last night. Good grief. I was watching that. So I thought if that little kid, it doesn’t make it that we’ll just, that’ll be it for me, but the kids are alive and well, that’s a great story.

Natalie:

, you know I agree like just all that we’ve been through, but, you know, and not to be simplistic about it, but thank goodness we do still have wine to bring us together. Even if it is on zoom tastings, like we’re doing right now, it is the, I think the drink of conversation, communion and connection and let’s hope for better rest of 2020 and onwards to 2021.

Justin:

So that’s a beautiful sight outside in my family is the great oceans of the world may divide us the great wines of the world, bringing us all together.

Natalie:

Lovely

Justin:

very often.

Natalie:

Well, let’s, let’s raise a toast gentlemen, then here’s the here’s to a good finish long finish, a good finish in 2020. And this has been terrific. I’ve so enjoyed chatting with you both.

Justin:

Brilliant. Thanks for your time.

Natalie:

You’re here. So yeah.

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